The End Of An Era and what was a wonderful, enlightened virtual world....

[CaerolleClaudel]

13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'd replace "sane" with "who's learned QWERTY". That's almost all current typists, so DVORAK is effectively dead.

Here's another way to look at it...

If Sholes had used the DVORAK keyboard layout in the first commercially successful typewriter, would anyone have proposed QWERTY as an improvement six decades later?

History is littered with choices that were right at the time but look wrong in retrospect. As we grab the chalk from the tray to draw the next step in the long arc of human history, you can understand our wistfulness over the phrase "clean slate".

IIRC, the choice for QWERTY was *because* it was awful? That typists were going so fast with whatever keyboard that was in place earlier were getting a lot of jammed striker thingies so they designed QWERTY so that the most common letter combinations would not get tangles? I could be wrong and am too lazy to look it up.

OTOH, I am so used to QWERTY that I would never learn a better layout unless forced to. Which, yeah, I guess is a common mode of operation in SL, so perhaps that is the place to implement such a layout?

[stevey87]

started in 2005 and couldn't be happier that they're at least trying to improve things

still runs perfectly fine fully maxed, get a new computer bro 

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

IIRC, the choice for QWERTY was *because* it was awful? That typists were going so fast with whatever keyboard that was in place earlier were getting a lot of jammed striker thingies so they designed QWERTY so that the most common letter combinations would not get tangles? I could be wrong and am too lazy to look it up.

OTOH, I am so used to QWERTY that I would never learn a better layout unless forced to. Which, yeah, I guess is a common mode of operation in SL, so perhaps that is the place to implement such a layout?

Sholes invented the first commercially successful typewriter in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, half an hour away from me. I've seen the historical market commemorating his invention many times. I grew up hearing the story you told, but I don't think we know the true reasoning behind the QWERTY layout.

There's a lot to be said for leveraging the experience of the masses. QWERTY it is.

Edited August 11 by Madelaine McMasters

[Scylla Rhiadra]

38 minutes ago, stevey87 said:

get a new computer bro 

🙄

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'd replace "sane" with "who's learned QWERTY". That's almost all current typists, so DVORAK is effectively dead.

Here's another way to look at it...

If Sholes had used the DVORAK keyboard layout in the first commercially successful typewriter, would anyone have proposed QWERTY as an improvement six decades later?

History is littered with choices that were right at the time but look wrong in retrospect. As we grab the chalk from the tray to draw the next step in the long arc of human history, you can understand our wistfulness over the phrase "clean slate".

Its my understanding that QWERTY wasn’t an improvement, it was designed to slow typists down, so in effect it was the worst possible layout as far as speed was concerned, but it was intended to reduce locking up the keys when typing fast.

[Ksenia Elcano]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I didn't need weird un-pronouncable collections of letters and numbers when I chose the name "Zalificent", I didn't need a "display name" either., but I've seen enough people with Legacy Last Names who used insane first names, with numbers and random letters, and failed attempts at "ascii art" names.

I thought Zalificent was probably inspired by the Disney character Maleficient.

[Coffee Pancake]

26 minutes ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

I thought Zalificent was probably inspired by the Disney character Maleficient.

She would never!!!

[Rowan Amore]

36 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Its my understanding that QWERTY wasn’t an improvement, it was designed to slow typists down, so in effect it was the worst possible layout as far as speed was concerned, but it was intended to reduce locking up the keys when typing fast.

It was actually developed alongside teletypists who were typing out Morse code messages. The placement of keys was designed to speed up this process and not slow it down.  

ETA..if it were to stop the jamming of commonly used letter combinations, then E wouldn't be next to R.  

Edited August 12 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It was actually developed alongside teletypists who were typing out Morse code messages. The placement of keys was designed to speed up this process and not slow it down.  

ETA..if it were to stop the jamming of commonly used letter combinations, then E wouldn't be next to R.  

I also read before that it was to prevent jamming so, could be a myth that made it into popular culture. Anyone can Google it and see different answers, too..

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I also read before that it was to prevent jamming so, could be a myth that made it into popular culture. Anyone can Google it and see different answers, too..

Where is the fun in that? Personally I prefer wild speculation and urban legends.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I also read before that it was to prevent jamming so, could be a myth that made it into popular culture. Anyone can Google it and see different answers, too..

More pertinent is that QWERTY was designed for use with the LATIN alphabet, and thus, multi-lingual, while that DVORAK stuff was designed for typing Murican.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

6 hours ago, stevey87 said:

get a new computer bro 

No.

