Cindy Evanier Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: good lord 74 pages ... i should stop going to bed at night to prevent so much up reading in the morning. I started on the overnights 4 hours ago and still think its repetative and nothing has made me want to change my thoughhts of 40 plus pages ago. Just looking forward to that 17 yr old (child) without a modesty skin being booted from my adult venue Edited May 4 by Cindy Evanier 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said: Just casually drop a bunch of money replacing years of content. Simple. That or hope for updates.. Hopefully those creators Sellers don't look at this as an opportunity to resell the same content for the same price because of adding some panties and pasties textures.. I would bail on those creators Sellers in a heart beat.. I could see paying a little bit, because they would have to do some things and they're in this too.. but asking full price from current customers.. That wouldn't go over well I wouldn't think.. But if they are still active, they have to do something if they still want to sell those products to new customers.. so hopefully updates just come and they care about keeping customers and just update to update. ETA: Actually I should say Sellers rather than Creators, because many times those are not one in the same. Post adjusted. Edited May 4 by Ceka Cianci 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 hour ago, brodiac90 said: And all the old content? Is the magic mesh fairy going to give me linens if I put it all under my pillow? when you could use the old content with your current skin, i'm pretty sure you can with another one with patch too.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 14 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: For the purely business minded (even if they don't like kids), there is a real market for kid avis / skins and items that meet LL's new rules and kids tend to spend all their money on one avatar rather than across many alts. I've spent over L$300,000 (whatever that is in your currency) on my avatar, mesh heads, hair, clothes, skins, shapes, acessories, toys, teddy bears, games, PG furniture etc. Over 6 years L$300 here and L$400 there adds up. you ONLY need a new skin for the current announced change ... your heads, clothes, shapes , asccessoires, toys, teddy bears, games, furniture and etc wil nót be influenced by this change 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: when you could use the old content with your current skin, i'm pretty sure you can with another one with patch too.... That is yet to be seen, it depends entirely on how LL want things implemented. If it's as simple as body creators changing the body's UV map so that areas need to be covered always stay a solid colour no matter what skin is applied, then yes, that would be a very good solution if that is possible. If it's a mesh pair of underwear that is always attached to the body (is part of the body) then that will break all content that would clip with the new layer. For example, I own hundreds of pairs of full length jeans, trousers and long shorts etc that would be broken if that were the case. If they want chest coverings too it will be even worse - most child bodies are based off the female body. and how is the creator going to differentiate between those who want to be girls and who want to be boys? Or who wants to adjust their shape.... Edited May 4 by brodiac90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 12 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I want a job as a Mole I wouldn't want to have to take the oral exam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asdrea Evergarden Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: yes, but you said 'potential" .. and that's nót a breach. Correct, because it's not us the ones to judge. Until it's confirmed as a breach, we can't say if a certain activity is a breach or not. How many times we have reported stuff we are convinced it's a breach but ends up with such account or product not being banned because it's not affected for what LL considers a breach? You can give my words the meaning you prefer to get into a pointless dialectic loop, but we all know not all reports end up in a punishment, and that's because not all reported activities are a breach and in consequence, they are no more than a potential breach from reporters eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I have to ask... If a skin is required to have a modesty patch why is it the requirement instead of just BOM underwear? both are possible to swap for something and yet this seems to be the justification behind disallowing BOM underwear. I'm probably missing something. If removal of choice is the intention though... skins are changeable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Melody Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I hope all those talking about how much they have invested in SL realize that at any time SL servers can be shut down when LL decides to just not want to put up with all this anymore. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Melody Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 One thing I would like to know is will they remove from the grid any child avatar from peoples inventory that does not meet the new TOS and other such items. They do have the ability and right to do so. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chery Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I'm wondering about the second shall not: -Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. Does this mean events that are hosted on moderate land featuring skins without a censor strip or sexy clothing will be off limits to child avatars? I know when I go to moderate land I stay pretty covered up although some of what I wear might be sheer, but I see everything hanging out in those areas .. especially in the way a good number of visitors dress. I would guess too that families that live on moderate land where the adults do the dirty might be off limits to children also? Or will it be "Honey.. we need to send little Susie to daycare today... cause it's DATE night" I'm just having my morning coffee so if it's been discussed I apologize. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chery Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 11 minutes ago, Indy Melody said: One thing I would like to know is will they remove from the grid any child avatar from peoples inventory that does not meet the new TOS and other such items. They do have the ability and right to do so. I wondered about this also, after the two months or so they could just start yanking a compiled list of bodies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asdrea Evergarden Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 11 minutes ago, Indy Melody said: One thing I would like to know is will they remove from the grid any child avatar from peoples inventory that does not meet the new TOS and other such items. They do have the ability and right to do so. I doubt it. It's impossible to track how many items against the ToS the whole community can have in their inventories. How do these items actually look? What are their names? You may be able to track the most popular ones by brand for example, but you'll leave a lot of other clothing, mods etc. from other smaller creators out of the purge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Puddles Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) @Linden Lab @Tommy Linden @Maggie Linden @Keira Linden This post is not intended to 'join in' on the arguing back and forth. This is some direct and considered feedback that I hope you will consider when updating the FAQ in the coming days. There seems to be a lot of kibitzing going on over the specific words and phrases being used in the rules, and people are poring over it for any scrap of loopholes. Some issues that need to be specifically addressed (in direct words) in the FAQ are: Regarding Modesty Panels Layers? Change uses of the word "Layer" to "Panel" or "Patch".. This is causing confusion as to whether the use of system clothing 'layers' are an acceptable alternative to having a modesty patch on the skin. Baked, they said Baked! Similarly, change usage of the phrase "Baked onto" if you do not mean to imply that Bakes-On-Mesh Layers are an acceptable solution. Perhaps a better phrase is "Rendered or painted directly on the skin's textures", if that's what you mean to imply. How much modesty, is modest enough? Are grey crotch triangles and/or nipple-cover pastie style circles acceptable, or must this be an apparent clothing item? Do 'girl presenting avatars' with fully flat chests have to have bras? Is there an apparent age point where one is and isn't required? Is a C-string style cover acceptable, or do child avatars need actual panties painted on? Are thongish panties or high-cut briefs compliant, or does everyone need knee-length boxers? What specifically must be covered? It's an uncomfortable question to ask and answer particularly from the corporate world of worries of sexual harassment, sensitivity, etc, but there must be no ambiguity here, for child avs and asset creators. Where is the line here? Regarding "Must not match the skin tone" Surprisingly there's some room for quibble here as well. "by how much" is hard to quantify.. but also 'must the patch be hard edged?" comes into play here as well. A slightly different shade of brown or tan.. technically doesn't match. Does the patch need to be hard edged like a stamp, or can it be feathered along the edges to provide a more subtle transition for situations where an edge might peek out of a swimsuit? Tintable panels? A further question is raised if the modesty panels are accomplished through use of a transparent 'hole' in the skin textures, allowing the tint-able system layer under the skin textures to show. If creators offer this on a modifiable skin, it's potentially possible for users to tint their modesty panels to match the skin. Even if not sold that way, will the creator face sanctions when a user tints their modesty panels to match their skin? Regarding "Fully Nude" This phrase in actual SL usage is extremely vague. We realize you're not regular users of the service and it's often hard to remember every way SL is used. For the pedants, "I'm wearing socks" can be interpreted by some as compliant with the idea of 'not being fully nude'. Less pedantically, there are some clear questions about the phrase. Does a worn mesh diaper comply? Does mesh panties even if the skin has genitals on it? Do BOM layer undies or a C-string comply? If an avatar strips down to nothing but a body/skin (that *IS* compliant, complete with painted-on modesty panels).. is THAT considered being nude? Do modesty panels alone constitute 'not nude? Regarding child avatar users Some folks seem to be getting the idea that this rule only applies to content creators, and that child avatar users themselves have no direct compliance requirements. I personally think it's pretty clear, but I have 18+ years of experience in reading LL's announcements. Child avatars can't be forced to personally modify their skins, because child avatars largely don't make their own skins, they buy them. The creators need to update their assets, the child avatars need to use compliant assets by June 30. This needs some clarification. Regarding "use of Moderate or Adult keywords" Will creators be notified at time of publication which keywords they've used are considered Moderate or Adult? It seems unfair to threaten content creators with expulsion from SL over keywords they may not realize are not allowed to be utilized. It may be time to put an end to the 'hidden rules' mindset. Yes, this allows certain creators to potentially abuse the situation. Those abusers can be admonished. Do not march child-avatar asset creators, trying in good faith to comply, to their doom across a hidden minefield. Example.. the word "Latex" may be understood to be one of those words. But Latex is a name for a shiny material, which may be used (for example) in the description of included material options for a diaper cover. "Cute cartoon patterned diaper cover for your Toddleedoo, available in Plastic, Rubber, and Glossy Latex finishes" .. there should be some system in place for 'you've used the wrong keyword, it's been removed' or 'you need to change that'. Edited May 4 by Honey Puddles 9 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Chery Amore said: I'm wondering about the second shall not: -Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. Does this mean events that are hosted on moderate land featuring skins without a censor strip or sexy clothing will be off limits to child avatars? I know when I go to moderate land I stay pretty covered up although some of what I wear might be sheer, but I see everything hanging out in those areas .. especially in the way a good number of visitors dress. I would guess too that families that live on moderate land where the adults do the dirty might be off limits to children also? Or will it be "Honey.. we need to send little Susie to daycare today... cause it's DATE night" I'm just having my morning coffee so if