So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Stephanie Misfit]

2 minutes ago, SamathaStarr said:

It's getting to be nothing but Nazi Crap, First avatars are made to be average height of 7 foot tall, then you are told if you are under that Height or of Normal Real Life Height, You can be banned for Being too child like and dressing acting adult,

I personally Know Adult film stars and models that are Only 4'10" tall, I know Tons more people in everyday work that are between 18 and 80 years of age . Mothers. Fathers. Grandmothers and Grandfathers that are not even 5 foot tall, and yet we on SL are being Judged by out Height and Shapes.

I personally dated a 22 year old woman when I was 21 , And she was barely 5'1" tall, and Was more flat chested than I was.

And yet, SL and LL is defining us by our size and shape,

 

This is just more communist Nazi Crap.

I'm only 5 foot 3 inches tall myself . 

And if I am in a club full of 7 Foot tall avatars I will look like a child next to them, And I'm being told I have to change My Avatar I worked on for months to get right, Spent Tons of Real Life money to get clothing Bodies, Hair and everything I needed to put together look that I like and is close to my RL size.

Total BS, Bigotry and Bias based on a community of Ignorance and Bigotry. 

Just another Sad, Sickening, Disgusting example of the small mindedness of The so called Modern Society .

I refuse to be Dictated to,

I am a Non Conformist , 

And I will not change who I am for your Bigoted Standards.

Height has nothing to do with it, and that is explained clearly in the FAQ.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

2 minutes ago, SamathaStarr said:

It's getting to be nothing but Nazi Crap, First avatars are made to be average height of 7 foot tall, then you are told if you are under that Height or of Normal Real Life Height, You can be banned for Being too child like and dressing acting adult,

I personally Know Adult film stars and models that are Only 4'10" tall, I know Tons more people in everyday work that are between 18 and 80 years of age . Mothers. Fathers. Grandmothers and Grandfathers that are not even 5 foot tall, and yet we on SL are being Judged by out Height and Shapes.

I personally dated a 22 year old woman when I was 21 , And she was barely 5'1" tall, and Was more flat chested than I was.

And yet, SL and LL is defining us by our size and shape,

 

This is just more communist Nazi Crap.

I'm only 5 foot 3 inches tall myself . 

And if I am in a club full of 7 Foot tall avatars I will look like a child next to them, And I'm being told I have to change My Avatar I worked on for months to get right, Spent Tons of Real Life money to get clothing Bodies, Hair and everything I needed to put together look that I like and is close to my RL size.

Total BS, Bigotry and Bias based on a community of Ignorance and Bigotry. 

Just another Sad, Sickening, Disgusting example of the small mindedness of The so called Modern Society .

I refuse to be Dictated to,

I am a Non Conformist , 

And I will not change who I am for your Bigoted Standards.

Height by itself isn't a determining factor.  So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your SL.

[Rathgrith027]

11 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Sorry, but pedophelia, which Linden Lab adresses here, includes children (here:child avatars) by default. If Linden Lab were determined to oust all of you a**players they could and they would do it. They do not want to, instead they count on the a**players common sense and cooperation. It´s pretty simple: Follow the new guidelines instead of complaining on them and you are safe and everyone around you is safe. The more you complain and whine on the relatively moderate changes the less friends you will have in the near future.

Oh, so we're resorting to slander when I dare ask people use accusations that heavy and damning with the respect they deserve, that's cute.

Blocked.

[Vivienne Schell]

4 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

I, respectfully, disagree.  So long as simple nudity is allowed, even encourage if you will, on M rated land it is not "adult activity" in the context being discussed, which usually involve conduct of a more, shall we say, physical nature between consenting adult presenting avatars. The narrow case of child presenting avatars not being allowed in places where nudity is encouraged and/or expected (nude beach) does not make that "adult" content or activity per se in the context being discussed. A fine line perhaps, but it's a line just the same.  It's..... adult activity adjacent, at best. it's mature content to be sure, R as opposed to X if you will.  That's all my take is at least.

