Pamela Galli Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Camron Solo wrote: Please point me to where I claim she is the victim. You forget that she mentioned that she is a merchant herself. As many responses and views that others have already gave their input everyone took the thread differently. No matter what was the example of the purchased item here if you buy one thing and the next person buys the same thing, you may be tickled with it, while the other person is not so pleased with it. Its called an opinion. We all have one. Until someone makes you forum police, don't tell others what to or not to come here with. Maybe you never have expierienced what the topic orignally was, buying something and getting home to realize it is not really how it seemed in the picture. That's all that seem to of happened here, she bought something, she brought the topic to attention to see what others have experienced. Before she deleted the original post she mentioned that it was a topic she had thought about bringing up for a while, iirc. If you ever buy something and this is the case by all means come here and post about it and show your example and you'll see how it feels to have your own post turned around on you. Pointing here: "That was taken out of context and blown out of porportion to where she started to be attacked." In two years you only made 7 posts before your first one in this thread -- you seem to feel very passionately about it. LOL! I did not tell anyone what to say here; what I said is that the one star review was wrong and should be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Not to mention that the same outfit was purchased by another person in this thread who used a different windlight setting and the outfit was EXACTLY as the photo showed in the merchants listing. So, iCade's accusation that the photo was heavily photoshopped was exactly wrong. No other person here has "attacked" her. We've proven that her accusation about the outfit she purchased is false and, in calling it "Bait & Switch," is libelous. There was no bait & switch here. I posted the definition of that phenomenon and this is CLEARLY not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 mtwtfss71 wrote: Thank you Czari! These are great tips as to how I can also offer demos of my outfits. Now I know what my weekend will entail... make that the next 4 weekends. On topic, tho, I feel strongly about making sure my customers are satisfied with their purchases so any way that I can make them feel secure in buying from me, I'm willing to make the effort. I think that's true of most merchants. You're welcome I'm thinking of ways I can offer a demo of my household items to customers as well. For me this weekend will be one of thinking and working on old ad photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanara Zenovka Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 LOL Infrequent posters are so good at memorising deleted text... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Before anyone gets the wrong idea here, Cameron Solo is NOT me, I do not know her, I have never spoken to her in game. But I thank her nontheless for speaking up. English is not my mother language, I am german, and while my english is quite good it's not good enough most of the time to voice my thoughts in a cohesive way. That elates me even after learning this language for half my life. Furthermore I would like to know how I attacked Toy? That wasn't my intention, and if he does feel like I personally attacked him, then I am sorry for that. Also, and I am not naming names here, it's strange how someone who posts in other threads being quite confrontational to others has the nerve to post here to accuse me of doing the same. Pot calling the kettle I believe is the right term. I know you strive on drama, but seriously, get off your high horse, you accuse me when you're not better. I have been doing a lot of reading since I joined and was not the least bit surprised when you started posting here. Never saw you post in a positive way, which is a shame. Other than that, yes, I have aknowledged that what struck me as heavy photoshopping was only medium photoshopping and the rest was windlights. I have not been on SL for longer than 4 month, and have not fiddled with the windlight settings in SL, I have been using default, and all the clothes I have bought looked just fine in default, so I did make the foolish assumption that the advert was photoshopped. It however, as explained, does not change anything about my product rating. I personally would not have bought this product if I had known it meant I and everyone viewing me would have to use a certain windlight. It is my right as a consumer to complain about this and give an appropiate rating, no? Isn't that what reviews are for? You can argue about this all you want, but it'll be redundant due to different opinions which neither of us will budge from. Next on the list, I also did not know that bait and switch was a legal term, as a non english native I have heard it online so much, and believed it was a figure of speech. I still do not see it as a legal term, after so many years of thinking of it in a different way, the LITERAL way, as in I was baited with an amazing product, when I bought it it was not what I expected. That to me is bait and switch, and I am not sure where the legalities come in. Again, Cameron is not me nor do I know her, just because she's the only one actually bothering to stop people from making accusatations instead of staying on topic doesn't mean she's my alt. My only alt that I use to test products with is JinxyHeart. Thank you for reading this wall of text. Edit: To adress Marcus: Multiple people HAVE agreed that the advert was photoshopped to an extend, so you saying it wasn't is not fair. If you compare the two pictures you will see both contrast and saturation have been tinkered with to make the outfit appear whiter than it is. I will not be wearing this outfit because I cannot wear it like my others, and as such the 1 star rating someone is so compassionate about having changed, stays. I have wasted Linden on a product I believed would come as advertised, like I said so many times before, had I known that I would have spent my L elsewhere. Also, a direct impact to that 1 star rating is the fact that the merchant has neither responded to my curteous IM's nor my Notecard. I have given them ample time of over 48 hours to give me a life sign. I neither received a response, nor was taken off their automatic update list. In combination of the two the 1 star rating is deserved in my opinion. Whether everyone agrees with it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think what some posters have a problem with is that you posted the merchant's ad photo. I could do a search for white sequin club outfit and probably find that. Many people use SL and the marketplace. Thousands of people have seen that ad and know exactly what