[SandorWren]

6 hours ago, stevey87 said:

started in 2005 and couldn't be happier that they're at least trying to improve things

still runs perfectly fine fully maxed, get a new computer bro 

I DO have to assume you've upgraded your hardware since then. And you have high end hardware. I do, and even then I have run into the occasional issue.

[Orwar]

10 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If Sholes had used the DVORAK keyboard layout in the first commercially successful typewriter, would anyone have proposed QWERTY as an improvement six decades later?

   It's not as if QWERTY is random though, it was designed with the very specific purpose of keeping keyboards in mechanical typewriters from jamming. Not by 'slowing people down through being complicated and weird', but rather through arranging the keys in such a way that the letters most often used in conjunction wouldn't have their arms crossed whilst typing; it was in fact designed for speed. 

   So, yes - for typewriters using arms (which was the most common type throughout the 20th century), QWERTY would be an improvement to DVORAK; but I don't think it'd take people six decades to go 'hey, let's rearrange the keys so they don't jam every three seconds'. Alternatively they would have looked for a different mechanical solution to move away from the arms, but then perhaps they would find that pens are in fact a better alternative altogether to these jam-prone writing machines, and Sholes' machine mightn't have taken off at all to begin with; but all forms of alternative history is of course entirely speculative.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I also read before that it was to prevent jamming so, could be a myth that made it into popular culture. Anyone can Google it and see different answers, too..

Where is the fun in that? Personally I prefer wild speculation and urban legends.

That's why I didn't Google it this time! I couldn't bear "proving" anyone wrong!

[Madelaine McMasters]

39 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   It's not as if QWERTY is random though, it was designed with the very specific purpose of keeping keyboards in mechanical typewriters from jamming. Not by 'slowing people down through being complicated and weird', but rather through arranging the keys in such a way that the letters most often used in conjunction wouldn't have their arms crossed whilst typing; it was in fact designed for speed. 

   So, yes - for typewriters using arms (which was the most common type throughout the 20th century), QWERTY would be an improvement to DVORAK; but I don't think it'd take people six decades to go 'hey, let's rearrange the keys so they don't jam every three seconds'. Alternatively they would have looked for a different mechanical solution to move away from the arms, but then perhaps they would find that pens are in fact a better alternative altogether to these jam-prone writing machines, and Sholes' machine mightn't have taken off at all to begin with; but all forms of alternative history is of course entirely speculative.

I’m well aware of the theories for QWERTY’s layout, and that the limitations of mechanical typewriters makes DVORAK a likely non-starter. That’s not my point. At this point in the development of man-machine interfaces, DVORAK is a more efficient keyboard layout than QWERTY for those who’ve no familiarity with either, just as pie menus are more efficient and less error prone than linear.

I can probably pick almost any human development, including the English alphabet and language, and imagine a superior alternative. But those alternatives might require a very different history, leading to a population of people with the necessary experience to reveal that advantage. Still, there are changes worth making. We drive cars now, despite the ridicule some early auto owners endured from the equestrian crowd. If not for the Wubi method for keyboard input, which survived early ridicule, China might not be the technology superpower it is today.

There are people in the world who, because of their own particular experiences, will favor the “unusual”. Henry loves his pie menus and there are DVORAK keyboard lovers. I’m happy to admit that the research shows both methods to be more efficient than their far more popular alternatives, for people who can/will take advantage of them. That’s not most of us, but it does most of us no good to believe that, just because we are familiar with a thing, it must be the best.

Several years ago, I relearned how to tie my shoes because I discovered I’d been doing it “wrong” since childhood. My shoes come untied less often now, and the loops of my lace bows fall to the left/right rather than front/back. I tie the laces the old way when I know I’m going to double-knot, because the loop direction rotates 90 degrees with each tie.

Observations of other people’s laces have revealed that I’m not the only one who’s been doing it “wrong”. When I mention this to friends whose lace loops fall fore/aft, they look at me like I’m daft. That’s not a judgment I care to refute. Deriding people for their menu/keyboard/computer/etc choices misses the reality that we all travel different paths, and therefore have different preferences. Those preferences can sometimes be sub optimal.

One of my preferences is to wonder about my preferences.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

37 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

including the English alphabet and language, and imagine a superior alternative

That's what people like Carnegie and his friends said over a century ago, when they proposed that Muricans should spell "Colour" as "koler".

