I have a question. (rant)

[Randall Ahren]

28 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Whatever can they be thinking?

Probably the same thing SL residents think when someone tells them SL is a game for losers and idiots. "It's my life and I'll do what I want."

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

is a game for losers and idiots

Oh!

NyteFart Ripped Off Teens Royale!

[Arielle Popstar]

Personally I do prefer timed demo's then some of the alternative methods for marking it but definitely need a little more then the standard 5 minutes, especially if there are multiple parts to the outfit and fitted for different bodies.

[Rowan Amore]

24 hours minimum.

[Arielle Popstar]

41 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

24 hours minimum.

I just picked up an outfit the other day that has a 15 day return policy if not satisfied.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:39 PM, TheVeryFirst said:

Why do creators put a very short time on a demo. 

Because they are stupid A$$#01e$.

[Qie Niangao]

7 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

Probably the same thing SL residents think when someone tells them SL is a game for losers and idiots. "It's my life and I'll do what I want."

Well, these demos certainly treat users as though the merchant thinks they're losers and idiots. And those merchants certainly can do whatever they want—they can play an animation on demo users that turns the avatar upside down and shakes it until L$s fall out—and that'll be just as effective a marketing tool as a timer on the demo.

They're on the very verge of a sale, competing to make a good impression, and choose that moment to make the customer miserable.

Earlier I gave them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they're just lazy: A timer script is about as small an investment of effort as possible to make a product demo. But some of those same creators will package their final product in the most elaborate disposable HUD imaginable, so they spend plenty of time trying to impress after a sale.

Oh! Of course, SL is a game! The all-singing all-dancing unpacking script is to celebrate the buyer's achievement in making it through the twisty little passages of the product demo.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Well, these demos certainly treat users as though the merchant thinks they're losers and idiots.

A positive spin on it might be, that the merchants have done extensive research into the skills of their core user base. (And, research revealed that the merchants' users are losers and idiots..)

[AmeliaJ08]

14 hours ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Would you be happier with a 10 min demo?

No, any time limit is annoying for me unless it is something crazy long in the order of hours and you'd never want that since... Well, obviously.

My preference is always for demos with obscured textures, if you clearly state that your demo is timed in the product description that is a fair compromise though - those like me who can't really get along with them will not feel let down, those who can (and 10 minutes is the longest I've ever heard of a demo lasting) would probably be fine with that I think.

It's just not enough time for me to check everything without feeling I'm rushing against the clock, I'm not exactly a methodical worker when it comes to this stuff though.

[Liaa Nova]

I've only ever had one timed demo and didn't realise it was on a timer, so ended up minus clothes in a store. Other than that one item, nothing I buy uses timed demos so not sure how common this is (I shop non stop from all known stores). 10 minutes would be more than enough for me, I rarely even demo and while the armpits can be an issue, most stuff works fine. (Never try with other things as if I like the item, I'll make it work with something)

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

6 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

No, any time limit is annoying for me unless it is something crazy long in the order of hours and you'd never want that since... Well, obviously.

My preference is always for demos with obscured textures, if you clearly state that your demo is timed in the product description that is a fair compromise though - those like me who can't really get along with them will not feel let down, those who can (and 10 minutes is the longest I've ever heard of a demo lasting) would probably be fine with that I think.

It's just not enough time for me to check everything without feeling I'm rushing against the clock, I'm not exactly a methodical worker when it comes to this stuff though.

Would 20 mins be more like it?

I am happy to buy a script that allows me to set the time myself

I really didn't know timed demos were a problem for people, but happy to listen to input like this and make changes when necessary.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Carolyn Zapedzki

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 hours ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

I really didn't know timed demos were a problem for people

I went to one store, to look at a swimsuit.

The demo was TIMED at 3 mins.

SL was slow that day. The demo timed out before the damn textures in the demo hud rezzed. I never did get to see what it actually looked like on me, so, I didn't buy it, I went and got a swimsuit very much like it (same full perm template I suspect) from another store with cheaper prices, and less paranoia.

Were the cheaper brand's textures as NICE as Paranoia Inc? I'll never know, because their demos time out before I can FIND out.

[Persephone Emerald]

16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

A positive spin on it might be, that the merchants have done extensive research into the skills of their core user base. (And, research revealed that the merchants' users are losers and idiots..)

Even if they (we?) are losers and idiots, if the store owner wants loyal customers,  they need to try to make us feel appreciated and smart for choosing to buy from their store. A store should be easy to move around in, easy to find what we want, easy to demo stuff, easy to understand what we'd be buying, easy to use store credit or gift cards, easy to open the package, and easy to get a redelivery. 

