Innula Zenovka Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I'm a bit puzzled about the new rules concerning skins for child avatars, I have to admit. If a child avatar, fully clothed, is wearing alpha layers under their clothes (or has parts of their mesh bodies alphaed out by their HUD), then how is anyone going to know what their skin is like? I'm not sure how Governance will react to people who go around de-rendering other people's clothes to check on what they're wearing (or not) underneath -- I'd certainly regard that as pretty creepy, stalkerish and harassing behaviour that it might be unwise to advertise -- and, in any case, if someone's wearing an alpha layer, how do you know what's underneath it? 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: If a child avatar, fully clothed, is wearing alpha layers under their clothes (or has parts of their mesh bodies alphaed out by their HUD), then how is anyone going to know what their skin is like? This is my take on it too. So long as child avatars don't wander around "naked" with at least underwear or the new required layer, nobody will know they do or don't have the new required layer. I'd bet money on this being how it turns out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: I'm a bit puzzled about the new rules concerning skins for child avatars, I have to admit. If a child avatar, fully clothed, is wearing alpha layers under their clothes (or has parts of their mesh bodies alphaed out by their HUD), then how is anyone going to know what their skin is like? I'm not sure how Governance will react to people who go around de-rendering other people's clothes to check on what they're wearing (or not) underneath -- I'd certainly regard that as pretty creepy, stalkerish and harassing behaviour that it might be unwise to advertise -- and, in any case, if someone's wearing an alpha layer, how do you know what's underneath it? As i said before: If the a++player crowd follows the rules, the ones who might try to derender their attachments will waste their time. Frustration will do the job. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I'm skipping ahead from page 75. I'll go back and get caught up, but in the mean time. I'm really concerned with determining the age of a female post puberty (probably males too but I think it's less muddy for males as onset comes on a little bit later). And considering that the onset of puberty can be as early as 8 or as late as 13 in females, and said changes typically occur over a one to two year period, give or take, it's going to be extremely difficult to actually distinguish a post pubescent woman from an adult woman. I'm of the opinion, and it's just my opinion. But determining the age of a post pubescent woman is mostly determined by behavior. And honestly, at age 16 I know I WAS doing everything I could to look much older than my age. I'm glad I don't have to investigate or determine the age of a female teenager in SL. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: I'm a bit puzzled about the new rules concerning skins for child avatars, I have to admit. If a child avatar, fully clothed, is wearing alpha layers under their clothes (or has parts of their mesh bodies alphaed out by their HUD), then how is anyone going to know what their skin is like? I'm not sure how Governance will react to people who go around de-rendering other people's clothes to check on what they're wearing (or not) underneath -- I'd certainly regard that as pretty creepy, stalkerish and harassing behaviour that it might be unwise to advertise -- and, in any case, if someone's wearing an alpha layer, how do you know what's underneath it? It's a good chance those that go hunting for AR's will more than likely be looking for easier targets like those with hidden privy bits rather than skins without a modesty layer. They may get some of those , but I'm thinking the bits are what they can scan and find much easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 43 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Well, then the a++players should do what the are held to do and no one will discover anything but a modesty layer. That´s funny, not sad. It is not funny but sad: behaviour that is rightfully frowned upon, like camming underneath a skirt or dress, becomes totally fine when it is targeting the "right" group of people. Once again putting the responsibility on the victim instead of going for the real perverts. I'm sure you also welcome adults standing infront of RL school bathrooms for gender checks. And the full-bearded man who went into a women's bathroom to show that there is a problem with men invading women's bathrooms is a fighter for women's rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted May 4 Moles Share Posted May 4 Please try to resist the temptation to allow this discussion to spread out into a wider debate about First Life culture wars issues. 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Quartz Mole said: Please try to resist the temptation to allow this discussion to spread out into a wider debate about First Life culture wars issues. What if RL is repeating itself in SL? If the echo's of RL are making waves in SL? What for would we need a second life when the stupidity and ideology from RL is taking over? When LL more and more caters and bows to those who are on a crusade against anything they can't (and don't want to) understand in RL already? 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Salyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 9 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said: But any method can actually be gotten around. The resulting body and/or skin still has to allow for BOM layers - in order to wear BOM clothing and that layer will lay on top of the modesty layer. Thus someone could create a tattoo layer that covers up the modesty stuff and provides genitals. Yes, that would be a violation and if said avatar got caught, they would be banned. But it is still possible. no, the way I was describing would be to put the opaque modesty layer above any BOM layer(s). yes, this would prevent the wearing of BOM clothing, or rather severely limit what kinds and types of BOM clothing. It would make pants or shirts look really weird, but socks, cloves, would be okay. Actual body markings like moles and freckles would work just fine as well as enhancements like dirt and stuff. As for actual utility, I guess it'd really depend the mesh clothing support for a given body how useful this solution is, but it's a solution that's can't easily be gotten around. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 hours ago, Leslie Trihey said: These are supposed to look child like? 🤔 These don't look like children to me. They don't look like humans either to me. They look like teenage cartoons. