Casino in Second Life? is Gambling Back?

[Love Zhaoying]

Maybe, since it's NOT "real" gambling, LL gets a pass on the age-appropriate / morals aspect. Heck, my church had a "Casino Night" one New Year's Eve. Of course, that was "not for profit" (depending on your definition).

[Skyler Pancake]

This is abusive. Flat out abusive. This is Linden Labs trying to profit off of people who will become addicted to gambling or who already have an addiction.

 

I live in a city with a bunch of casinos and although I'm not a gambler myself I have no issues with people who decide to do so responsibly. After all, they have the chance to actually profit off it. There's a, slim, potential for them to actually get something in return for winning and making their lives better.

 

The only return here is a dopamine hit when you win. This is straight up profiteering off of addicts.

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Linden Lab Official:Teens in Second Life
"16-17 years old you can access regions and search results that have a General maturity rating."

The legal gambling age in the US varies by state and by the type of game. For Lotteries it's 18, but for most slot machines and casinos it's  21.
Of course online gaming is kind of the wild west. Legally it's 18, but as long as a minor can get their parent's credit card, they can probably play.
It's the same with playing as an adult in SL.

https://www.casino.org/local/guide/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230619/

https://www.legalgamblingages.com/legal-gambling-age-for/california.html
"Legal Online Casinos For California Residents

California residents can legally gamble online using licensed international platforms like Bovada and BetOnline. The California Legislature has not yet succeeded in authorizing in-state operators to offer online gambling, so for the time being, these international platforms are the only option. Thankfully, these online platforms offer better and payouts, better customer service, and a wider variety of playing options. Additionally, online gambling is a very competitive market, so these websites all offer players unique and valuable promotions like free play credits and deposit matches."

 

[Persephone Emerald]

17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe, since it's NOT "real" gambling, LL gets a pass on the age-appropriate / morals aspect. Heck, my church had a "Casino Night" one New Year's Eve. Of course, that was "not for profit" (depending on your definition).

Did they at least have prizes?

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

I do have a feeling a Mod or 3 seen these threads on the gambling thing and sent it up to the higher brass --- who's probably discussing or preparing a carefully worded post regarding this issue.

One of my patrons in my bar works for the SLGA (Saskatchewan Liqour and Gaming Authority) and I showed him the SL casino thing and asked if it violates any gaming laws in the province.  He said probably not, but will get back to me.

They have gotten on some MMOs on their loot boxes and if you log on one of those games in the province, those are missing from their cash shop. If on a VPN (like I do) you may see them though. 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Did they at least have prizes?

I think so, plus a silent auction. I don't remember the actual gambling part, except that there were games and rented slots. I was just there to help out, not to enjoy it (would have rather been at the bar, in those years).

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The legal gambling age in the US varies by state and by the type of game. For Lotteries it's 18, but for most slot machines and casinos it's  21.
Of course online gaming is kind of the wild west. Legally it's 18, but as long as a minor can get their parent's credit card, they can probably play.
It's the same with playing as an adult in SL.

https://www.casino.org/local/guide/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230619/

https://www.legalgamblingages.com/legal-gambling-age-for/california.html
"Legal Online Casinos For California Residents

California residents can legally gamble online using licensed international platforms like Bovada and BetOnline. The California Legislature has not yet succeeded in authorizing in-state operators to offer online gambling, so for the time being, these international platforms are the only option. Thankfully, these online platforms offer better and payouts, better customer service, and a wider variety of playing options. Additionally, online gambling is a very competitive market, so these websites all offer players unique and valuable promotions like free play credits and deposit matches."

 

The young'uns aren't going to groom themselves y'know.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I do have a feeling a Mod or 3 seen these threads on the gambling thing and sent it up to the higher brass --- who's probably discussing or preparing a carefully worded post regarding this issue.

One of my patrons in my bar works for the SLGA (Saskatchewan Liqour and Gaming Authority) and I showed him the SL casino thing and asked if it violates any gaming laws in the province.  He said probably not, but will get back to me.

They have gotten on some MMOs on their loot boxes and if you log on one of those games in the province, those are missing from their cash shop. If on a VPN (like I do) you may see them though. 

Possibly it will turn out to be an "experiment", which "ended successfully". If LL needed funds that bad, we could have put on a bake sale..

