Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: You just dismissed the entire community of Tinies, Dinkies, and a huge percentage of wholesome Furries. Not cool. Not to mention that wasn't it the adult side of SL that kept the lights on? Now it's the children? 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The 2007 scandal was the beginning of the end of growth. Over the following year almost all significant companies withdrew their sims and offices and investments from SL. It also finished the hype, after that the media turned from support to criticism and finally to ignorance. Linden Lab cannot afford another incident of the same kind, and the laissez faire of the past few years endangers the entire platform. They must act now, and they did and will. Nothing would destroy the platform so easily than another pedo affair in the media. Nothing we do inside the bubble will affect how people outside perceive us. We can't even inform all of our own users about ToS changes that might affect them, no one outside is going to care or notice beyond wondering why this mess is still around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The 2007 scandal was the beginning of the end of growth. Over the following year almost all significant companies withdrew their sims and offices and investments from SL. It also finished the hype, after that the media turned from support to criticism and finally to ignorance. Linden Lab cannot afford another incident of the same kind, and the laissez faire of the past few years endangers the entire platform. They must act now, and they did and will. Nothing would destroy the platform so easily than another pedo affair in the media. Seems to me that has already happened and this is just their response. Remains to be seen if they are just digging themselves deeper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: Nothing we do inside the bubble will affect how people outside perceive LOL oh yes it does. SL has cultivated a rep over the years, a quick Google search will show you that. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 17 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said: And the numbers show - <100 on forum versus 48k + online in world. Including me so yeah I'm only inworld between 5am - 11am SLT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Nothing we do inside the bubble will affect how people outside perceive us. We can't even inform all of our own users about ToS changes that might affect them, no one outside is going to care or notice beyond wondering why this mess is still around. I have to disagree with your first point -- I think it's good that LL show they are not tolerating illegal activities in SL, given the political climate in the US and how restrictions are likely to get worse for all online venues. Additional help is needed from LL though (I agree with your past emphasis on this) so everyone can comply as easily as possible. And a kind attitude toward those bearing the brunt of these changes (child avatars) would also be helpful. Edited May 4 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 30 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: No one else gives a 💩 because it's not personally important to them. You'll find more than a few who represent as adult on this forum who'd disagree with you about that. 31 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: If we lose the child avatar community we lose all hope of this ever being anything other than humping avatars lolwhut???? No. 32 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: and liars who deny humping avatars lolwhut again??? Just . . . what????? There are more things in Second Life, Coffee, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. 9 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 33 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Almost every G rated activity, venue and product only happens here because there is a child avatar either behind the brand or in the family of. No one else gives a 💩 because it's not personally important to them. If we lose the child avatar community we lose all hope of this ever being anything other than humping avatars .. and liars who deny humping avatars. So, all of us on M-rated regions who do not engage in SLEX have been, mysteriously, converted into humping avatars, or liars? Say what? /me makes you some chamomile tea in hopes that it will calm your nerves. 52 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said: I just lost someone I was real close to in SL because of this. They are closing their accounts. That's very sad. If you have any more friends who are considering drastic, immediate action, you might try reminding them that absolutely nothing has changed about their SL, and it appears that nothing WILL change until late June. So why not stay until at least the May 20th roundtable, which supposedly will be further addressing this issue? 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 There is also more to SL than forum debate games. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Nika Talaj said: try reminding them that absolutely nothing has changed about their SL, and it appears that nothing WILL change until late June. The new ToS is in effect now. Only the modesty layer aspect is delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: It is a rather pitiful start when the target for their policy changes are the prey of pedophiles. "Prey," Arielle? In what sense? You do realize that the typists behind the child avatars here aren't actually kids, right? There's no one using candy to lure the few of them who might engage in a*eplay into the back of an unmarked van. Anyone on a kiddie avi here who gets involved in inappropriately sexual activities knows full well what they are doing, knows that it is a bannable offence, and could easily extricate themselves from it at any time. The only sense in which child avatar RPers might possibly be considered "prey" is if they are targeted by griefers -- and from what I know of how griefers work, it's quite as likely to be the other way round, with fake kiddie avatars being used to launch fraudulent ARs against those representing as adults. 5 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: There is also more to SL than forum debate games. What does that even mean? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: There is also more to SL than forum debate Have you tried the pose balls? 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: The new ToS is in effect now. Only the modesty layer aspect is delayed. So the part about no sex, no nakie and no adult regions is in effect. Why would that be a problem? 