Discontinued.

iCade · April 11, 2012

=)

Sassy Romano · April 11, 2012

I would expect we all have. One item I bought more recently was just several shades of tone off and very over exposed compared with the delivered product.

The response I got was that it depended on my windlight settings. Except that my windlight settings are the default and viewing it at default windlight/midday was where it revealed that the picture was either exceedingly photoshopped or *their* windlight settings were so soft and light that it was a complete distortion.

No apology, no offer of any compensation, nothing. There's no way it could have been made to look like the picture.

As a merchant, I take my pictures using default windlight and midday. It might not be the most flattering but i'm making product shots, not artwork in that sense and i'm going to work with defaults, not some dreamy setting that nobody else uses.

As a customer, the merchant I illustrate here has no more business of mine, that's the only option really, such is the amount of dysfunctional selling that goes on here.

Luc Starsider · April 11, 2012

Isn't Photoshopping basically a fact of life these days?

I guess all you can do is spread the word (within the TOS, of course ), bring the fact up with the seller, and then take your money elswhere to spend it.

- Luc -

Ariel Vuissent · April 11, 2012

As a customer, if you bought off marketplace, you can leave a negative review. Unfortunately, that's about it, other than spreading the word to your friends. If you have a blog, you can also write about it there. You might also be able to report the item for being "not as advertised," but I don't know if that would work out well - you got the item, you got the all the pieces (I assume), it just didn't look the way it should have according to the image you saw. And again, I think this is pretty much for marketplace purchases, so if you bought inworld, I don't think there's much you can do.

There's been some recent discussion over a particular (women's) shoe creator who seems to do the same thing - she takes images of her shoes using a different 3D program, then photoshops the shoe/foot on the leg of an SL avatar. It looks much better on this outside modelling program than it actually does inworld, so you really don't get what you pay for. Live and learn; the level of dishonesty in SL is sad, but really no worse than it is in RL. It's irritating, certainly, but I generally leave a negative review and move on. If I purchased inworld, I just delete the item from inventory, make a mental note to never shop from that store again, and move on.

I haven't seen any clothing stores with demos, other than for mesh clothing. There might be a couple, but I haven't seen them.

Toysoldier Thor · April 11, 2012

iCade wrote:

I have been thinking about making this topic for days now, and now that I have been personally affected by this shady practise I decided to speak up. Now I do not have the delusion of getting my L back but I might as well raise my voice on this topic.

Shameless photoshopping to make products look amazing in the MP/on Vendors while they look FAR less good in the client.

I have read this time and time again in product reviews, not just one person, but a lot reviewing an outfit saying the Preview picture was photoshopped to hell and back, colors are off, textures look flat and so on. Arrogantly enough I figured this couldn't happen to me as I have used Paint Shop Pro for almost 10 years now for graphics, textures, layouts and so on. I thought I had a pretty good eye for it. Boy was I wrong.

Generally speaking, the outfit I saw in the market place looked beautiful. Sexy white top with a gold trim, lovely jeans with a vague, scaly design and a nice pair of shoes. What did I end up getting? A barely textured top, the gold trim was a muddly yellow, the pants were equally flat and the shoes didn't fit nor could be resized. The ONLY thing that was like the preview picture was the cut of the clothes.

Edit: To clarify, this isn't a viewer issue, I had 3 different friends check out the MP listing of the product and then check me out in game IN that outfit. They all were shocked at the difference.

I feel deceived as a customer, and ashamed as a creator. Where is the line drawn? Are these shady practises even allowed? Where can I report this?

It's one thing your (general you to those who do this) clothing looks like crap, but photoshopping it to make it look amazing is lower than low. The time you spent on photoshop you could of spent to actually MAKE your outfit look that amazing!

Now today I have spent an hour going through the catalog, reading low star outfit reviews that had more than 20 reviews on them. The number of products that seem to be bait and switch is either going up, or it's already stupidly high without me having realised it.

I am speaking about clothing mainly as in most stores you unfortunately do not get to demo them. That's why from now on I will have to shop at stores that LET you demo clothes.

Have you ever fallen for this?

How do you feel about it?

What actions should I take as a deceived customer..and quite angry merchant?

Well although it sure does sound underhanded and deceptive that they use photoshop to enhance the actual image of the clothing etc. that they are selling in MP.....

lets put this in perspective into the RL.....

Ever see how absolutely perfect and delicious and mouth watering A&W or BurgerKing burger looks on TV? Every layer perfectly positioned with freshly sliced veggies and fluffy bun (PS this is not just them but all fast food TV commercials). Then you run to the nearest BurgerKing and ask for that perfect Whopper...... unwrap it to eat it and.....

WHERE DID THE FRESHLY CUT VEGGIES GO? Why is the bun flattened and not fresh and fluffy? Why cant I see these layers like on the TV?

OMG... yes.... those darn Marketing ppl bamboozled me! They perfectly built that burger and positioned it in a nice setting and heck they even used non eatable food coatings like varnishes and sprays to make the burger look like a runway model of burgers...... Ohh and photoshop to touch up what they didnt fake out in the photo-shoot.

