The new ToS and something I don't think was taken into consideration by LL.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

The fact that you had to use the word 'sex' automatically takes things into that realm. This is why someone might think it would be quite weird to promote 'adult' issues in a G rated area. But I guess it's okay if it's LGBTQ topics.

That would mean that children would also be an 'adult' issue, because they're also dependent on having sex.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Yet of course the subject and result that might appeal to boys that come to Second Life, and considering "Boys Town" vs "Boy Scouts", there is room for mistakes and some users going where they probably shouldn't into an area that deals with sexual stuff - be it definitions, preference or discussion.

Theresa Tennyson murmurs through her fingers, "Not as much difference as you might think..."

[Quartz Mole]

I think that the discussion of the Boystown stand at the Welcome Hub has gone as far as it usefully can for this thread (and I'm not sure it's ever been on topic for it).  

If anyone feels they need to discuss the matter further, please start a new thread about it elsewhere and I'll make sure the Moles in charge of the Welcome Hub get to see it.     But please don't take it any further in this thread.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 5/5/2024 at 4:58 PM, MissSweetViolet said:

Seems like an awfully drastic thing to force the body maker of any body that might be misused

hm, I remember a announcement by Zoobies when she found out her toddlers were being used in evil ways/// She completely stopped making them. I think she only does animesh kids now. Not at all a kid avatar, but I reckon the majority of body makers do not want their product used in such a way and would comply.

 

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

The fact that you had to use the word 'sex' automatically takes things into that realm. This is why someone might think it would be quite weird to promote 'adult' issues in a G rated area. But I guess it's okay if it's LGBTQ topics.

My point, if you'd bother to parse the above, is that sexual activity -- i.e., sex in the sense of the "having sex" -- is NOT a necessary part of the definitions that together comprise the identities associated with the LGBTQ+ community.

Having a same "sex" attraction, which arguably is, relates not to the ACT of having sex, but to biological sex or gender. In other words, to an identity, not an activity. When you fill out a questionaire and it asks you to indicate your sex or gender, do you think it's asking you if you engage in sex???

The person obsessed with sexuality in this conversation isn't me, it's you.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

26 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

I think that the discussion of the Boystown stand at the Welcome Hub has gone as far as it usefully can for this thread (and I'm not sure it's ever been on topic for it).  

If anyone feels they need to discuss the matter further, please start a new thread about it elsewhere and I'll make sure the Moles in charge of the Welcome Hub get to see it.     But please don't take it any further in this thread.

Apologies Quartz. I didn't see this before replying.

[Rowan Amore]

46 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

When you fill out a questionaire and it asks you to indicate your sex or gender, do you think it's asking you if you engage in sex???

Oh, so my answering Yes all these years has been wrong?

On a more serious note, has anyone dropped a note on any body or skin makers asking if they are aware of the changes and if so, are they thinking about solutions?

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

On a more serious note, has anyone dropped a note on any body or skin makers asking if they are aware of the changes and if so, are they thinking about solutions?

So far .. all thats been confirmed is that TD and Tweenster will be updating. Although, for tweenster... most users are on BOM skins at this point and not those hard coded into or supplied with the body. So individual skin makers are going to need to step up too.

AVIL seem AWOL. Rebirth are utterly doomed and need to relaunch their entire product. I've asked for Senra. No expectation of "adult bodies" that can be made late teen, they all have geometry in the groin that prohibits compliance without a new mesh.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 I've asked for Senra. No expectation of "adult bodies" that can be made late teen, they all have geometry in the groin that prohibits compliance without a new mesh.

So LL can't even comply with the same rules they expect their users to follow? 

I know the Senra avatars are expected to be adult bodies, but it wouldn't hurt for newbies to get bodies that don't have genitalia.

[Jaylinbridges]

5 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

know the Senra avatars are expected to be adult bodies, but it wouldn't hurt for newbies to get bodies that don't have genitalia

I tried to make a Senra body look like an adult.  They can easily pass for teenagers.  The only thing that saves Senra is the head, which everyone replaces unless they want to be Pee Wee Herman.

[Jaylinbridges]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:57 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Just to extend a little what Coffee has said, you can also be gay and celibate -- just as one can be a celibate heterosexual. Indeed, one of the "flavours" of LGBTQ+ is asexual.

Sure the Real World is loaded with Gay virgins.  But this is SL, where you might just have a better chance of losing your virginity.  That world we cannot discuss is on Adult regions, so no teenagers or tweens will be allowed there.  Isn't Boyz II Men a band?

Edited May 8 by Jaylinbridges

[Jaylinbridges]

6 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Senra avatars are expected to be adult bodies, but it wouldn't hurt for newbies to get bodies that don't have genitalia.

Blake has no genitalia.  Very few male bodies have any genitalia.  The few that do are always hideable with a hud.

Let me remind the women of SL that there are males in SL too, even if you have never seen one naked.

Edited May 8 by Jaylinbridges

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Let me remind the women of SL that there are males in SL too

There's a fix for that...

 

"By infusing the target with concentrated Femergy this device can randomly activate and rearrange the latent DNA within the subject, while also removing any unwanted ‘Y’ chromosomes at the same time. This process can produce many thousands of possible appearances in your target subject."