9 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Nothing we do inside the bubble will affect how people outside perceive us. We can't even inform all of our own users about ToS changes that might affect them, no one outside is going to care or notice beyond wondering why this mess is still around. That´s overly pessimistic, in fact Second Life gained momentum over the Covid years. Manifested by growing user numbers and even a decent growth regarding regions, after years of more or less slow decline (Grid Survey). Not as if it ever would enjoy the hype of 2005-2007 again, but the new Lab Owners apparently invest a lot in new technologies and seem to be convinced of an even more promising and longer lasting turnaround. With growing numbers of users and region the Media will become more interested, also mind Meta which attracts media attention to virtual reality. The 2007 backslash is forgotten meanwhile, fortunately. No one can be interested in having another, similar scandal like that at this point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, Madi Melodious said: Please provide a link to this message. I've been reading this forum for two days and I can't seem to find it. Are there any "family friendly nude beaches" on anything but Adult rated land? Why? How? And regardless, a nude beach expects the visitors to be nude, yes? In that case child avatars can't go and participate in nudity even if these are on moderate land since they can't be nude. From the new ToS ... Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. Edited May 4 by Katherine Heartsong 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Batriani Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Interesting, because the LL TOS link at the bottom of this page is dated Effective: July 31, 2017 I cannot find these new TOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Misfit Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Katherine Heartsong said: Are there any "family friendly nude beaches" on anything but Adult rated land? Why? How? And regardless, a nude beach expects the visitors to be nude, yes? In that case child avatars can't go and participate in nudity since ... Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. Hopefully those "family friendly nude beaches" that are nothing but a cover for ***** activities will fall by the wayside with the introduction of the new restrictions. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Ivy Batriani said: Interesting, because the LL TOS link at the bottom of this page is dated Effective: July 31, 2017 I cannot find these new TOS. There's a May 2024 date in the middle of them as has been screenshotted here a few times when you log in the first time since these changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: Are there any "family friendly nude beaches" on anything but Adult rated land? Why? How? And regardless, a nude beach expects the visitors to be nude, yes? In that case child avatars can't go and participate in nudity even if these are on moderate land since they can't be nude. From the new ToS ... Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. Actually, legitimate question. There are nude beaches that are moderate: nudity (but not public sexuality) is permitted in Moderate rated areas. What I can't see is anything restricting child avatars from being around nudity. Sexuality, yes -- that's clearly prohibited, and has been for years. But I don't see anything that would prevent a child avatar who is not nude (i.e., in a bathing suit) from hanging out at a beach where everyone else is nude. Am I missing something? And if not, maybe this is something else LL could clarify? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 hours ago, Madi Melodious said: Please provide a link to this message. I've been reading this forum for two days and I can't seem to find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Ravenheart Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: Are there any "family friendly nude beaches" on anything but Adult rated land? Why? How? And regardless, a nude beach expects the visitors to be nude, yes? In that case child avatars can't go and participate in nudity even if these are on moderate land since they can't be nude. From the new ToS ... Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. As they shouldn't be nude or going to nude beaches, ever. No other platform, that I am aware of, lets child avatars be naked! You can't be a naked child avatar on Roblox or IMVU, you can't even be a naked adult in IMVU if you don't buy AP to age verify. Why is it so upsetting that adults playing as child avatars cannot be naked anymore or be on Adult land. As an adult in the "adult" scene in SL, I am so thankful that I will never run into another child avatar on an Adult sim, it's relieving and way less creepy. I always block and derender them anyways, but to me, it is a comfort that a child avatar will not be standing anywhere near me while I am in full fetish gear shopping or hanging out. Can you express in logical and clear terms why it is needed, wanted, or important for an adult piloting a CHILD avatar to be nude in Second Life? Edited May 4 by Theresa Ravenheart 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Actually, legitimate question. There are nude beaches that are moderate: nudity (but not public sexuality) is permitted in Moderate rated areas. What I can't see is anything restricting child avatars from being around nudity. Sexuality, yes -- that's clearly prohibited, and has been for years. But I don't see anything that would prevent a child avatar who is not nude (i.e., in a bathing suit) from hanging out at a beach where everyone else is nude. Am I missing something? And if not, maybe this is something else LL could clarify? Sorry, but making the modesty patches mandatory (and they are) excludes any public nudity of child avis. There is no clarification needed. Also, the rules clearly define that child avatars cannot hang out at places where adult content is present. Genitals ARE adult content. Also no clarification needed. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwyn Quandry Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Hate to open up a potential can of worms, but I've gotta ask... What's defined as an "adult activity"? Because there's been people doing definitely sexualized spanking RP with child avatars for years while hiding behind the fact that people spank their RL kids to claim it's not sexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Vivienne Schell said: Genitals ARE adult content. Also no clarification needed. No, actually, they are not, or have generally not been treated as such in the past. "Adult" means (and I quote with emphasis added) "photorealistic nudity." In practice, non-sexual nudity has generally been permitted in Moderate areas. And the fact is that there are Moderate-rated nude beaches. Quite a few of them, actually. In theory, a child avatar should be able to go to one of these. They just wouldn't be allowed to be nude themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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