merchant you accused. I would personally take those photos down, especially since you have finally seen that you were mistaken. I would also change the MP rating. But that''s just me... About windlight- depending on what viewer you use, they are super easy and there are many presets to choose from. On the SL viewer, I believe you get to them through the "world" menu and in many of the third party viewers there is a drop dowm (up, actually) on the lower right of the screen where you can choose windlight settings, LOD and other graphic settings quickly. I NEVER play in SL with the default daylight. It looks horrible lol. That being said though, even if everyone goes around with their viewer set to daylight-noon, there will be huge differences in how things look from one viewer to another. I hate the SL viewer because no matter what setting I use, everything looks darker to me, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Rose - I did take the pictures down, and yes, it was foolish of me to post it, but then again what was even more foolish was to ask in this thread if doing this is alright and someone responded with "Yes as long as no names are shown" I stupidly enough believed that and went ahead. Definitely a lesson learned. And please do read the last paragraph on the last page, and then tell me why you think I should change my rating. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 <<Multiple people HAVE agreed that the advert was photoshopped to an extend, so you saying it wasn't is not fair. If you compare the two pictures you will see both contrast and saturation have been tinkered with to make the outfit appear whiter than it is>> Ok, so was the rest of your post just a bunch of crap to get people off your back? You claimed that you now see that the merchant did not heavily photoshop the photos, but in your edit, you are still claiming that she had to have. Seriously! Go tinker with windlight for 5 minutes and then try to insist that there is no way that this merchant acheived the look of the photo in an SL viewer. Come on. You just admitted that you were new to SL, but somehow you know more about it than the many seasoned users who are telling you otherwise? I really hate these drama threads, but you are not helping your case. If you don't like the outfit, don't wear it. Let's have some perspective here. The outfit probably cost no more than $2. Most people waste a lot more than that every day on coffee, soda, cigs, etc. It's just not something to be having a big deal about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I don't know if it is against TOS or not, but that wouldn't change the fact that those clothes are easliy identifiable by the ad photo. Thanks for taking them down, seems like the nicer thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Rose- Obviously there is a difference between HEAVILY photoshopped and Photoshopped, no? I never said it wasn't photoshopped at all. I merely took back the statement that instead of heavily it was some photoshopped where saturation and contrast was concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 iCade wrote: Furthermore I would like to know how I attacked Toy? That wasn't my intention, and if he does feel like I personally attacked him, then I am sorry for that. I have no idea how Toy feels or felt; I was not speaking for him. As the person who posted that, it was simply my opinion of how the "tone" of your response toward him struck me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 If you are referring to this, I do feel a bit responsible for it and apologise. I understood your question, and replied, from a technical point of view. I didn't anticipate the responses to you posting the pictures, I have to say. - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Czari - Ah I see and cannot fault you for that, I have been told I sound quite harsh in my responses when I don't even intend to. I was told a long time ago that it is because of language barriers, and my cultural background. German is quite a brash language, and we don't sugarcoat nearly as much as the english speaking folks. Most of the time I struggle with getting my point across in another language and forget to soft tone my writing, but then again it is always very easy to read into something and I am guilty of doing it, too every now and then. But then I just sit back, and re-read it again laters. It's so easy to read something into writing without hearing the tone of voice used. Edit: Luc - Yes, that was what I was referring to. And no I don't blame you, I blame myself for being so stupid and taking the response at face value and going ahead posting the examples. Last thing I expected then was to be accused of slandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well Icade you have caused me to reconsider some of my photos of landscaping creations. (I won't go into who I think is right or wrong in this long episode as I'm afraid my eyes start to glaze over when I try to read it so merely scanned parts...but I imagine as in most conflicts of this type you and your accusers are both right and wrong..lol). Anyway, I have this autumn pond that looks so great when I turn on a windlight setting that displays these dramatic thunderstorm looking clouds behind it. Unfortunately the setting that allows those amazing clouds turns the rocks a very strange color. If someone was shopping for a pond they wanted to integrate into their landscape they could buy the pond thinking it would match the rock on their land but when sitting it out in 'typical' light find the match was waaay off. I do wonder if in such a case I should put a disclaimer on those photos like 'taken with Windlight setting 52 that turns the rock a bit more orange...see other pics for a more typical lighting scenario'....or something. And should I refund if someone bought the pond without this disclaimer and found the rocks don't match their land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Luna - I knowingly left out those products you can preview in the game. I have spent more time at your sim than I'd ever admit lol. There you can go have a look, decide for yourself whether you like it or not. But with outfits, you only have what the seller offers you, you don't get to see the item in game most of the time and you have to buy in good faith. What I bought turned out to be far from flattering in the windlight I use and believe a lot of people use, it is afterall the default. That is why I felt deceived going by the advert. A disclaimer would be great, but as has been said before, where to draw the line then? I for once will buy my clothing at stores I know now, or have visited on hunts and enjoyed the freebies. No more blind buying for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: iCade wrote: Furthermore I would like to know how I attacked Toy? That wasn't my intention, and if he does feel like I personally attacked him, then I am sorry