[Qie Niangao]

12 hours ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Would 20 mins be more like it?

I am happy to buy a script that allows me to set the time myself

I really didn't know timed demos were a problem for people, but happy to listen to input like this and make changes when necessary.

That openness to change in response to customers is welcome and refreshing. I'm totally not in your target market so discount this advice accordingly, but it seems to me that the whole timed demo approach is tainted now and it would be better to just use one of the other ways to "demo package" a product.

One might be more appropriate than another; for example, I can definitely see reasons not to use special demo-stamped textures for some products. Personally I don't see the problem with an attached DEMO sign fitted somewhere very visible but that doesn't block the view of the product in combination with other attachments the customer may want to check for compatibility. But there may be reasons not to do that, too.

There's potential benefit to using the demo experience as a branding opportunity. There's a men's brand (Dope+Mercy) that demo links an enormous branded spring clip fitted over the customer's head; it's a bit disconcerting for a moment but it's so over the top it makes an impression and now (to me) it's a strangely fun and very distinctive part of buying that brand.

It's possible a 20-minute demo could be turned into a branding opportunity, I guess. Maybe. Start with a reassuring chat BRIEFLY (subliminally?) congratulating the shopper for their great taste in trying the product and telling them to relax, they have a quarter hour to enjoy the experience without interruption. Then, at 15, remind them that it's a demo and they should wrap it up or grab a new copy to test more.

It still seems a bit of a nag, but fifteen minutes is a lot of time for any buyer to invest in a demo before the warning, even if the textures are taking forever to load.

Also, I wonder if a long-timed demo might hurt actual sales by making the demo itself satisfactory for some buyers: apparently SL selfies are such a thing that there's even a market for static poses (!), so might a demo on a generous enough timer be all those selfie-posers need? (That may be paranoid; the whole selfie phenomenon is alien to me.)

(Sorry. That's long. A clue that I don't know what I'm talking about.)

[elleevelyn]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, I wonder if a long-timed demo might hurt actual sales by making the demo itself satisfactory for some buyers: apparently SL selfies are such a thing that there's even a market for static poses (!), so might a demo on a generous enough timer be all those selfie-posers need? (That may be paranoid; the whole selfie phenomenon is alien to me.)

that was the rationale given to me back in the day when timed demoes first started appearing. A then creator (as a previous customer in their own right of other people's products) detested the then current demo models (textures with word stamps, rings that obscured the view, etc) decided to make non-obscuring demo on a timer of 20 minutes

in principle it wasn't a bad idea. But what they found was that people would take their full-view demoes and use them in photo shoots, post their shots and not credit the creator who made the stuff.  So they chopped the time down from 20 minutes to 3 minutes. Not that a shoot can't be done in less than 3 minutes but have to be quick

i did say at the time that I thought 3 minutes might be a bit low, but by then the creator was over it.  f-f-f-f-f !!! Another good idea down the plughole and why we don't always get nice things in SL

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

That openness to change in response to customers is welcome and refreshing. I'm totally not in your target market so discount this advice accordingly, but it seems to me that the whole timed demo approach is tainted now and it would be better to just use one of the other ways to "demo package" a product.

One might be more appropriate than another; for example, I can definitely see reasons not to use special demo-stamped textures for some products. Personally I don't see the problem with an attached DEMO sign fitted somewhere very visible but that doesn't block the view of the product in combination with other attachments the customer may want to check for compatibility. But there may be reasons not to do that, too.

There's potential benefit to using the demo experience as a branding opportunity. There's a men's brand (Dope+Mercy) that demo links an enormous branded spring clip fitted over the customer's head; it's a bit disconcerting for a moment but it's so over the top it makes an impression and now (to me) it's a strangely fun and very distinctive part of buying that brand.

It's possible a 20-minute demo could be turned into a branding opportunity, I guess. Maybe. Start with a reassuring chat BRIEFLY (subliminally?) congratulating the shopper for their great taste in trying the product and telling them to relax, they have a quarter hour to enjoy the experience without interruption. Then, at 15, remind them that it's a demo and they should wrap it up or grab a new copy to test more.

It still seems a bit of a nag, but fifteen minutes is a lot of time for any buyer to invest in a demo before the warning, even if the textures are taking forever to load.

Also, I wonder if a long-timed demo might hurt actual sales by making the demo itself satisfactory for some buyers: apparently SL selfies are such a thing that there's even a market for static poses (!), so might a demo on a generous enough timer be all those selfie-posers need? (That may be paranoid; the whole selfie phenomenon is alien to me.)