Speak of runway models? why do they and the clothes look that much better in the magazones? Blemish free? Opps.... marketing with that crazy evil photoshop.

And how bout that Dodge Ram or Chevy or Ford pickup truck that hits all those under-carriage / suspension destroying bumps in slow motion? Amazingly tough trucks. Funny thing is if I try hitting that same bump with my new Ford truck, I would be towed away to the mechanic 10 seconds later.

Sadly .... some call it false advertising.... some call it MARKETING

Spica Inventor · April 11, 2012

If it was up to me, blantently false pictoral advertising of products would result in a big fat fine or banning even. ;-)

Drake1 Nightfire · April 11, 2012

i have had this happen as well..it pissed me off.

As a merchant i take pics inworld in-front of a prim with an image on it.. if i decide to i add text. i do not do ANYTHING to the image. no color change, touch ups, NOTHING! the pics that have 4 different angles and shiny text, shadowing and what not on one image are ridiculous. we can have 8 images per item.. take multiple pics.

Technically you could Flag the item as an incorrect image.

Rose Mackie · April 11, 2012

My thoughts exactly!

When I complained that a white outfit looked dirty and sooty, the merchant said "Well, here are the windlight settings I used." and "Well, its one of my best sellers." As if that should be reason enough to keep my complaints to myself.

Its so "Emperor's New Clothes"!

Even if I set my windlight settings to suit a particular outfit, to everyone without that setting I still looked like I'd just walked through a pile of ashes.

And no ~ no apology, no money back. All I could do was use the MP review to warn others.

Though I initially liked the "look" of this merchant's items, I wll not purchase from her again. I don't like to support arrogance with my hard-earned money. I also will go further than just not recommending this merchant. I will share my experience when people ask "Where can I get such-and-so?"

As consumers, it really is "Buyer Beware."

As a merchant, I try to look at all my products under the best possible graphics settings AND at the lowest. Because not every one has great systems or knows how to change settings.

And I want my customers to get the best I can deliver.

Its a matter of pride over profit.

Zanara Zenovka · April 11, 2012

There's a flagging category "Item not as advertised".

You can also leave a review as mentioned.

These forums have their own rules, but there's actually nothing in the TOS preventing you from informing others inworld or elsewhere, unless it could be construed as harrassment.

Czari Zenovka · April 11, 2012

Ariel Vuissent wrote:

I haven't seen any clothing stores with demos, other than for mesh clothing. There might be a couple, but I haven't seen them.

I haven't seen many clothing store demos, but I have seen (and used) some. Now my mind is blanking on the name of one of the stores but it sells mostly upscale, period-style dresses. The shopping area in Avilion doesn't have demos, but they have their capes/robes displayed in 3D so you can "step into" it and get a pretty good idea.

I'm fortunate it sounds like that I have not personally purchased any bait & switch clothes, but I tend to stay with a handful of designers that I have purchased from for years.

This is where offering a freebie outfit comes in handy. I know there has been a lot of debate on this issue in past years, but if I am not familiar with a designer, am interested in their clothes and they offer a freebie, the free item gives me a good idea of the quality of their clothes. Ditto for hunt items.

Toysoldier Thor · April 11, 2012

Czari Zenovka wrote:

Ariel Vuissent wrote:

I haven't seen any clothing stores with demos, other than for mesh clothing. There might be a couple, but I haven't seen them.

I haven't seen many clothing store demos, but I have seen (and used) some. Now my mind is blanking on the name of one of the stores but it sells mostly upscale, period-style dresses. The shopping area in Avilion doesn't have demos, but they have their capes/robes displayed in 3D so you can "step into" it and get a pretty good idea.

I'm fortunate it sounds like that I have not personally purchased any bait & switch clothes, but I tend to stay with a handful of designers that I have purchased from for years.

This is where offering a freebie outfit comes in handy. I know there has been a lot of debate on this issue in past years, but if I am not familiar with a designer, am interested in their clothes and they offer a freebie, the free item gives me a good idea of the quality of their clothes. Ditto for hunt items.

I completely agree with Czari on how a customer can protect themselves from the universal strategies of product marketing often putting their products in the best light possible. You wont win the battle of making all product manufacturers take marketing pictures that are 100% in the perfect view and perspective as you might want to see the product. They are trying to sell their product and they will try to put it in the best perspective possible.

But what a customer can do who wants to protect themselves from possible misleading promotional material is not buy a product purely based on the photos they see on MP. Go inworld and see if the merchant has demo products to try on or if they have the product on display in the store. THEN you can actually see the product as you would see it.

The scenario is always..... Buyer Beware and as Czari said, this situation has an easy solution.... get the demo, ask for a demo, let the merchant show you etc. If they cant or dont want to show you.... tell them Good Bye and walk away.

The question of exactly where and when product promotionaly material crosses the line of false advertising is blurry and subjective. As I pointed out in my past posting, many people can say that most TV commercials are false advertising when they use food varnishes and photoshop and props etc to make the product they sell at the store look like its 10 times better. BUT to me, its black and white false advertising if a company adds functions or components or features to a product that it does not actually sell.