"Again, child avatars should not be engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected."

[Arwyn Quandry]

Let's add yet another layer of complication to this: Teen avatars. There's plenty of folks who RP as 16 or 17 year olds. I'm thinking of one RP sim in particular where every child is above the age of 10. They aren't chubby faced babies. Many of them use adult bodies like Maitreya or Legacy along with adult skins. How are they supposed to implement this "modesty layer" when their content isn't child specific?

[Robberinthemuseum]

I hope LL takes note of the people arguing too strongly against the modesty patches and reports them to the appropriate authorities. Sorry, not sorry. 

[Geo Greenwood]

9 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

Is the creator of Tweenster on Second life still? if they aren't then it might be banned, since it won't get an update. Also, love your avatar if that's your avatar in your pfp.

There was a new announcement from the creator of TWEENSTER, stating that they will be updating Tweenster and skins to comply with this ToS change.
I don't know the specific details of the update, but I feel a little relieved.

As far as I know, child avatars of both genders have not had genitals written on them, and I personally think it's too much to specify that even nipples are adult content.

[Theresa Ravenheart]

18 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

I, respectfully, disagree.  So long as simple nudity is allowed, even encourage if you will, on M rated land it is not "adult activity" in the context being discussed, which usually involve conduct of a more, shall we say, physical nature between consenting adult presenting avatars. The narrow case of child presenting avatars not being allowed in places where nudity is encouraged and/or expected (nude beach) does not make that "adult" content or activity per se in the context being discussed. A fine line perhaps, but it's a line just the same.  It's..... adult activity adjacent, at best. it's mature content to be sure, R as opposed to X if you will.  That's all my take is at least.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't think that we are understanding or reading the same things. I'm basing what I said off of the updated Linden Lab Official: Clarification of policy disallowing *****: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

It states:

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  • So to me, I took this as, child avatars are not allowed to be around, shop, hang out  or participate in anything where there is ANY nudity is present. This is further clarified in their FAQ: https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000173097-child-avatar-faq:
    • Q: I am a child avatar in SL. How do I shop for anything, when many of the popular stores for furniture, AOs, gestures, etc. have both regular and adult versions in their Moderate rated store?
    • A: As stated above, child avatars cannot engage or participate in the use of adult versions of such content. It may be best to create an outfit with a non-human or non-child human persona to run errands such as shopping, such as any of the default Second Life avatars, robots, et cetera.
• Wearing genital/sexual attachments including clothing, attachments or HUDs created for and/or worn by child avatars to indicate genitalia, whether visible or not.
• Being fully nude. Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed.
  
  There is no such thing as "simple nudity", child avatars cannot be naked, at all; nor can they be around people that are naked, however they said:
  • Q: If someone is walking through a region wearing exposed genitalia and walks past me (a child avatar), will I be in trouble if someone takes a picture and reports me?
  • A: No, our investigative process can determine accidental exposure. Again, child avatars should not be engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use.

So they won't get insta-banned (hopefully) just because someone walks past them naked, but they make it clear that child avatars should not be anywhere that adult avatars might be naked, which is A and M lands; and they even suggest that I do not used their child avatars when shopping or visiting M land..

Edited May 4 by Theresa Ravenheart

[Rathgrith027]

Just now, Robberinthemuseum said:

I hope LL takes note of the people arguing too strongly against the modesty patches and reports them to the appropriate authorities. Sorry, not sorry. 

I haven't spoken much about the modest patches, but I honestly don't have a problem with it. Child avatars shouldn't be engaging in any sort of sexual activity on SL, full stop.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I've got very little empathy for anyone complaining about having to wear virtual undies

I've have not seen any child avatar in this thread complain about having to wear undies.  Hell, most of the kid avatars that I know already wear undies all the time.

[Arwyn Quandry]

5 minutes ago, Geo Greenwood said:

As far as I know, child avatars of both genders have not had genitals written on them, and I personally think it's too much to specify that even nipples are adult content.