for that. I have no idea how Toy feels or felt; I was not speaking for him. As the person who posted that, it was simply my opinion of how the "tone" of your response toward him struck me. iCade might have been a bit agressive in her response to my postings but I have thick skin so if she attacked me - I didnt take it as an attack as much as she was attacking my comments which is fine by me. I was strongly in disagreement (as my very first posts in this thread expressed) with what some people refer to bait-and-switch and/or false advertising. iCade was all upset right in the beginning how she felt she got swindled by a merchant that deceived her because of MP product photography. What I was trying to prove to icade was that while some call it false advertising, others would just call it creative license by a creator/seller of a product (both in RL and SL) to promote their products in the best light possible. Its not a black and white line in many cases and if you ask any person their opinion - you will get various answers. For that reason I was also disagreeing with iCase that a new TOS is need to adress this "problem" on MP. The good part is that she did more to prove my point that I could have ever done. I was moreso concerned about how iCade handled the whole situation regarding how she tried to prove her point by showing the merchant's product and exposing this merchant. THAT BEING SAID.... I think iCade has more than learned a valuable lesson about posting in forums and respecting the rights and reputation of others before destroying their reputation. I think we can all agree to put the discussion of what iCade did wrong behind us. She has taken corrective actions for what she did wrong in the thread. That is good. If the thread wants to keep talking in general about the topic of "ethics in brand marketing" and what is acceptable vs deceptive brand advertising ... that is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasher Oh Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Who needs Persil when you can have Windlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Luna Bliss wrote: Well Icade you have caused me to reconsider some of my photos of landscaping creations. (I won't go into who I think is right or wrong in this long episode as I'm afraid my eyes start to glaze over when I try to read it so merely scanned parts...but I imagine as in most conflicts of this type you and your accusers are both right and wrong..lol). Anyway, I have this autumn pond that looks so great when I turn on a windlight setting that displays these dramatic thunderstorm looking clouds behind it. Unfortunately the setting that allows those amazing clouds turns the rocks a very strange color. If someone was shopping for a pond they wanted to integrate into their landscape they could buy the pond thinking it would match the rock on their land but when sitting it out in 'typical' light find the match was waaay off. I do wonder if in such a case I should put a disclaimer on those photos like 'taken with Windlight setting 52 that turns the rock a bit more orange...see other pics for a more typical lighting scenario'....or something. And should I refund if someone bought the pond without this disclaimer and found the rocks don't match their land. Howdy, Miss Luna! What you could do is take several photos of your pond in those different settings and include them in the 8 we are allowed in a listing. That would be cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 OMG, Lasher! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ROFL! That is magnificient! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Vella Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 rofl...thanks Lasher..I enjoyed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 iCade wrote: Czari - Ah I see and cannot fault you for that, I have been told I sound quite harsh in my responses when I don't even intend to. I was told a long time ago that it is because of language barriers, and my cultural background. German is quite a brash language, and we don't sugarcoat nearly as much as the english speaking folks. Most of the time I struggle with getting my point across in another language and forget to soft tone my writing, but then again it is always very easy to read into something and I am guilty of doing it, too every now and then. But then I just sit back, and re-read it again laters. It's so easy to read something into writing without hearing the tone of voice used. Text without seeing a person's facial expressions or hearing the tone of their voice can be a very difficult medium. Enter emoticons...heh. But even then the real intent of a speaker/texter may not always be relayed. Mix into that all the various countries/cultures represented in SL and misunderstandings are bound to happen. I am always impressed with people who speak more than one language and it seems to be more typical of non-Americans. Your English is excellent, iCade. The slang terms and expressions are so different amongst different countries/languages so I can totally understand some frustration there. I appreciate your response and as the saying goes - "It's all good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Hey Toy! I knew you didn't need me defending you. I was just listing a few examples in an earlier post and you were one that sprang to mind. Totally agree with your post and I will say that this thread has made me give more thought to my own advertising copy (I don't touch up my products; just stirred me to think outside the box a bit) as well as how I can provide demos of my items where it would be possible to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 If you want to believe it is photoshopped, that is your business. Those results certainly are acheivable using photoshop. I just wish you would understand that those results are also acheivable in-game, using any graphical viewer available. I do not think it is right to accuse a merchant when you refuse to understand the standard features of the viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Luna, I see where you are coming from too. I use windlight settings while taking photos. I use windlight settings at all times lol. I don't think it is flasely representing a product when that look is easily acheivable in-game, but I agree that we should make sure our photos are honest and represent our product realistically. I was think about default-noon versus windlight for photos after reading this thread- she did get people thinking My conclusion though is that if the photos had been taken at default-noon, someone who uses windlight could be disappointed with the outfit. We cannot control how everyone sees SL, there are too many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemaery Lorefield Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 LOL that's cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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