Casino in Second Life? is Gambling Back?

[Sorina Garrigus]

23 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

One would think so, but this region is Moderate. Obviously roleplay sex is not ok for minors, but roleplay gambling totally is. 🎰

ummm that is because of pedophiles. Come on now.  OMG

Edited May 10, 2023 by Sorina Garrigus

[Ayashe Ninetails]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think there's something to this.

I should start by saying that I have never played a casino, and pretty much certainly never will, but I've walked through them before, and found them deeply depressing, and an outright assault on my senses. But I get that some people love the ambiance -- the noise, the tacky decor, the lights, etc.

The LL build is, as you say, of high quality, but it seems to me to be replicating, despite that, the "low end" casino experience -- the banks of flashing slot machines, the painted plaster and paste bling, and the nylon carpeting. And I suppose, as I've noted above, there must be some who want that atmosphere.

But why on earth would there not also be a more lush and expensive-looking area? Something James Bondish? It was awfully hard to imagine 007 or "high rollers" playing in the existing areas. Areas -- maybe accessible only for high stakes players? -- that replicated Monte Carlo or whatever, rather than the casino planted next to the Walmart, might attract RPers, photographers, or, heck, EVEN ME (very short term: I'm not a gambler) -- just to experience it.

As it was, I just found the place dreary and depressing looking.

I'm one of those who loves casino ambiance while actually hating gambling. I'll go for the swank, the lights, the elegance, the lively atmosphere, the shows, the free food and drinks (I don't actually drink, so like - free food and iced teas or whatever), the people watching, the overstimulated senses and quirky machine sounds (I'm good for an hour of that, give or take), the trying to catch a glimpse of who gets let into the VIP lounge 😄.

I've won the few times I've been convinced to play - one time enough to cover expenses for the entire weekend trip, even, but I typically bounce when I'm in $20. I'm that one person who can come tantalizingly close to a million dollar jackpot and miss it by a thread, grab my bag, and say ok what's for dinner, let's go. Zero interest in spending more than a teensy amount of money, but yeah, the environment is pretty sweet.

And even with all that, I totally agree with you. I LOVE the posh, luxurious to the point of ridiculous, dancing water fountain light show in the lobby, twinkling staircase, chandeliers dripping with crystals opulence of it all, so maybe if it had all that (and especially like you said, eye candy for photographers), I'd be willing to give it a whirl *without* playing anything. Just get all dressed up and spend an evening taking photos for funsies.

But between the atmosphere and everything else brought up in these threads, I'm good giving it a miss.

[Sorina Garrigus]

On 5/9/2023 at 12:04 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

no value when it's up to  9.999 L$ to play for addiction sensitive people?... this is absurd.

Gambling addiction is about risking actual money to win actual money. It is absurd to pay for fake money but there are app games that do this ... why I dunno it is equally pointless. But the damage is only done when those that don't have self control actually gambling. If there is no winning of money there is no gambling. But I Do find paying for credits to be absurd. I see it as buying video game tokens at an arcade but don't see why people would buy that much ... they can go elsewhere to play skill games instead. 

[Qie Niangao]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But why on earth would there not also be a more lush and expensive-looking area? Something James Bondish? It was awfully hard to imagine 007 or "high rollers" playing in the existing areas. Areas -- maybe accessible only for high stakes players? -- that replicated Monte Carlo or whatever, rather than the casino planted next to the Walmart, might attract RPers, photographers, or, heck, EVEN ME (very short term: I'm not a gambler) -- just to experience it.

I hate that there are two threads. I just posted:

Quote

To do it right we need a retro Monte Carlo casino. James Bond dress code: dinner jackets and evening gowns. An Aston Martin dealership just down the road.

 

[Sorina Garrigus]

23 hours ago, Skyler Pancake said:

This is abusive. Flat out abusive. This is Linden Labs trying to profit off of people who will become addicted to gambling or who already have an addiction.

 

I live in a city with a bunch of casinos and although I'm not a gambler myself I have no issues with people who decide to do so responsibly. After all, they have the chance to actually profit off it. There's a, slim, potential for them to actually get something in return for winning and making their lives better.

 

The only return here is a dopamine hit when you win. This is straight up profiteering off of addicts.

Gambling addicts actually go somewhere to gamble with something. They can go to a RL game store and buy a video poker game now. or get an app on their phone. There is no return it isn't remotely gambling. 

[Love Zhaoying]

It has ocurred to me that unlike RL, and unlike with L$, there is probably no way to "abandon" your "Social Casino Tokens".

Sure, you could dump it all on a bad bet, but you can't give it to someone else; you can't toss it into the street; you can't put it in a church's collection plate; you can't give it to a "homeless person"; you can't use it to tip the bartender or "cigarette girl".

Worst.Roleplay.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

To do it right we need a retro Monte Carlo casino. James Bond dress code: dinner jackets and evening gowns. An Aston Martin dealership just down the road.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas, gimme.