it's been discussed I apologize. I assume it's primarily aimed at "family friendly" nude beaches and the like. The FAQ say Quote our investigative process can determine accidental exposure. Again, child avatars should not be engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Melody Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) My thoughts on meeting the modesty layer requirements for the area that needs to be covered as described by this TOS change: Child avatars where the focal point of the body is on the b (on the chest), pelvis, or b_tocks Pelvis: The pelvis is the lower part of the trunk between the abdomen and the thighs B_tocks: The b_tocks are two rounded portions of the exterior anatomy of most mammals, located on the posterior of the pelvic region B (on the chest) is where I do question. Because it is normally accepted for male chest area to be exposed (child or adult). Do male child avatars need a modesty layer there also? Does there need to be a seperate consideration for female child avatars meaning those not presenting in their teens? Will they need that modesty layer there if the male child avatar does not? I am referring to ones playing younger than teens. I would think that female teens should have the front chest modesty layer. Edited May 4 by Indy Melody 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Niosaki Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 The saddest part about all this is i can just picture 1000s of people going pedo caming between the legs of kid avis to see if they have on a modesty layer to see if they can report them. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Kei Niosaki said: The saddest part about all this is i can just picture 1000s of people going pedo caming between the legs of kid avis to see if they have on a modesty layer to see if they can report them. Well, then the a++players should do what the are held to do and no one will discover anything but a modesty layer. That´s funny, not sad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 25 minutes ago, Chery Amore said: ´Does this mean events that are hosted on moderate land featuring skins without a censor strip or sexy clothing will be off limits to child avatars? Yes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chery Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: Yes. I think the addendum makes it clear though. "The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use." At least to me. So this says to me they can shop without fear on moderate land... and they can live in houses that have sex furniture on moderate land. However if mom and dad or ... whoever they invite home that is an adult wants to do the dirty the kids gotta go for awhile. I do think it's all pretty iffy either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Chery Amore said: I think the addendum makes it clear though. "The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use." At least to me. So this says to me they can shop without fear on moderate land... and they can live in houses that have sex furniture on moderate land. However if mom and dad or ... whoever they invite home that is an adult wants to do the dirty the kids gotta go for awhile. I do think it's all pretty iffy either way. "Kids" cannot be nude and what is a sex bed good for if "mom and dad" cannot go nude cause of the "kid" around, who is forbidden to be around any nudity? Well, solution is: Kick the "kid" out, do your thing and invite the "kid" back once you had one or two of these earthshattering orgasms. And bar the "kid" from sitting on any furniture which contains adult animations. You know "kids" are curious and it never is "their fault"once something goes wrong. Regarding the shopping: What the hell has a "kid" to shop for at whatever rated store which promotes nudity or anything clearly sex related? Right. Nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Chery Amore said: I think the addendum makes it clear though. "The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use." At least to me. So this says to me they can shop without fear on moderate land... and they can live in houses that have sex furniture on moderate land. However if mom and dad or ... whoever they invite home that is an adult wants to do the dirty the kids gotta go for awhile. I do think it's all pretty iffy either way. I took it the opposite ie doesn't matter if they are going to use or not, the child avi cannot be near it. 😕 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) Irony: if all this plays out a certain way, it could result in GOOD attention for LL: - False allegations are disproven as false - Changes are made to protect our community - Community comes together and 20+ yo Sl is saved - Community is safer as a result - SL is stronger from it all - Take that, evil pedos!! Edited May 4 by Love Zhaoying 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Chery Amore said: I think the addendum makes it clear though. "The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use." At least to me. So this says to me they can shop without fear on moderate land... and they can live in houses that have sex furniture on moderate land. However if mom and dad or ... whoever they invite home that is an adult wants to do the dirty the kids gotta go for awhile. I do think it's all pretty iffy either way. Is it "pretty iffy" though? I mean, maybe it's just me, but when I'm visiting friends in their homes on Bellisseria or wherever, if they want use their sex bed they don't normally invite me to stick around and watch. Participate, maybe (which would be against ToS if I were a child avatar) but not just to stick around. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chery Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: Is it "pretty iffy" though? I mean, maybe it's just me, but when I'm visiting friends in their homes on Bellisseria or wherever, if they want use their sex bed they don't normally invite me to stick around and watch. Participate, maybe (which would be against ToS if I were a child avatar) but not just to stick around. This is how I see that senerio.. usually. Then again there are all sorts of things allowed in the privacy of a home on moderate land as long as you can't view them from the outside easily. BDSM devices, graphic pictures ect. I would think it would be a case by case thing.. that's where my iffy comes in. People are expected to use their best judgement and some .. just don't. Edited May 4 by Chery Amore not enough coffee mistakes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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