 

Quote

The press on both sides of the Atlantic had a field day with the "reform spelling crusade", and editorials and cartoons abounded. The Louisville Courier-Journal published an article which stated: "Nuthing escapes Mr. Rucevelt. No subject is tu hi fr him to takl, nor tu lo for him to notis. He makes tretis without the consent of the Senit." The Baltimore Sun joked: "How will he spell his own name? Will he make it 'Rusevelt' or will he get down to the fact and spell it 'Butt-in-sky'?" One editorial summed it up this way: "This is 2 mutch."[

 

Too much "chasing efficiency" can be  in-efficient.

 

Edited August 12 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

At this point in the development of man-machine interfaces, DVORAK is a more efficient keyboard layout than QWERTY for those who’ve no familiarity with either, just as pie menus are more efficient and less error prone than linear.

Is this similar to how Esperanto is a better language, and we should all be using it?

[Love Zhaoying]

Regarding the Thread Title, "The End of an Era, and what was a wonderful, enlightened virtual world.."

Funny how people "almost always" miss the "good old days".  "Nostalgia" used to be considered an actual disease.

Sure, the "good old days" in Second Life had advantages, but depending on the era we more primitive avatars, more griefers, more ugly builds, more chaos, and "flying *****es" in the news.  

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Funny how people "almost always" miss the "good old days"

Rose tinted Arc Welders safety visors make even the worst of the past seem idyllic, apparently.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Personally I think most of what made "the good old days" good wasn't the capabilities of the platform or performance of the viewer, it was the number of people and the overall culture of SL that made it more enjoyable.

You'll often hear people talk about how there are so few places to go or things to do in SL but it's not that the places suddenly vanished, it was the people that they would interact with when they went there who slowly drifted away.  You can still find sims to roleplay on or various games to play and places to explore, but they lose their appeal when you're the only one there (and, of course, once nobody visits at all they are soon gone entirely).

[JeromFranzic]

20 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said:

This is very true. Last names are classy. Right now in SL we have an endless supply of stunning names like:

A$$Master69
LoverBoi_4_U
ღPrincessBeefstickღ
DaddyDom13
KittySomthing
ღSömthingMöönÖrLunåღ
щшьготрнв6н78н9пмзпцуіепуцфкепуйфкп
NoobyNewb1234

 

------edit-------

I do like Am3liaoxxx3389. It's completely unpronounceable, could also be the some sort of mundane or exotic research chemical, and yet it still manages to sound sggy with a stylistic triple-X. It even gets bonus points for not wrapping it's self in ghanis (ღ) like  a certain princess did.

Lol... this is why I decided to go with a regular name for myself. At first, didn't understand why I had to use Resident at the end of my name. These days, you can meet me in world (and in most of Open Sim, Myst Online, etc) as Jerralyn Franzic. But this is SL so I can put up with the strange monikers for names! There is a fairly long story behind my choice as Jerralyn. Maybe I'll wax poetic on it sometime but I have to get ready for dialysis watching duty soon. 

[AmeliaJ08]

6 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

At first, didn't understand why I had to use Resident at the end of my name

When I signed up (2017) I didn't even know that Resident was added to my name, I just thought it was asking for a username.

I didn't really learn that I even had 'Resident' as a last name until I was setting up a security orb and found out how that works, for most users it's pretty much invisible since you don't see it in your profile etc.

I find the whole last names thing pretty awkward, I've had to explain it to a few newer users who don't really understand it either. I've also balked at the incredible cost of getting a last name, I'm a committed enough resident but no way am I paying to get a 'real' last name.

I guess if I ever made a new account I might be a bit less... usernamey about my name but meh, with display names it doesn't really seem that critical.

Edited August 12 by AmeliaJ08

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That's why I didn't Google it this time! I couldn't bear "proving" anyone wrong!

“There is no right or wrong, there is only reality and irreality, each of which have infinite dimensions.”

[Rolig Loon]

3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Several years ago, I relearned how to tie my shoes because I discovered I’d been doing it “wrong” since childhood. My shoes come untied less often now, and the loops of my lace bows fall to the left/right rather than front/back. I tie the laces the old way when I know I’m going to double-knot, because the loop direction rotates 90 degrees with each tie.

Thank you, Maddy. When you first pointed this out a few (?) years ago, I gave it a try. I took the change on as a challenge to see how hard it would be to change a daily ritual I had spent a lifetime with. It felt awkward at first, but it really does make more sense than the way I was taught as a kid.