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, Minty Melody said: Hey Mink! My Little Pony avatars are adults unless they're using a foal mod or specifically say they're kids. Chibis, Dinkies, and Tinies are fine too. As for the Twi Puppy, the choice was made at the club to not allow any representations of a child regardless of species to be on the safe side (and this was way before the TOS change). Greets, Minty! I think I got it. Thanks for the clarity. It will assist me and my friend in deciding what is fine for my own adult region. Edited May 4 by MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik clarification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said: These don't look like children to me. They don't look like humans either to me. They look like teenage cartoons. They remind me of Gorillaz for some reason. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: These don't look like children to me. They don't look like humans either to me. They look like teenage cartoons. That's because they're not humans, nor are our avatars. The avatars are humanoids, but they're not humans, they're fictional digital characters we're just controlling. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: These don't look like children to me. They don't look like humans either to me. They look like teenage cartoons. It's way to curvy to be considered teenage cartoons they don't look like that to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: What if RL is repeating itself in SL? If the echo's of RL are making waves in SL? What for would we need a second life when the stupidity and ideology from RL is taking over? When LL more and more caters and bows to those who are on a crusade against anything they can't (and don't want to) understand in RL already? Explain what a modesty layer on an avatar skin has to do with ideology. If anything here has a relation to RL, then to existing international RL laws. Linden Lab does not operate in an empty space. And the more protection from crime (generating and spreading graphic display of sexualised child abuse is one) it grants, the better for the platform. Edited May 4 by Vivienne Schell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted May 4 Moles Share Posted May 4 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: What if RL is repeating itself in SL? If the echo's of RL are making waves in SL? What for would we need a second life when the stupidity and ideology from RL is taking over? When LL more and more caters and bows to those who are on a crusade against anything they can't (and don't want to) understand in RL already? From the forum guidelines Quote No Discussions Not Directly Related to Second Life: Please keep all threads relevant and directly related to Second Life and Linden Lab. Anything unrelated to Second Life is subject to moderation. This includes, but is not limited to, politics, social issues, current events, and Non-SL discussion posts (Examples such as tell me a joke, make me laugh, etc). If the thread could exist on a non-Second Life Forum, that is probably a good sign it doesn’t belong here. Note: Posts made before 7/29/2022 will be left open unless policy violations cause them to be closed. While some issues raised in this discussion might well be considered analogous to those raised in first life political and social debates, the thread must not devolve into a debate about those first life issues in themselves. The topic is the new terms of service. not who should use which bathroom in US public schools. If I had thought your post contravened the guidelines, I would have removed it. I didn't. However, if people were to take it as an opportunity to start arguing about trans rights in US public schools, those responses would be off topic, and my post was intended to remind everyone of that. Edited May 4 by Quartz Mole 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 hours ago, Leslie Trihey said: Neat, still doesn't justify your desire to see thousands of paying adult customers banned from accessing the majority of the product they pay for You're not banned and youre exaggerating. You just have to wear the new permanent undies. What's the big deal? I wear undies all the time. It's not so bad. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) Fictional digital characters can any species that doesn't mean that they can't be human. *facepalm* Edited May 4 by Wincil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Vivienne Schell said: Explain what a modesty layer on an avatar skin has to do with ideology. If anything here has a relation to RL, then to existing international RL laws. Linden Lab does not operate in an empty space. And the more protection from crime (Pedophelia is one) it grants, the better for the platform. International law does not forbid non-sexualized child nudity. It rightfully forbids pornography, but that is something different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 10 hours ago, Theresa Ravenheart said: Per the updated terms: Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. So any form of nudity is now adult content. This was also my point. Per the new terms: child avatars can not be: a) on Adult rated land, and b) in any location (regardless of rating) where nudity is present. I'm pretty sure that mean no child avatars on any nude beach, rating or family-friendliness doesn't matter if these words mean literally what they say. What'd I miss in the last 20+ pages overnight? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Wincil said: Fictional digital characters can any species what are you on about? your question makes no sense. What I am saying is that none of them are actual humans, they are fiction characters that are 3D that we are controlling. They just look like humans but they're not, they're a series of mesh created on a computer in a program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: What'd I miss in the last 20+ pages overnight? just 20+ pages more of the same from yesterday 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said: I started on the overnights 4 hours ago and still think its repetative and nothing has made me want to change my thoughhts of 40 plus pages ago. Just looking forward to that 17 yr old (child) without a modesty skin being booted from my adult venue How are you going to distinguish a 17 year old from an 18 year old? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said: You're not banned and youre exaggerating. You just have to wear the new permanent undies. What's the big deal? I wear undies all the time. It's not so bad. I, for one, thank you and applaud you for wearing underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: your question makes no sense. What I am saying is that none of them are actual humans, they are fiction characters that are 3D that we are controlling. They just look like humans but they're not, they're a series of mesh created on a computer in a program. Well some things in anime can be a exaggeration of real life thing's so the only reason it doesn't look realistic or looks fake is because it is a Exaggeration. Edited May 4 by Wincil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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