deserted Gorean sims and combat in my time zone

[Michaelatv Destiny]

I was just wondering why , when I log on Second Life lately, literally find many places that used to be busy completely deserted. I joined a Nice Gor Panther group in a connected region of 8 sims about a month ago. But in the last fortnight I find the camp deserted with no one coming to camp for hours. Some Aircraft airports in Blakes seas is also devoid of anyone in my UK time zone.

Some of only a few uk residents I know now, say they can no longer afford to buy certain mid range items and at same time afford rent land, due to the current rate of inflation, Living costs, and insane bills, which leave if your lucky a few Pounds left at the weekend. I used to have a homestead, but couldn't afford to keep it on my state pension. Is Linden Labs actually aware we don't live in the sunshine states of california, where, they don't have energy costs like we do or gas at $9 a gallon. I find not many Europeans on either much either, unless its just alternative clubs at 10am in my morning. If your a UK citizen perhaps someone could say if they have found Second Life deserted in UK/EU mornings and afternoons? I really miss the old NORSIM sims which were busy even at 12 midday and had to wait to get in as full, and had a huge friends list. Is LL just mopping up cash and not really investing in the future to bring back the numbers we once had. Visitor islands should be bought back I think, as most newbies are flummoxed by the interface and regulations against new avatars not being able to access all parts of the world either cos they have no payment info yet or certain sims wont allow you to visit as your new. This red tape just puts off people staying, as know of three girls who joined leaving in a few weeks saying its just too complicated and too restrictive.

They also wanted combat, but like me, the combat sims are empty Euro time, I have no idea if other time zones fare better?

[Arielle Popstar]

Could be a combination of things but I'd chalk up the biggest reason being summertime in the northern hemisphere. Have heard and read of quite a few in the real world who were going to use this summer as a time to catch up on all the summertime activities they haven't been able to participate in after the whole Covid fiasco of the past couple of years.

[Spiffy Voxel]

I'm not a Gorean (as you can tell from my profile picture 👽) but I am in the UK like you, and I'm also a broadcaster & manager for Gorean Whip Radio so I visit Gorean sims to do shows and cover events.

I think it's a combination of factors — not just that lots of UK folks either don't have the time or money for Second Life, but that US folks are asleep during those times, plus of course cost of living is universal so sims are being downsized or closed.

The irony is that I'll sometimes log in during my morning to get into regions that are crowded at other times. Otherwise, my Second Life window is usually 12pm–4pm SLT at most, any other times are when RL permits.

This is some overlap with Australian / New Zealand / Far East folks who log in during their evening / night time, but alas I don't know of any places where you're likely to meet them.

As for new user onboarding, yes there is a lot of room for improvement, as has been discussed many times here. The Lab are making an effort to change that, but there is a lot of inertia to overcome as well as barriers elsewhere such as the bar on new avatars or those without payment on file entering some areas.

I wish you good luck in your quest @Michaelatv Destiny — if you do find any Gorean places active in UK/Europe daytime, do tell!

[Jaylinbridges]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:38 AM, Michaelatv Destiny said:

Is LL just mopping up cash and not really investing in the future to bring back the numbers we once had.

LL is aiming at the z-geners with high paying technical jobs.  I have not seen a single statement from any LL management that indicates they are in the least concerned about residents that are struggling because of wars, inflation, disability, increasing age and fixed incomes, or older computers.  The typical SL fanboy/girl has a high end gaming system that is not affordable for many.  They live for the new and shiny (doorknobs).

The SL plan appears to be to capture an entire new and young crowd with the mobile viewer, while thinking HUAD is the answer for the rest of us. This summer has been the worst for most SL businesses I know about in years.  The UK owners of my estate are struggling to rent parcels, reducing  rent to less than break even levels and still have high vacancy.  They are aware of the economic issues in the UK, because they live there. The Linden management in the USA are forever silent on what's happening elsewhere in the world.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Hymn Celestia]

A group of friends of mine and I all outgrew Gor; nevertheless, we log in every day and have for over a decade, doing other things in SL and occupying other regions and contributing to The Second Life Population in other ways.  I very much doubt that the vacancy rate in Gorean regions (either by timezone or by traffic)  is a sound metric to determine when to sound the alarm about red tape and costs of living and new user experiences.  Sometimes people just move on and do other things; and sometimes they have different times to do them in than when they first began.  First and Second Life both are like that.

I remember vividly -- for years -- how quickly regions would emerge and vanish in Gor; it was annoying especially for those of us who contributed cash to the regions by renting market stalls.  We'd pay our money, set up a stall in a new Gorean place, and then see in a few weeks the whole place was gone.  Regions would come and regions would go; "there's nobody here when I'm here" the familiar refrain.  But, the world map is covered in green dots; there are people logging in every day doing things. 