But to saying that its false advertising when a clothing merchant models their outfit and uses all the AVAILABLE features that the general SL community has available to them as well to make their product look as good as possible.... that is not false advertising. Photoshopping blenishes out of the outfit that were actually in the outfit they sell... that to me is false advertising.

But again... the solution is easy for the consumer..... if you want to be completely safe and assured of what you are buying before you buy... dont buy products on SL MP until you see the real demo inworld.

iCade · April 11, 2012

I did of course leave a 1 Star Rating and explained exactly why I had given it. When I hit sent my review was IMMEDIATELY hidden. Merchants should not be able to do so. I cannot even warn others of making the same mistake.

The seller has not responded to my curteous IM's & Notecard.

I was also automatically added to their stupid update group. I did not get the chance to opt in, I was simply added and I went ot their in game store to somehow opt out...couldn't figure out how.

Customers should be protected from this shady practise, more and more people do it.

I have recently become a merchant, and the only thing I add to my product is a shadow around it to make it pop from the background texture. I do not smooth lines, I do not use any strange windlight settings in the main picture. I did use windlights in the EXTRA pictures for my skyglobe to show the costumer that it looks good in other windlight settings than the default, I certainly would never make a product that only looks good in ONE windlight setting.

In short, there should be a section added to the TOS that forbids the heavy photoshopping. Adding a background and writing to make your product picture stand out from the rest in the catalog is great, I love it, but tinkering with the product itself and photoshopping it until it's barely recogniseable from what you get in game is just a no go.

Also comparing the SL MP to RL is comparing apples and oranges. Yes it could be marketing, but my specific example is clothing. When gold ends up being dirty yellow, when TEXTURES and up FLAT and NON TEXTURED on the actual product, that is NOT even legal in RL. When they sell you pants with a reptile pattern and you end up with simply white pants that have muddy, sooty spots on them then that is NOT market. That's quite frankly, criminal.

ETA: This is NOT about windlight settings. This is about products being enhanced to make the customer believed they are textured in a certain way when they are FLAT white, and the 'texture' is sooty, grey spot they try to sell as reptile texture...

Would it be possible to take a picture of me in game with the outfit, and then cut out part of the MP ad so no names are shown? You will not believe the difference....

Argus Collingwood · April 11, 2012

Sassy Romano wrote:

I would expect we all have. One item I bought more recently was just several shades of tone off and very over exposed compared with the delivered product.

The response I got was that it depended on my windlight settings. Except that my windlight settings are the default and viewing it at default windlight/midday was where it revealed that the picture was either exceedingly photoshopped or *their* windlight settings were so soft and light that it was a complete distortion.

No apology, no offer of any compensation, nothing. There's no way it could have been made to look like the picture.

As a merchant, I take my pictures using default windlight and midday. It might not be the most flattering but i'm making product shots, not artwork in that sense and i'm going to work with defaults, not some dreamy setting that nobody else uses.

As a customer, the merchant I illustrate here has no more business of mine, that's the only option really, such is the amount of dysfunctional selling that goes on here.

I am even more pedestrian and shoot at mid-day without any windlight. I do shoot high rez against a plain background I remove and the paste into a template I have that shows sides and the rear of the item. Most bad reviews I have are for non-delivery and I re-deliver in-world with an im asking if they got the item.[of course the majority of them never respond and do not know even how to change a review] The reviews of others items that I read that bug me most are for great items that have super pictures and the skirts are sculpts and of course will not flow/flex and the customers did not read the description and complain about it. Oh if only merchants got notified of reviews a lot of good merchant/customer relationships might be built.

Luc Starsider · April 11, 2012

iCade wrote:

I did of course leave a 1 Star Rating and explained exactly why I had given it. When I hit sent my review was IMMEDIATELY hidden. Merchants should not be able to do so. I cannot even warn others of making the same mistake.

Huh? I didn't think merchants *could* change or hide any of the reviews. What would be the point of them if they could?

iCade wrote:

I was also automatically added to their stupid update group. I did not get the chance to opt in, I was simply added and I went ot their in game store to somehow opt out...couldn't figure out how.

To me, this is even more annoying than photoshopped ads.

iCade wrote:

Would it be possible to take a picture of me in game with the outfit, and then cut out part of the MP ad so no names are shown? You will not believe the difference....

Ironically, sure, by using Photoshop. A bit of magic with the rubber stamp, and you're all set.

- Luc -

Amethyst Jetaime · April 11, 2012

I think no one should photoshop their actual merchandise in sales pictures. Backgrounds are ok, and fixing things such as hair going through a body on a particular pose are ok, but the items themselves should never be touched and the picture should be taken under default daytime lighting not a special windlight setting

.Yes it may be marketing to some and done in RL, but the difference is that you can go and see the merchandise before buying it in RL, but you can't do that here with most things unless a demo is offered or you see it modeled.

I would however leave a very negative review, and flag the item as not as advertised because in truth it wasn't. You can also spread the word among your friends in SL, as well as outside SL

Unless the merchant refunds your money, doubt that you have any other recourse other than never buying anything from that merchant again.

Toysoldier Thor · April 11, 2012