[animats]

Problem gambling site - worth a read

"In the last few years, children and teenagers have gained much more access to mobile phones and tablet devices that allow them to play games for hours at a time at home. These games, often relying on chance or minimal skill, can keep the child’s attention for long stretches of time ... These games, even when centered on pets, candy and other harmless themes, recreate some of the same emotions and excitement experienced by gamblers. The games build competition among online friends and strangers that drive children and teenagers to keep playing until they beat more levels or otherwise make progress. The games often allow players to earn fake money or other prizes that can be traded for an opportunity at winning more, replicating a real-life gambling opportunity. Many mobile games allow children to pay real money for game boosters and tips – making children sacrifice cash for games that will never produce any real value for them in return."
 

Edited May 9, 2023 by animats

[animats]

Public service announcement about Social Casino games, from New South Wales.

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, animats said:

Public service announcement about Social Casino games, from New South Wales.

 

Anyone underage isn't allowed in Moderate regions so it's not really them we need to be concerned with in respect to this particular thing in SL.  It's the adults who already have a gambling problem.  Even winning more worthless tokens might give them the same rush.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

I do see this Linden casino thing biting the Lab in the rear.

[Innula Zenovka]

49 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The legal gambling age in the US varies by state and by the type of game. For Lotteries it's 18, but for most slot machines and casinos it's  21.
Of course online gaming is kind of the wild west. Legally it's 18, but as long as a minor can get their parent's credit card, they can probably play.
It's the same with playing as an adult in SL.

https://www.casino.org/local/guide/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230619/

https://www.legalgamblingages.com/legal-gambling-age-for/california.html
"Legal Online Casinos For California Residents

California residents can legally gamble online using licensed international platforms like Bovada and BetOnline. The California Legislature has not yet succeeded in authorizing in-state operators to offer online gambling, so for the time being, these international platforms are the only option. Thankfully, these online platforms offer better and payouts, better customer service, and a wider variety of playing options. Additionally, online gambling is a very competitive market, so these websites all offer players unique and valuable promotions like free play credits and deposit matches."

 

I think we can be reasonably confident that LL's internal and external legal advisors are satisfied that these games aren't caught by any US federal or local legislation concerning online gambling.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Anyone underage isn't allowed in Moderate regions so it's not really them we need to be concerned with in respect to this particular thing in SL.  It's the adults who already have a gambling problem.  Even winning more worthless tokens might give them the same rush.

I think the place I get lost is, accepting or believing that underage people aren't all over Second Life. Sure, LL isn't "responsible" for that. But the fact they aren't allowed doesn't mean they aren't there.

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: For extra tokens, make users watch videos about the benefits of Premium membership, Land ownership, etc. Like a timeshare does, when you go to get the prize they mailed you about. 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I think we can be reasonably confident that LL's internal and external legal advisors are satisfied that these games aren't caught by any US federal or local legislation concerning online gambling.

Imagined conversation between LL and lawyers: "Look, it's not actually any fun. So, it can't possibly be harmful or addictive, right?" "Hmm, so long as you can also guarantee that it's not entertaining.."

Edited May 9, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

I am definitely in the "don't the Linden's have better things to do with their time and resources" camp.

Yeah, this, in spades.

Will this help LL's bottom line by attracting people who enjoy gambling games?

Maybe, but I'm doubtful.

Does it in any way enhance this platform?

Absolutely not.

Ethical issues aside (and those are important: I'm not dismissing them), this is the best proof I've seen that LL has moved well past the starry-eyed "Let's make a magical world for people!" stage of its development, and are deep into the "How do we juice this for my profits" endgame.

It is dispiriting, to say the least.

[EliseAnne85]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ethical issues aside (and those are important: I'm not dismissing them), this is the best proof I've seen that LL has moved well past the starry-eyed "Let's make a magical world for people!" stage of its development, and are deep into the "How do we juice this for my profits" endgame.

Well, I doubt the profit is because "they need to eat".  They've probably set this up because they need or want to put their kids through college and profits are way down for most businesses in this post-Covid and wartime world.  The U.S. is broke; we've hit the debt ceiling.  They should sell the business to someone who *can* whether this financial storm we are all in if profits are indeed the problem.  This is so bizarre - spending money to lose and to where one can never cash out back into lindens.   To me, it's like throwing money away.

If it's role play, it's way expensive role play.  If there is more than meets the eye here as to what is actually going on, perhaps we will hear from them soon as this is causing quite a stir.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[BillFletcher]

7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

I am definitely in the "don't the Linden's have better things to do with their time and resources" camp.

but did they actually come up with this and do it, or did someone else do this using their platform? There are lots of things going on in SL that to me are a lot sketchier than a virtual casino. I haven't been there but I might just check this out. 

