Casino in Second Life? is Gambling Back?

[Rowan Amore]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/addicted-losing-how-casino-apps-have-drained-people-millions-n1239604

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/addicted-losing-how-casino-apps-have-drained-people-millions-n1239604

I didn't even see that was from 2020. How in the world have I not heard of these things in all this time?!

Candy Crush and the like, yes. But the casino apps and how they work - nope!

[EliseAnne85]

19 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But you CAN win...tokens.  It's the winning that seems to be the addictive aspect and not WHAT is won.  You don't win money in Candy Crush either but people still.spend a LOT of money to win levels or whatever.  

It's beginning to sound a little like loot boxes then or Gacha even, although with Gacha at least one could sell or trade the item they didn't like.  Loot boxes eventually just became full of junk that wasn't even useable for the character nor to advance in the game and people were spending a lot of money on those as well just to lose like this premise until eventually parents and others began to say "no more" and were trying to ban those loot boxes - because it was an addiction to losing.  

Edited May 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Love Zhaoying]

It's starting to seem like LL just wants their cut of the action.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

This is a game where no one can win money.  That winning part is gone.  Some say it's like a game Candy Crush which I've heard of that is pseudo-gambling too.  I just don't see how it could be as addictive as the real thing where one can win big and win it all and be rich! 

I don't know, I find it to be entertaining but that is about it.  For me, it is free entertainment, not very involving, something I can just relax and enjoy for a short period of time that does not require an investment.  It is more like a very simple arcade that I play for free, or board game such as monopoly.  The prize is just tokens, which is more like a personal highscore, but not visible to anyone, and if I found that I was losing all of the time I would probably just grow frustrated and bored with it.  I don't see how it could be addictive, not to the point that I would want to spend hours a day playing, where I was being neglectful of responsibilities, or wasting real money, so it confuses me as well.

I've never really felt the desire to spend real money in games, even in SL I don't often put down very much money, I usually just pay for my premium membership as I can justify the expense for time value.  I will pay subscriptions for some games, for a period of time, but as far as microtransactions, it is just not something I have ever really invested in.. even in WoW I did not find myself purchasing items in their store, with the exception of a mount one time, and I have been playing that game on and off for more than a decade.  Sometimes I will pay for Linden, but even that is not very often.  

I do know some people like playing with others, and betting much more tokens than I do, but that is more social than what the apps seem to be.  The risk involved is probably what is entertaining for them, winning in front of others might be tempting, or just showboating how much linden they have could be fun.  

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Istelathis

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

It's beginning to sound a little like loot boxes then or Gacha even, although with Gacha at least one could sell or trade the item they didn't like.  Loot boxes eventually just became full of junk that wasn't even useable for the character nor to advance in the game and people were spending a lot of money on those as well just to lose like this premise until eventually parents and others began to say "no more" and were trying to ban those loot boxes - because it was an addiction to losing.  

It's not at all like loot boxes or gachas.  It's purely a money making scheme.  It's like paying to ride a roller coaster.  Pay your money, get a thrill, pay again to get more thrill, leave with absolutely nothing whatsoever except the need for more thrills.  Pay again, etc, etc, etc.

With loot boxes and gachas, at least you got something even if it wasn't what you wanted.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

It's not at all like loot boxes or gachas.  It's purely a money making scheme.  It's like paying to ride a roller coaster.  Pay your money, get a thrill, pay again to get more thrill, leave with absolutely nothing whatsoever except the need for more thrills.  Pay again, etc, etc, etc.

With loot boxes and gachas, at least you got something even if it wasn't what you wanted.

100%. Lootboxes and gachas give you something tangible for your money. You just have no idea what it is until you get it.

Buy this mystery bundle of games for $5! Guaranteed to get 2 games. You spend your $5 and have no idea what you got until you view your receipt and claim your Steam keys. It may or may not have been worth your $5. That's a lootbox.

With the casinos, you know your $5 is going to earn you more tokens to play the games. You play to win more tokens. You run out of tokens and buy more tokens. Tokens for days. Nothin' but tokens. Not a lootbox.

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's starting to seem like LL just wants their cut of the action.

I agree and, as every single article I've read about them states, they are predatory.  

