Prokofy Neva Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, Istelathis said: Perhaps shuffling around people due to Unity now being used, I suspect the viewer on the desktop will be moving to Unity as well. If it is, development on the desktop engine currently in use will probably slow down to a near halt as the resources will be shifted to Unity and the manpower required to maintain two different engines would no longer be necessary. Then there might be the ordeal with having to deal with Apple and Google, and trying to cater to a mobile audience. Who knows though? I do know, that I was looking forward to hearing the next Lab Gab, and that may have giving us a few more hints as to their plans for the future, unfortunately, did not happen on the 29th. I don't know though, I haven't a clue as to what the roles are in Linden, who the developers are, what their specialties involve, or even the direction SL is going to take. Isn't it a serious matter not to have a VP of Engineering? Or is that a ceremonial post? I didn't get that impression at all from Oz Linden who was very hands-on, in-world, with visible office hours, etc. Yet they left his position open for months on end, and somehow the underlings soldiered on. I realize there is this view that SL is held together with a wing, a prayer, and 72 miles of duck tape and bent staples. But...really? They moved to AWS servers where there are plenty of grown-ups, no? The old Lindens used to say that trying to fix SL's mess and technical debt was like "trying to swap a plane engine out while it is flying". I just don't know. In some ways it does run better than it does in the early days when they would even send reimbursements to customers, the outages lasted so long -- for days. It more or less works, no? I mean I'm easy to please, I don't need any of this stuff they've added like PBR. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said: Have wondered the same thing, if they can get a viewer working in Unity then it seems pretty logical they would move to it on the desktop too. Easy cross platformyness as well, they've been in a pretty bad spot as far as not having a native viewer for Apple Silicon for this long. Unity? Unity?! The devs I know in Unity are without jobs now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just now, Prokofy Neva said: Isn't it a serious matter not to have a VP of Engineering? Or is that a ceremonial post? I didn't get that impression at all from Oz Linden who was very hands-on, in-world, with visible office hours, etc. Yet they left his position open for months on end, and somehow the underlings soldiered on. I realize there is this view that SL is held together with a wing, a prayer, and 72 miles of duck tape and bent staples. But...really? They moved to AWS servers where there are plenty of grown-ups, no? The old Lindens used to say that trying to fix SL's mess and technical debt was like "trying to swap a plane engine out while it is flying". I just don't know. In some ways it does run better than it does in the early days when they would even send reimbursements to customers, the outages lasted so long -- for days. It more or less works, no? I mean I'm easy to please, I don't need any of this stuff they've added like PBR. I would say that the PBR viewer has done pretty magical stuff as far as performance, it runs a lot better for me (and all viewers using the code base) so I assume there have been improvements beyond just implementing PBR support. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said: Unity? Unity?! The devs I know in Unity are without jobs now. The new mobile viewer uses Unity. Didn't Unity drop all that horrible licensing deal crap they proposed anyway? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just now, AmeliaJ08 said: I would say that the PBR viewer has done pretty magical stuff as far as performance, it runs a lot better for me (and all viewers using the code base) so I assume there have been improvements beyond just implementing PBR support. My sense is that that is true for a great many people, but that it has a lot to do with the particular configuration of one's computer, and especially one's graphic card. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 7 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: Isn't it a serious matter not to have a VP of Engineering? Or is that a ceremonial post? It depends on what they actually DO. VP's manager Directors Directors manage Managers Managers manage "line workers" Sometimes Directors get shuffled to a new VP, or don't actually need a VP to tell them what to do. They mostly "guide the vision".. It's the Directors that actually make sure the Managers get the Line workers to accomplish "goals". That's my experience from IT.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: My sense is that that is true for a great many people, but that it has a lot to do with the particular configuration of one's computer, and especially one's graphic card. OK, go and look at those teacups I discussed on Twitter and tell me if you see the same thing I do because they're in PBR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 11 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said: The new mobile viewer uses Unity. Didn't Unity drop all that horrible licensing deal crap they proposed anyway? You know that mantra about "a fish without a bicycle". That's me, without a mobile viewer: ) I literally cannot see much of my phone in RL, let alone use my thumbs to text like the more advanced primates can. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said: OK, go and look at those teacups I discussed on Twitter and tell me if you see the same thing I do because they're in PBR. I have! In fact, I was seriously considering buying that whole set myself. I decided they didn't look good enough to justify the price. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I have! In fact, I was seriously considering buying that whole set myself. I decided they didn't look good enough to justify the price. Oh my gosh. I wish now that someone in SL would make a full Chinese porcelain tea set illustrating all the major scandals - past and present - in SL. - Ok, maybe a set of etchings or water colors would suffice. - Call it the "Sky is Falling" set. Edited March 1 by Persephone Emerald 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 37 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I have! In fact, I was seriously considering buying that whole set myself. I decided they didn't look good enough to justify the price. But was that due to PBR or other reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 45 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: You know that mantra about "a fish without a bicycle". You're reminding me of "A Fish Named Wanda", and also the surrealistic Monty Python skits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said: The targets are more likely rear-end targets, Qie. I was (only?) half kidding: Linden Lab may be a strange business, but it's still a business. And even a massively dysfunctional business does not run the way a drug-addled ex-gamergate incel can concoct in his wildest imaginings. Jus' sayin' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 15 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: But was that due to PBR or other reasons? I can't remember which viewer I was using at the time, tbh. It might have been a PBR enabled one. I didn't think to consider the reasons: I just thought they didn't look very good. It would be interesting to see them in both a legacy and a PBR viewer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: It will be interesting (to me at least) if the main viewer DOES move to Unity, to see how long it takes the TPV's to adopt / catch up! Odds are they won't, as they don't have the budget for paying a per user fee, switching viewer tech to Unity will probably kill the TPV market, and thus kill SL. Having to use a "We don't do quality-of-life features" official fail-viewer will p*ss off a substantial section of the user base, and badly affect income. 1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said: they've been in a pretty bad spot as far as not having a native viewer for Apple Silicon for this long. Realistically, there are not enough awful mac users in SL to justify wasting money on a native viewer for ANY version of awful mac, let alone the Awful Silicon Metal Arms stuff. Dead end deliberate incompatibility lock-in fail tech awfulness. Edited March 1 by Zalificent Corvinus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) The pricing goes above my head(as do most things), but I did find something that may be of use https://unity.com/pricing https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator For the enterprise I got something like $51,500 USD per month with the setting put to max That's a one spicy meat-a-ball! That is assuming we have millions of users a month 🤣 For those interested and more knowledgeable than me, play around with it and see how much you estimate it would cost, assuming this link would give us an accurate estimate. It then comes down to costs, would it require more developers to maintain two different engines, and if so, would it be cheaper to just go with Unity? Edited March 1 by Istelathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Something needs to change! All the people are split apart into pieces when I arrive, like a Freddy buzzsaw movie. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said: You know that mantra about "a fish without a bicycle". That's me, without a mobile viewer: ) I literally cannot see much of my phone in RL, let alone use my thumbs to text like the more advanced primates can. 100% 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I’m suprised a Linden was allowed to have a lewd name. Maybe LL has a sence of humor after all, or they were all too dense to see it. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: It depends on what they actually DO. VP's manager Directors Directors manage Managers Managers manage "line workers" Sometimes Directors get shuffled to a new VP, or don't actually need a VP to tell them what to do. They mostly "guide the vision".. It's the Directors that actually make sure the Managers get the Line workers to accomplish "goals". That's my experience from IT.. Sounds like one or two layers can be dropped easily in that system you describe. If people know and take their responsibilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 15 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Odds are they won't, as they don't have the budget for paying a per user fee, switching viewer tech to Unity will probably kill the TPV market, and thus kill SL. Having to use a "We don't do quality-of-life features" official fail-viewer will p*ss off a substantial section of the user base, and badly affect income. How on earth is it possible that there are games out there that totally do great with only an official fail interface? TPV's are nice to give people choices, but are not essential. I'm totally happy with using what you call the fail-viewer for 17 years now. What's wrong with me? Edited March 2 by Sid Nagy 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: How on earth is it possible that there are games out there that totally do great with only an official fail interface? Three things. 1. Not all games are afflicted with a "fail interface", because unlike SL, they were developed by actual games dev companies. 2. Visit a site like nexusmods and see exactly how many games there are that they have mods for, and how many mods there are. 3. You make and sell mods for LL fail-houses. Remember that. 47 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: TPV's are nice to give people choices, but are not essential. 70% of SSecondLifers appear to disagree with you. People use TPV's because they come with a range of Quality-of-Life improvements. The "Happy with less" Official Fail-Viewer fanbois are a minority. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said: I'm totally happy with using what you call the fail-viewer for 17 years now. What's wrong with me? Same! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sid Nagy said: TPV's are nice to give people choices, but are not essential. That depends to some degree on what you are using it for? Honestly, the lack of Area Search in the official viewer is annoying, but . . . yes, I could probably live without it. But for a photographer, the LL viewer just sucks. It hides away many of the most important functions in the Developer or Advanced Menu, and requires in some cases the manual entry of settings, and you can't derender objects in a scene. And, for whatever reason, the images are simply not as good, even as the ones from Firestorm. And of course for some people (although not for me personally) the lack of RLV capability disqualifies it. So, yes, if your SL is mostly just wandering about exploring, or hanging out with friends, or even clubbing, it's probably annoyingly clunky but usable. For other, more specialized uses, not so much. Edited March 2 by Scylla Rhiadra 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 If there would not have been TPV's around in SL, SL would still be around IMHO. And that was mainly my point. Of course it is nice that we have them, but they are not essential for SL IMHO. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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