[Anaryane]

The amounts are mind-blowing, the largest is equivalent to $41, which is about the same at home without taxes (I'm French). A long time ago, a friend had taken me to a gambling hall to relax and chat, but we only paid $1 or $2 a game and the machines returned part of the bets, and I don't see anything too bad if we don't don't stay long. However, I currently do not understand Linden's policy for the past few months and fortunately the community is reacting so as not to suffer their arbitrary choices. As much as you discuss laws in the United States, but shouldn't those in the rest of the world also be considered?

We pay to have l$, but we can transfer to our bank account / paypal etc., the money we have or get if I'm not mistaken, even if less interesting outside the United States . Therefore, this cannot be considered insignificant in relation to addictions.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Anaryane

[EliseAnne85]

12 minutes ago, BillFletcher said:

but did they actually come up with this and do it, or did someone else do this using their platform? There are lots of things going on in SL that to me are a lot sketchier than a virtual casino. I haven't been there but I might just check this out. 

Read other thread, it has screenshots and more info on it.  There are two threads going at this time on this topic.

It's the So They Banned Gacha, But...thread.  

Edited May 9, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Chic Aeon]

You know there is a reason I still come to these forums -- and this is it. Thank you for this thread.  

I went over there in "investigative reporter" mode, took some pictures, did some snooping. Found at least one person that didn't read the "this is not real - you cannot cash out" message (uncountably the norm, not the exception). 

 

The most interesting thing that I found, not mentioned here unless I missed it, is that this venue  while listed as being owned by a Linden is NOT ON MAINLAND. It is private estate land.  It seems that the Lindens have plenty of power to control things without using private lands.  Even the EEP settings could be changed now and the sandy landscaping could be mesh.   A puzzle.   

Edited May 10, 2023 by Chic Aeon
spelling

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

You know there is a reason I still come to these forums -- and this is it. Thank you for this thread.  

I went over there in "investigative reporter" mode, took some pictures, did some snooping. Found at least one person that didn't read the "this is not real - you cannot cash out" message (uncountably the norm, not the exception). 

 

The most interesting thing that I found, not mentioned here unless I missed it, is that this venue  while listed as being owned by a Linden is NOT ON MAINLAND. It is private estate land.  It seems that the Lindens have plenty of power to control things without using private lands.  Even the EEP settings could be changed now and the sandy landscaping could be mesh.   A puzzle.   

Your investigative reporting may suggest that the enterprise was a "partnership" between LL and some non-LL persons.
 

Or perhaps, placing the casino "offshore" instead of on Mainland has indirect reasons, such as avoiding possible controversy due to perceived conflict with any particular Mainland covenant. 

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, this, in spades.

Will this help LL's bottom line by attracting people who enjoy gambling games?

Maybe, but I'm doubtful.

Does it in any way enhance this platform?

Absolutely not.

Ethical issues aside (and those are important: I'm not dismissing them), this is the best proof I've seen that LL has moved well past the starry-eyed "Let's make a magical world for people!" stage of its development, and are deep into the "How do we juice this for my profits" endgame.

It is dispiriting, to say the least.

59 minutes ago, BillFletcher said:

but did they actually come up with this and do it, or did someone else do this using their platform? There are lots of things going on in SL that to me are a lot sketchier than a virtual casino. I haven't been there but I might just check this out. 

If regular SL users get sucked into online gaming with this venture, who benefits and who loses?

Linden Lab could see a short term benefit when people spend a bit of money to play, but then they realize they can't really win anything, so they stop.
What would these people do next? Possibly look into real online gaming, where they could actually win some money.
They then leave SL to play online gaming and spend their money there instead of in SL.

Who benefits then? The online gaming companies. Why would Linden Lab want them to benefit rather than getting users to spend their time and money in SL?
Maybe one of their new investors is involved in online gaming? Maybe they're trying to set up a case study to promote Tilla to online gaming companies?

It seems very fishy to me that someone at Linden Lab thinks it's a good idea to promote online gaming through the SL platform, which is what this venue does.

Another possible scenario might be that LL is considering taking over the skills gaming sector of SL for themselves.
Maybe this is a test case/ trial run? If it becomes popular, they might kick out the private skills gaming groups?

Maybe LL is planning to go more Adult, 18 years + ?  If they'd have to jump through too many legal hoops to allow 16 and 17 year olds in SL, maybe they plan to cater to more profitable Adult interests instead?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Katherine Heartsong]

So, here's a question ...

Can anyone do the same and set up a casino now? Exactly like this one? Same games, same rules, same pay to play? Only difference is that those L to buy tokens go to a resident?