Well, is it a female presenting nipple or a male presenting nipple?

[Kathlen Onyx]

18 minutes ago, SamathaStarr said:

It's getting to be nothing but Nazi Crap, First avatars are made to be average height of 7 foot tall, then you are told if you are under that Height or of Normal Real Life Height, You can be banned for Being too child like and dressing acting adult,

I personally Know Adult film stars and models that are Only 4'10" tall, I know Tons more people in everyday work that are between 18 and 80 years of age . Mothers. Fathers. Grandmothers and Grandfathers that are not even 5 foot tall, and yet we on SL are being Judged by out Height and Shapes.

I personally dated a 22 year old woman when I was 21 , And she was barely 5'1" tall, and Was more flat chested than I was.

And yet, SL and LL is defining us by our size and shape,

 

This is just more communist Nazi Crap.

I'm only 5 foot 3 inches tall myself . 

And if I am in a club full of 7 Foot tall avatars I will look like a child next to them, And I'm being told I have to change My Avatar I worked on for months to get right, Spent Tons of Real Life money to get clothing Bodies, Hair and everything I needed to put together look that I like and is close to my RL size.

Total BS, Bigotry and Bias based on a community of Ignorance and Bigotry. 

Just another Sad, Sickening, Disgusting example of the small mindedness of The so called Modern Society .

I refuse to be Dictated to,

I am a Non Conformist , 

And I will not change who I am for your Bigoted Standards.

You didn't read the FAQ's at all did you because everything you just typed up is misinterpreted.

[Wincil]

I think it's easy to distinguish a adult body shape from a actual child one some women do have large breasts and some are flat chested irl and women usually have wide child bearing hips. (My avatar body shape as a average breast size and is actually based on that.)

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[Kathlen Onyx]

12 minutes ago, Robberinthemuseum said:

I hope LL takes note of the people arguing too strongly against the modesty patches and reports them to the appropriate authorities. Sorry, not sorry. 

Stupidest comment on this thread. Sorry, not sorry.

[Rathgrith027]

Look, I'm going to be clear as I can here.

I have NO issue with banning child avatars from accessing adult content. None. Zero. Nada. It's bad PR, it's a legal minefield, even with protections for the lab like the aforementioned CDA-1996 Sec. 230, and is overwhelmingly condemned.

My problem, is that adult avatars that present as petite, that are styled in anime fashion, that are effeminate males or otherwise gender nonconforming, over the years, have gotten the short end of the stick over the years. Were some of those bans justified? Probably - I've seen a few and in some of them, yes, Linden Lab was right. But at the end of the day the problem in that regard alone, and this is the crux of it, is that there is no clearly defined guidelines. Yes, height is not a sole determining factor. Awesome - I'll let time decide whether Linden Lab follows thru on their word. But we need images, examples, that show what proportions and the sort are okay, what kind of behavior is okay, and what aren't, for both governance as a litmus test, and for the community as a boundary. If some people still get banned, then it's on them for not adhering to the guidelines set, but right now the guidelines have a larger circular error probable than a shotgun fired at 10,000 feet.

That's all I want. Nothing more. Nothing less. If the lab were to do that, and stick to it, I would shut up about Governance probably forever.

Edited May 4 by Rathgrith027

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Wincil said:

I think it's easy to distinguish a adult body shape from a actual child one some women do have large breasts and some are flat chested irl and women usually have wide child bearing hips. (My avatar body shape wasn't based on a 13 year old child because that's simply not what I had in mind when working on that avatar.)

Is your face an adult?

[Wincil]

7 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Is your face an adult?

That's a stupid question to ask ngl my avatar is just anime styled and is babyfaced simple as.

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[Scylla Rhiadra]

So, to summarize a bit.

Are Child Avatars of any age still permitted? Yes. This remains unchanged.

Can Child Avatars continue to interact with those representing Adults? Yes. This remains unchanged.