(Sorry. That's long. A clue that I don't know what I'm talking about.)

Ok, how's this then?

When I first started selling clothes I just went with timed demos as most of the clothes I tried on used them. And they were never an issue for me so I really didn't think anyone minded them.

It's good to have input and I certainly don't mind making adjustments.

[Qie Niangao]

31 minutes ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Ok, how's this then?

Position looks fine to me. Again, though, I'm not your target market so others may have more incisive input.

Going to the trouble of replacing or introducing a new demo packaging may seem a chore, but there's no need to rush and it's an opportunity to really imagine the prospective customer's experience. What do you want to convey to them about your products and your brand? How do you want them to feel and how can you give them that experience while demoing your products?

It might be a fun chance to be creative.

[Rowan Amore]

There used to be a creator that added a mustache to your avatar and maybe some silly glasses on demos.  Funny and it worked well.  I can't recall what type of item it even was but I do remember that demo approach.  Maybe hair from fri.day?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There used to be a creator that added a mustache to your avatar and maybe some silly glasses on demos.  Funny and it worked well.  I can't recall what type of item it even was but I do remember that demo approach.  Maybe hair from fri.day?

Many, many years ago (pre-mesh), a skin creator tried that with her demos (scribbling a mustache on the face). It's so cute she thought that would deter a dork like me from wearing it. 😂 No joke - I actually preferred the demo version over the full! The lil stash was so cute - paired it up with a cowboy hat with pigtails. I loved it, lol.

[Love Zhaoying]

29 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Many, many years ago (pre-mesh), a skin creator tried that with her demos (scribbling a mustache on the face). It's so cute she thought that would deter a dork like me from wearing it. 😂 No joke - I actually preferred the demo version over the full! The lil stash was so cute - paired it up with a cowboy hat with pigtails. I loved it, lol.

Aww, was hoping for a picture!!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Aww, was hoping for a picture!!

Why do I still have this? Had to go back to 2005 to find it.

 

Lol, anyhoo - re: timed demos, I'm not a fan either. Much prefer having things floating around my head so I can take my time swapping avatars and trying clothing on with other things I own (including various mods) to check for clipping/layering issues.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, elleevelyn said:

n principle it wasn't a bad idea. But what they found was that people would take their full-view demoes and use them in photo shoots, post their shots and not credit the creator who made the stuff.  So they chopped the time down from 20 minutes to 3 minutes. Not that a shoot can't be done in less than 3 minutes but have to be quick

 

Do they expect photogs to give credit to every single object used in each photo? If they do, they have set their expectations way too high and have no clue how to market. And not a thought is given to scenery in the background that doesn't even belong to the photog and may not even be on the same parcel or region.

This is why we can't have nice things. People are control freaks.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Why do I still have this? Had to go back to 2005 to find it.

 

Lol, anyhoo - re: timed demos, I'm not a fan either. Much prefer having things floating around my head so I can take my time swapping avatars and trying clothing on with other things I own (including various mods) to check for clipping/layering issues.

Made me search if Keira Knightley wore a mustache when pretending to be a "cabim boy" in one of the Pirates of the Carribean movies. Could not find.

[Nalates Urriah]

When a demo times out before I can finish checking it out, I simply trash the demo. No chance I'll buy the piece. However, after reading here, I may send a note card to the designer.

There are times when I try a demo and think this might work with something else I have seen. I'll take the demo off and go chasing the 'something else' and similar pieces. It may be days later that I start trying the demo again. I may be trying a demo with several other pieces/demos. I can easily burn up 30 minutes. While I can unpack another copy of the item, it is annoying. I run out of patience. Screw it. DELETE.

Timed demos are OK if I am given enough time. I can get by with 30 to 60 minutes.

The non-timed demos using rings of text are often annoying too. Anything that blocks my view is annoying.

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Ok, how's this then?

When I first started selling clothes I just went with timed demos as most of the clothes I tried on used them. And they were never an issue for me so I really didn't think anyone minded them.

It's good to have input and I certainly don't mind making adjustments.

This looks like the perfect placement of a floating Demo sign to me. It's high enough to not obscure the clothing, but low enough so it can't be easily cropped out of a photo.  You might want to add your store brand to it, rather than it just saying "DEMO", but that would be a personal choice.

Side note: I remember some club having a theme of newbie and demo stuff once. If someone were to go to an event wearing demo items that are branded, that would be free advertising. It's rare that people go out wearing demos though, unless it's a demo mesh head or body and they want to try it with different skins and clothes.