[BilliJo Aldrin]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:09 PM, MissSweetViolet said:

They don't have genital by default, in fact someone came into Toddleedoo's Discord once asking for them, and the creator said she did not, and would not ever make them. No mainstream kid avatar to my knowledge includes them [none of the ones I've used or demo'ed do], there isn't even mesh definition, it would literally be like looking at a Barbie doll.

I don't even know where someone would find some for a kid avatar unless some are just using regular ones, which I can't imaging working. I've been a part time kid avatar for nearly 3 years of my 5 years in SL, I've never seen a shop selling them.

Aeros, which apparently can still be found on mp, can be shrunk small enough to be suitable size wise for a boy... just saying

[Qie Niangao]

12 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I've asked for Senra. No expectation of "adult bodies" that can be made late teen, they all have geometry in the groin that prohibits compliance without a new mesh.

I hope this means they don't like the way the rig deforms when it's scaled way down.

[Kathlen Onyx]

On 5/6/2024 at 12:44 PM, VanVox said:

The majority of people who roleplay as children in SL are already compliant and on board with making sure they follow the TOS to the letter. The small percentage that engage in activities that are against the TOS will unfortunately always find a loophole. 

Can you tell me how you KNOW that the majority of people who RP as children are compliant? Did you check some website that keeps track of that or do you personally know all the Child avi's in SL? 

In reality you really have NO clue whether the majority of Child Avi's are compliant or not and if the percentage that engage in ****y is small.

Whether or not it's a large or small percentage, LL is changing the policy and making all child avi's wear modesty panels.  Is it fair to those that are following the rules, nope.

Edited May 8 by Kathlen Onyx

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Can you tell me how you KNOW that the majority of people who RP as children are compliant? Did you check some website that keeps track of that or do you personally know all the Child avi's in SL? 

In reality you really have NO clue whether the majority of Child Avi's are compliant or not and if the percentage that engage in ****y is small.

Obviously LL thinks otherwise. So much so they are changing how Child avi's are seen in SL.

I just love it when people pull stuff out of their backside with nothing to support it.

Okay class, can you find a problem with this argument?

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Okay class, can you find a problem with this argument?

Enlighten me.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Enlighten me.

Some of us have tried but you insist on not having any of it.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I hope this means they don't like the way the rig deforms when it's scaled way down.

Child avatars shouldn't need deformers anyway!

[Qie Niangao]

5 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Can you tell me how you KNOW that the majority of people who RP as children are compliant? Did you check some website that keeps track of that or do you personally know all the Child avi's in SL? 

This made me realize the Lab is in a tough situation. One relevant ratio is a step removed from the share of child avatars who are compliant, and that ratio means everything to how the Lab's actions are perceived: What share of the child avatars known by most users are compliant?

It is absolutely true that I have no idea of compliance rates across the total SL population of child avatars. Of all the people I know in SL, I'm aware of only two of them being child avatars. Pretty sure they're the two most well-known child avatars in SL (brother and sister, most readers of this thread will know them too—many in real life—and trust them implicitly to comply with any Lab rules). Point is, these well known, high-contribution residents skew the perceived distribution of child avatar compliance.

Obviously they're not the only "good ones" but you know what? The "bad" ones hide! You have to go out of your way to encounter them. I gather it's not difficult, the right search terms will find where they hang out, but (one hopes) most SL users don't go looking for them. I've been in SL for many years and have never once been aware of meeting a bad child avatar but there could be lots of them and I'd never know about it. It's an organic sampling bias.

But there's another bias we're all acutely aware of, a different ratio that's very important to the Lab: as far at the media knows, every child avatar in SL is evil incarnate. That's an organic sampling bias too ("if it bleeds it leads"), now helped along by a disgruntled "journalist" hack collective with a revealing nom de plume. The Lab is forced to address the situation as perceived through that biased sample, for the sake of their business and our platform.

[Qie Niangao]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Child avatars shouldn't need deformers anyway!

Umm… just in case you're not (seen to be) joking: I meant the way the mesh deforms when the shape sliders are adjusted.

[Theresa Tennyson]

17 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Enlighten me.

You personally have "no clue" what Linden Lab thinks. They may agree with the proposition that the majority of child avatars are compliant but feel that the issues caused by the minority are enough of a problem to change the procedures. In other words, you criticized a statement made without support by making your own statement with no support, meaning that all your criticisms also apply to yourself.

[VanVox]

41 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Can you tell me how you KNOW that the majority of people who RP as children are compliant? Did you check some website that keeps track of that or do you personally know all the Child avi's in SL? 

While I cannot be certain about every individual's activities, from my extensive involvement with the kid community in Second Life for 15 years, I did not personally encounter anyone acting against the Terms of Service. During that time, I spent a lot of time roleplaying on family-friendly sims, attended various roleplay schools and events geared for the community. 

While you raise a fair point that it's difficult to know for certain, based on my long involvement in this community, my observation has been that individuals engaging in activities violating the Terms of Service generally do not actively participate in the G-rated kid community spaces and events. From what I've witnessed, those engaging in such inappropriate behavior tend to operate in separate, distinct environments from the typical spaces frequented by the majority of child roleplayers. However, you're correct that without monitoring every individual, there is no way to state this categorically.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You personally have "no clue" what Linden Lab thinks. They may agree with the proposition that the majority of child avatars are compliant but feel that the issues caused by the minority are enough of a problem to change the procedures. In other words, you criticized a statement made without support by making your own statement with no support, meaning that all your criticisms also apply to yourself.

Good point. I'll edit my post.