Are there any new restrictions on the kind of RP that Child Avatars can engage in? No, although any RP must now be in Moderate- or General-rated regions. "Family" RP, for instance, is still permitted. This remains unchanged.

Are there new restrictions on where Child Avatars can be? Yes. Adult-rated areas are characterized primarily by the fact that public sexuality and/or violence is permitted within them; because Child Avatars are not (and have not, for some time) been permitted near public sexuality, they are now restricted from entering Adult areas. This represents a change to old policies.

Are there new restrictions on what Child Avatars can wear? Yes. Child avatars are no longer allowed to be nude, and must, beginning in July, wear skins with baked-in "modesty layers." They must also not wear clothing or attachments that represent or that accentuate the genital areas. This represents a change to old policies.

Are Child Avatars allowed to be present around nudity? No. This represents a change to old policies.

Have the penalties for which Child Avatars are liable should they contravene these rules changed? No. This remains unchanged, although there are a few new categories for which penalties can be assessed (see Adult regions, and nudity, above.)

Has the way in which abuse reports lodged against Child Avatars are judged by LL changed? No. This remains unchanged.

Has the appeal process for ARs changed? No. This remains unchanged.

Has there been any change in ability of landowners to restrict the access of Child Avatars to their land changed? No. This remains unchanged.

 

Most of this remains unchanged. Again, this all seems to me very doable, surely, although some clarifications from LL (particularly with regard to the modesty layer) would be appreciated.

What have I missed?

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

What's different about THIS thread is, I don't hear a lot of "this will be the end of Second Life". I find that interesting

It hasn't been said LOTS, but it has been said a few times here.

[Wincil]

Some normies have this logic Anime = Child = Report I find that infuriating normie refers to someone who doesn't have a anime or manga styled avatar but seriously I didn't join secondlife for drama I join second life to make friends and meet new people and just have fun.

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Oh, and just in passing . . . can we please stop referring to a*eplay in SL as "pedophilia"?

Those who engage in this might or might not be "pedophiles" (I am not qualified to judge), but RPing a*eplay is no more actual pedophilia, than RPing "r*pe" is actual r*pe. It's a representation of it -- there are no actual children involved.

Almost no one here is going to equate BDSM roleplay with actual sexual violence -- why are some of us equating a*eplay with actual child abuse?

I don't say this to "excuse" a*eplay: it's awful, socially dangerous and harmful, and also (less importantly) not good for the platform.

But it's not the same thing.

Edited May 4 by Scylla Rhiadra
Ugh

[Leslie Trihey]

7 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Is your face an adult?

It's literally a standard anime face.

This is Misato Katsuragi a 29 year old character from the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion, with a standard anime face. Only real difference between her face and Wincils face is make up.

 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Anna Salyx said:

That'd be how I do it on the actual body level:  Make the body with the base mesh being all BOM that'd hold skins/tattoo/system layer clothes, make it toggle-able (maybe) for appliers skins.  Then add a block of mesh faces over the top of those areas that require modesty that would be permanently opaque in whatever apropo styling.  Not that hard in the grand scheme of things really. that way it could never be gotten around and it wouldn't depend on skin makers to do the work.

But any method can actually be gotten around.  The resulting body and/or skin still has to allow for BOM layers - in order to wear BOM clothing and that layer will lay on top of the modesty layer.  Thus someone could create a tattoo layer that covers up the modesty stuff and provides genitals.  Yes, that would be a violation and if said avatar got caught, they would be banned.  But it is still possible.

[Kathlen Onyx]

11 minutes ago, Wincil said:

That's a stupid question to ask ngl my avatar is just anime styled and is babyfaced simple as.

Then you are a child avi

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Wincil said:

normies

And this is an awful and really condescending word.

Can you please stop referring to everyone who doesn't view this from your particular perspective as though we were dull, unenlightened, and un-hip? I get that it makes you feel "special" and all that, but it's a term associated with cultures such as that of Incels, and it makes me want to throw something at my screen.