The world map is enormous; there is a lot of combat to be had, perhaps not immediately where you are, but it's out there.

[Silent Mistwalker]

After the mass exodus from Active Worlds to SL (2003/4), most left SL for https://www.counterearthgrid.com/. Some went to https://gorgrid.ca/. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[QuietEventide]

Maybe property inflation is creeping into SL as well... 
I've heard that in ancient times, like "pre-2008", people used to live in houses (instead of tents, caravans, cars, campsites or on the street).

[Casidy Silvercloud]

When I was last here, GOR was still everywhere. Lots more people knew about it, talked about it or participated in it. I've noticed since I came back, that's no longer the case. I don't think GOR is anywhere near as popular as it used to be. Most of the people I've seen talking about it aren't doing so in a positive light lol.  That happened a lot back then too, GOR was fodder for a crapton of jokes. I have friends that once loved it. Not a single one of those that still log in do anymore. People move on from things all the time. 

For the timezone thing I think you're just SOL on that. It can be a crap shoot for people not in US or close to US timezones.  If you can't open your own venue that caters to people in your timezone, you're at the mercy of everyone else. That's always been present though. It likely has nothing to do with economics, just logistics. Times are hard for people all over the world, for some it's always been. This really isn't a new thing. I get thrown off kilter every summer. I may spend more time in sl, but I spend way less money on frivolous things in rl. I'm definitely not spending it in sl. 

[Rowan Amore]

The slaves weren't behaving properly or wanted to become Free Women so...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

The slaves weren't behaving properly or wanted to become Free Women so...

Well, at least half of the kajirae were likely men anyway, so it's no wonder!

Honestly, who'd want to be a woman? (In Gor.)

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, at least half of the kajirae were likely men anyway, so it's no wonder!

It's football season. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, at least half of the kajirae were likely men anyway, so it's no wonder!

Honestly, who'd want to be a woman? (In Gor.)

Those who aren't big on consent probably.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Those who aren't big on consent probably.

Gor isn't merely about consensual non-consent, although that's obviously an element of it.

Gor isn't classic BDSM or D/s. The latter are non-gendered, and one's role as a Dom/me or sub isn't determined by one's gender: you can have, obviously, Dommes and male subs.

Gor, on the other hand, is premised on the idea that women are, by their very nature, subordinate and subservient, and men dominant. It brings a whole lot of additional, and highly problematic baggage to the table (unsurprisingly, as it is based upon a series of novels that were an explicit retort to the women's lib movement of the 60s and 70s). It also does not have an explicit contract for power exchange, as D/s and BDSM does. It doesn't "need" one because, well, women are always subservient -- you don't need to "negotiate" that.

I am sure that most Goreans, and especially the women who engage in this kind of RP, see it merely as a ready-made "Dungeons and Dragons" variant on BDSM RP. I doubt that most of them subscribe to the view -- as John Norman, the author of the books, very explicitly did -- that women are inferior. Probably a great many have never read the novels, or know anything about their genesis. But there is always going to be a degree of complicity with that viewpoint if you engage in this kind of RP.

[xDancingStarx]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 I doubt that most of them subscribe to the view

Gor grew this big that the part interested in the "the true gorean lifestyle" became relatively small. It was a huge connected RP place with combat. This drew people's attention. And a great part of Gor played as "outlaws" in whatever way which means that the "gorean rules" didn't matter to them a lot, altogether with the "supposed" role of the woman.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

Gor grew this big that the part interested in the "the true gorean lifestyle" became relatively small. It was a huge connected RP place with combat. This drew people's attention. And a great part of Gor played as "outlaws" in whatever way which means that the "gorean rules" didn't matter to them a lot, altogether with the "supposed" role of the woman.

Oh sure, definitely. And there were these weird anomalous offshoots, like "women-friendly" Gorean communities too; I remember being invited to check one out by someone who knew of my objections to "by-the-book" Gor.

Yeah, it got adapted in lots of different ways by RPers who just saw it as . . . convenient, I think.

I'd still have objections to it, though, even while getting that most of those involved aren't buying into the ideology. A "woman-friendly" Gor would be a bit like "Pro-Black Antebellum Plantation RP" -- only much fun if you get to burn down the plantation eventually.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Grammar. Ugh!

[Tayt3rChip]

Hunch : I think the way SL is presented outside of SL may be a contributing factor. When I first joined SL years ago, I had no prior knowledge of SL. That  led me to joining with absolutely 0 expectations and trying just about everything. Gor had a huge community at the time, and so did bloodlines. It was totally normal to see goreans and vampires out and about, and to get very frequent 'solicitations' from them.  So I was exposed to both. I wonder what sort of information people get about SL before joining now a days.  The most popular SL related influencers that come to mind all do RP or blogging .. So maybe a lot of the public who joins SL see that and identify with that and join SL  looking for that. Maybe if there were more creators  producing a variety of content from SL to other  platforms ,more people who identified with that content  would join more ? 