I've always said LL is a business and a business' aim is to make money.  Fee increases, we hate but somewhat understand as all businesses increase fees to offset costs.  Pay for a new name?  Fine, it's a choice you make with a hefty charge.  Premium accounts?  Sure, if it's of value to you and you DO get something for your money.  Purchase a private estate?  Again, if you can afford it and you get somewhere all your own in SL.

Social Casino?  Give them money and you get nothing of value...at all.

[Persephone Emerald]

52 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am constantly reminded of "The Game" in ST:TNG. (Except, it stimulated a person's 'happy' as a "prize".)

In RL that's dopamine. As long as someone gets a sense of achievement there will be a neurochemical reward. 

If someone responds to or likes a post I've made, that makes me feel happy because dopamine floods my brain.  People get the same kind of rush from winning a game, getting a complement, finding something they like on sale, making a good meal, or finding a good parking place. There doesn't have to be money involved for something to be addictive.

People are attracted to different activities, but the neurochemical mechanism for behavioral addictions is the same. It's the same rush whether it's gambling, a video game, scrolling through Facebook, internet porn, or SL sex.

[EliseAnne85]

27 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's not at all like loot boxes or gachas.  It's purely a money making scheme.  It's like paying to ride a roller coaster.  Pay your money, get a thrill, pay again to get more thrill, leave with absolutely nothing whatsoever except the need for more thrills.  Pay again, etc, etc, etc.

With loot boxes and gachas, at least you got something even if it wasn't what you wanted.

I was thinking "kind of" like loot boxes or Gachas but there is a but.  With super minor Gacha players who would throw 50 linden at a machine perhaps once a month we knew our odds were to lose but it wasn't all that much so I did that every once in a while - threw some money at a Gacha machine but I also looked at it as even though I know I probably won't get what I want, I'm supporting the creator by occasionally giving them some lindens in lieu of them not having a tip jar out.  But, I was never addicted to it.  I mostly bought second-hand what I wanted.  But, I think I see a link in addicted to lose here because of so many posts on Gacha I saw on this forum that said I never get what I want - so it was a lose game to most and most people couldn't be bothered with reselling it or trading it.  With loot boxes, same, people knew mostly lose, but for some reason kept buying them.

 

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

But, I think I see a link in addicted to lose here because of so many posts on Gacha I saw on this forum that said I never get what I want - so it was a lose game to most and most people couldn't be bothered with reselling it or trading it.  With loot boxes, same, people knew mostly lose, but for some reason kept buying them.

 

It's not an addiction to loss.  It's the hope of winning that's the addiction in all of this.  Whether it's what you wanted or not, whether it's tokens...it's that hope that keeps them playing.

Might be a handful of masochists who are addicted to loss but that's a whole other thread for the adult section.  😁

[Eirynne Sieyes]

My account is Adult.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Qie Niangao]

5 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

["It seems you've searched for something outside our TOS, or outside your current maturity settings"]

My account is Adult.

Yeah. "Casino" is still a forbidden word in Search, and cannot match query text. That's left over from when the real gambling casinos were chased off the grid (because they're illegal in many jurisdictions and heavily regulated almost everywhere), replaced by the segregated "skill game" regions.

It's interesting the Lab hasn't changed that, now that they're in the "Social Casino" business.

[Arielle Popstar]

17 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's not an addiction to loss.  It's the hope of winning that's the addiction in all of this.  Whether it's what you wanted or not, whether it's tokens...it's that hope that keeps them playing.

Might be a handful of masochists who are addicted to loss but that's a whole other thread for the adult section.  😁

The addiction could well be the mind numbingness of it, without consideration of the potential win or loss. Something that just shuts down the mind to stop it from thinking of things it doesn't want to think about. Similar to the alcoholic who drinks to pass out, black out and oblivion.

[EliseAnne85]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's not an addiction to loss.  It's the hope of winning that's the addiction in all of this.  Whether it's what you wanted or not, whether it's tokens...it's that hope that keeps them playing.

Might be a handful of masochists who are addicted to loss but that's a whole other thread for the adult section.  😁

I'm not talking about people who play over and over and over - that's the addicted.

  I was speaking about the occasional "oh, I'll give this Gacha machine a spin" but in my mind I'm still saying "even though I know I am going to lose and not get the object I want".  I could justify this occasional-use playing by the simple fact the creator did NOT have a tip jar out.  So, I'd spin, full well knowing I am not going to get the prize I want.  But, heck since no tip jar, at least I got a try at getting the object I wanted.  I never got an object I wanted out of any Gacha machine.  It was all lose.  It wasn't until items became second-hand that I got Gachas I wanted.  