[EliseAnne85]

55 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If gachas / loot boxes count as "gambling," then surely so would prizes at the casino? It's still "winning something of value," even if it's no transfer.

The irony is that the "rules" make it possible to set up a game where you can only lose money, but never win anything of value for it.

I thought in the TOS when it said "or value" it meant the value was that it could be turned into lindens or real life currency.  What is the value in something that one cannot sell for lindens or real world currency?  What does it mean there by value?  People give out giftcards at events, that has value.  Any idea how to define value here in the TOS if a person can only keep it in their inventory or use it for themselves?

If the "payout" involves objects that are more akin to novelty objects that cannot readily be converted into Linden dollars, real-world currency or value, then that activity will likely be permitted.

Edited May 10, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Sorina Garrigus]

20 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

So, here's a question ...

Can anyone do the same and set up a casino now? Exactly like this one? Same games, same rules, same pay to play? Only difference is that those L to buy tokens go to a resident?

Answer ... yes. It has been that way in SL. As long as those tokens aren't used to cash out to linden or real dollars. This is how video arcades worked in the 80s and 90s. you go you pay you play. Just don't try a loophole system is all. Keep in mind most gambling laws include the term "or thing of value". So you can't turn the tokens into say a prim chair or something. 
Why people would want to pay for credits ... I dunno. there is some fun but things like slots are non existent fun if money isn't involved so don't see the point. you are just pulling a handle and looking at flashy lights. I find slots borring in real casinos even though they are very popular. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I LOVE the posh, luxurious to the point of ridiculous, dancing water fountain light show in the lobby, twinkling staircase, chandeliers dripping with crystals opulence of it all, so maybe if it had all that (and especially like you said, eye candy for photographers), I'd be willing to give it a whirl *without* playing anything. Just get all dressed up and spend an evening taking photos for funsies.

This is kind of the annoying thing about this is that it comes so close to being just "fun," but instead misses the mark, and manages to be a bit gross and sleazy without possessing the kind of appeal that a nicely put-together place might have.

I'd LOVE to dress up for a nicely rendered high-end casino of the sort @Qie Niangaodescribes. I don't really RP, but I could "play" a clever cigarette girl working her way through college, a swanky double agent, or even a bubble-brained blonde if need be for long enough to make it fun! (The bubble-brained blonde wouldn't even require effort!)

What we need is a really great looking place where the games are free and the ambiance is conducive to just having FUN.

[Sorina Garrigus]

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, as I said, I've walked through a couple in my time. Those had made some attempt to look "ritzy," but in the same kind of way that a cheap club or restaurant will substitute "tacky" for expensive and tasteful.

Certainly, again, the SociaCasino is generally well-made. It looked much nicer than one from 2007 must have looked, for instance. But it was still . . . very meh. In my view. And definitely not a place where you'd want to RP, say, a spy story, or a Prohibition-Era backroom at a Speak. They can do better.

A good prohibition erra speak easy looking place should look far more ghetto and sketchy which can be fun if you do it right. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I thought in the TOS when it said "or value" it meant the value was that it could be turned into lindens or real life currency.  What is the value in something that one cannot sell for lindens or real world currency?  What does it mean there by value?  People give out giftcards at events, that has value.  Any idea how to define value here in the TOS if a person can only keep it in their inventory or use it for themselves?

If the "payout" involves objects that are more akin to novelty objects that cannot readily be converted into Linden dollars, real-world currency or value, then that activity will likely be permitted.

I don't know, Elise, how this might be interpreted. The "value" in an object doesn't just reside, surely, in the money that one might be able to make for it on resale? I spend real money on a ton of things in SL that are no-transfer: their value is intrinsic rather than potential.

[Love Zhaoying]

Hmm...I just thought of "a point".

Assume: There really will be a new "class" of business, the "Social Casino", which must use the new Linden Tokens.

Only LL makes money off those tokens! It's not like LL will let YOU sell the Tokens!

So, your "side hustle" - be it tips, entertainment, roleplay, etc. will be the only motivation to install the Social Casino System.

'Cause you won't be making any money off of it.

Unless LL give you a "cut", then it's no better than one of the "Multi-Level Marketing" in-world schemes. So I doubt that wil happen.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

A good prohibition erra speak easy looking place should look far more ghetto and sketchy which can be fun if you do it right. 

Oh, definitely. The period touches are what it's all about.

For that matter, I'd be attracted to a Mississippi Delta juke joint set in a shack with a corrugated metal roof if it looked right.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What we need is a really great looking place where the games are free and the ambiance is conducive to just having FUN.

There's another use-case for letting you give the Tokens to OTHER users:

1) Business sets up a Social Casino.

2) Business says, "Come here and play for FREE!!!"

3) Business buys Social Casino Tokens and GIVES them to users to "stay and have fun". (Presumably so they will spend "actual" L$ on other stuff while there.)

4) Users spend the Social Casino Tokens, hopefully at the same spot.