Since coming back to SL I haven't encountered anything / anyone to do with bloodlines or gore in world.I also don't know if it's just  my impression but when I first joined SL people were a lot more social, and I ended up meeting  people that had all sorts of interests. Now a days I get the impression that  people are slightly more closed of and  if you dont' know to look for something you won't find it. This is all just one big guess...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Tayt3rChip said:

Hunch : I think the way SL is presented outside of SL may be a contributing factor. When I first joined SL years ago, I had no prior knowledge of SL. That  led me to joining with absolutely 0 expectations and trying just about everything. Gor had a huge community at the time, and so did bloodlines. It was totally normal to see goreans and vampires out and about, and to get very frequent 'solicitations' from them.  So I was exposed to both. I wonder what sort of information people get about SL before joining now a days.  The most popular SL related influencers that come to mind all do RP or blogging .. So maybe a lot of the public who joins SL see that and identify with that and join SL  looking for that. Maybe if there were more creators  producing a variety of content from SL to other  platforms ,more people who identified with that content  would join more ? 

Since coming back to SL I haven't encountered anything / anyone to do with bloodlines or gore in world.I also don't know if it's just  my impression but when I first joined SL people were a lot more social, and I ended up meeting  people that had all sorts of interests. Now a days I get the impression that  people are slightly more closed of and  if you dont' know to look for something you won't find it. This is all just one big guess...

I think this is probably correct. Both Bloodlines and Gor were huge back in the day, but seem to have been a bit faddish. Looking at numbers at the two links Silent posted above, I get the sense the Gorean community has dwindled generally.

I think that the closest equivalent these days is D/s and BDSM, in all of its flavors (but mainly casual and not "by the book" either). They've always been around but are, I think, a lot more prevalent and visible than they once were. 

[Persephone Emerald]

I think roleplay in general has fallen off in SL. We just don't have enough people interested in it to keep a RP sim going, especially with the cost of regions and a poor economy in RL.

As a cost-saving measure, many people have given up their mainland or islands, moving to a Premium Linden Home in Bellisseria instead. With some kinds of RP, these homes could be used instead of a RP sim. I keep seeing one Newbrook Home in particular selling Gorian food, wine and ale, though maybe Chalet Homes could look more medieval?

California is expensive too, btw, not so much for heating costs - but for rent, gasoline, cooling expenses, and medical costs that are not covered by the government.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think this is probably correct. Both Bloodlines and Gor were huge back in the day, but seem to have been a bit faddish. Looking at numbers at the two links Silent posted above, I get the sense the Gorean community has dwindled generally.

I think that the closest equivalent these days is D/s and BDSM, in all of its flavors (but mainly casual and not "by the book" either). They've always been around but are, I think, a lot more prevalent and visible than they once were. 

Particularly, the babygirl/daddy aspect of D/s.  Everyone seems to have jumped on the bandwagon in the last several years.  Before that, every sub was bi which doesn't seem to be the case anymore or at least they don't advertise it like they used to.  🙄

[Coffee Pancake]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:38 AM, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I was just wondering why , when I log on Second Life lately, literally find many places that used to be busy completely deserted. I joined a Nice Gor Panther group in a connected region of 8 sims about a month ago. But in the last fortnight I find the camp deserted with no one coming to camp for hours. Some Aircraft airports in Blakes seas is also devoid of anyone in my UK time zone.

While everyone here misses the point and debates Gor.

What's left of Gor is quiet because everyone left. They are on discord and play other games, Conan exiles with mods being one. The only Goreans left in SL are the fringes trying to keep one foot in more than one world.

This place was stagnant and expensive so they found somewhere better.

It's that simple and has nothing to do with Gor (etc) being faddish (it's not), or anything else the 'armchair generals' opining on the forums might imagine or project.

 

Now ask what happened to the furry and anime communities ... 

[Randall Ahren]

15 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This place was stagnant and expensive so they found somewhere better.

Yes, but the mentor program has returned. So while SL may remain expensive, it will no longer be stagnant due to all the new residents joining.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The only Goreans left in SL are the fringes trying to keep one foot in more than one world.

So, all it would take is a gentle push then?

[Luna Bliss]

23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

'armchair generals' opining on the forums

Please Coffee, can you opine about something besides more sex and slavery here?

[Arielle Popstar]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, all it would take is a gentle push then?

so reducing the population even more and one less reason for new people to come to SL, resulting in those who look to clean up SL of any adult activities that they don't like,  getting bored and go off to look for new worlds to clean up.

[Kathlen Onyx]

How many threads do we need to discuss this in? It seems to creep into every thread.