5) Users played FREE.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

4 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

A good prohibition erra speak easy looking place should look far more ghetto and sketchy which can be fun if you do it right. 

Oh, definitely. The period touches are what it's all about.

For that matter, I'd be attracted to a Mississippi Delta juke joint set in a shack with a corrugated metal roof if it looked right.

Maybe we can get Patch to license a Squeak-Easy.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is kind of the annoying thing about this is that it comes so close to being just "fun," but instead misses the mark, and manages to be a bit gross and sleazy without possessing the kind of appeal that a nicely put-together place might have.

I'd LOVE to dress up for a nicely rendered high-end casino of the sort @Qie Niangaodescribes. I don't really RP, but I could "play" a clever cigarette girl working her way through college, a swanky double agent, or even a bubble-brained blonde if need be for long enough to make it fun! (The bubble-brained blonde wouldn't even require effort!)

What we need is a really great looking place where the games are free and the ambiance is conducive to just having FUN.

A thousand times yes!!! An environment like that set up entirely for roleplay and photography without costing anyone any money with free games and a lively bar would be amazing!!!!!!! Let's even toss some fun murder mystery dinner whodunnit Clue-type roleplay in there for funsies.

[Love Zhaoying]

I agree that making it "free" would be ideal.

That way, you won't have to sell your kidneys OR your "kids" (down at the "Prim Bank").

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Let's even toss some fun murder mystery dinner whodunnit Clue-type roleplay in there for funsies.

You're pretty brilliant, you know.

So, when will you have this finished? I can hardly WAIT to visit! 😀

[Sorina Garrigus]

21 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If regular SL users get sucked into online gaming with this venture, who benefits and who loses? ... What would these people do next? Possibly look into real online gaming, where they could actually win some money. They then leave SL to play online gaming and spend their money there instead of in SL.

OMG how are you even in SL? You must also think people in adult sims turn into sex workers and strippers in RL.  

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You're pretty brilliant, you know.

So, when will you have this finished? I can hardly WAIT to visit! 😀

Thank you! If only I had that kind of cash. Convince LL to give me a region to build something like that on and I'll think about it. 😂

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

Gambling addicts actually go somewhere to gamble with something. They can go to a RL game store and buy a video poker game now. or get an app on their phone. There is no return it isn't remotely gambling. 

It's still 'winning' tokens so they do win something to give them the rush.

[Sorina Garrigus]

20 hours ago, Istelathis said:

At some point we just have to leave it to people to moderate their own behavior, if someone develops a gambling habit over this, there is little we can do other than just ban it entirely.  Using the same line of reasoning, we could also ban gaming in general, as some people are unable to moderate their gaming habit when it comes to FPS, MMOs, or any games really.  There are entire communities out there, which have been established just for gaming addicts to share their experiences, help one another recover from their addiction, warn others of the impact it has had on them.  Some people have lost their jobs, their homes, their spouses, entire families have been torn apart because some people can not step away from their gaming platform and see to their obligations, responsibilities, and the only thing they care about is staying in the virtual landscape.

I think the same can probably be said about SL, there are certainly people who are addicted to this platform, have spent thousands upon thousands purchasing virtual goods, I'm sure there have been divorces, people who have lost their homes, and so on.  We could go further and move on to the web in general, some people spend all of their time just browsing the web, especially social media sites, they neglect their families, their homes, jobs, etc. 

From an ethical perspective, it sounds good to put up some guard rails to help these people out, but then it comes at the cost of everyone else that have a sense of responsibility, who know when to step away, which puts into question another ethical conundrum.

I'm of the mindset that we can not save people from themselves, at least not without making life really boring for everyone else.

Her mentality goes to how some southern states were in the past a century ago or so where they had playing cards and dice illegal because they MIGHT gamble with them. She is completely thought police minded. 

[EliseAnne85]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't know, Elise, how this might be interpreted. The "value" in an object doesn't just reside, surely, in the money that one might be able to make for it on resale? I spend real money on a ton of things in SL that are no-transfer: their value is intrinsic rather than potential.

I think it means monetary value because it says in the TOS "as long as it cannot be readily converted".  It's like when we have things in our home and we can sell them, they have value.  It's poorly worded as per the usual of most TOS, imo.  But, we don't need to debate the definition of it.  Value is subjective such as some people loved Beanie Babies, others hated them.  I think it means money really, such as I could say "I'm going to keep this for a few years as I think it will go up in value".  

VALUE Definition:

relative worth, merit, or importance:the value of a college education; the value of a queen in chess.

monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade:This piece of land has greatly increased in value.

the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange.

equivalent worth or return in money, material, services, etc.:to give value for value received.

 

SL TOS:

 

If the "payout" involves objects that are more akin to novelty objects that cannot readily be converted into Linden dollars, real-world currency or value, then that activity will likely be permitted.

Edited May 10, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

You must also think people in adult sims turn into sex workers and strippers in RL.  

Most people need very little reason in RL to strip their clothes off and have sex. That's where babies come from!