I wasn't speaking about those that do keep playing and cannot stop.  That's similar to drinking.  There is no stop mechanism for alcoholics until we create one ourselves and with perseverance utilize our stop mechanism.  

I still see similarities in the playing to lose with all of them.  But, I think there is another addiction in some of these games (Casino, Gacha, Loot Boxes) and it's called "bragging rights".  I think many were addicted to bragging rights.  

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Eirynne Sieyes]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's interesting the Lab hasn't changed that, now that they're in the "Social Casino" business.

 

Exactly!

Edited May 17, 2023 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Arielle Popstar]

26 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The addiction could well be the mind numbingness of it, without consideration of the potential win or loss. Something that just shuts down the mind to stop it from thinking of things it doesn't want to think about. Similar to the alcoholic who drinks to pass out, black out and oblivion.

There is nothing to win here. No name in lights as the day's big winner, no tokens that can be converted to something. The only attraction is that for some who are far advanced in their addictiveness, the "win" is the numbing effect of Spin and Hit, regardless of their outcomes. As such the Lab with this Casino is appealing to those who are mostly past the potential for a dopamine hit and just want a pastime that allows them to shut their brain off to anything but those two alternatives. It is this sort that the Lab is trying to capitalize on. In my own experience and that of people I know, when that sort of state has been reached, one has attained a place where one cannot live in one's own mind and anything that will divert from it, is a welcome relief. It is when the tokens are gone and the "drug" is no longer available to shut off that brain, that we read of those who decide to end it once and for all because that is where it ultimately leads to.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah. "Casino" is still a forbidden word in Search, and cannot match query text. That's left over from when the real gambling casinos were chased off the grid (because they're illegal in many jurisdictions and heavily regulated almost everywhere), replaced by the segregated "skill game" regions.

It's interesting the Lab hasn't changed that, now that they're in the "Social Casino" business.

The Lab did get new owners recently.  Maybe they're the ones who's trying the casino thingy.

[Jaylinbridges]

First, they are called chips that you lose and buy in the social casino.  I have a brilliant idea!  Let's be able to use our chips we made on those jackpots at the casino, in Bellisseria. Since no residents can buy or sell or earn any lindens in Belli, these chips seem like the ideal local currency.  Why even the DJ's could put out tip jars that would accept the golden coins chips!

Edited May 17, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

First, they are called chips that you lose and buy in the social casino.  I have a brilliant idea!  Let's be able to use our chips we made on those jackpots at the casino, in Bellisseria. Since no residents can buy or sell or earn any lindens in Belli, these chips seem like the ideal local currency.  Why even the DJ's could put out tip jars that would accept the golden coins chips!

Hey, I just saw you at the Casino a few minutes ago.

Here's Tasha playing Blackjack. I think she might have a problem.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Jaylinbridges]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Here's Tasha playing Blackjack. I think she might have a problem.

Yes I saw Tasha at the Blackjack table, but was not worried, she seemed lost in card counting.  Just the same I hit the cheap slots far away and won an 80X jackpot on a spin.  Too bad I was only waging 2 chips/bet.

I can outrun a dog any day especially on my hoverboard.

SuperCat.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Skyler Pancake]

We're at almost 40 pages of posts on this subject, over a week in, and there's still not been a single peep out of Linden Lab.

Someone up high is crossing their fingers and chanting "They'll stop talking about it, they'll stop talking about it..."

[Persephone Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Skyler Pancake said:

We're at almost 40 pages of posts on this subject, over a week in, and there's still not been a single peep out of Linden Lab.

Someone up high is crossing their fingers and chanting "They'll stop talking about it, they'll stop talking about it..."

Has there been any moderator action since last week though? Maybe something more important is going on, so they've been told to ignore us completely?

I'm gonna guess (just for fun) that one of the new financial backers really wanted this social casino thing to take off, but now Twitter and the forums think it's bad - very bad. Maybe the people who study addicts thought SL users would provide great data, but we don't. I bet (pun intended) only a few people have spent real money at that casino, and the backers don't care about users who won't spend money on their games.

My advice to the Lindens behind this experiment is to drastically lower the betting and spending limits, add free drinks at the bar, and add a spot where people can spend their chips on little non-transferable prizes (so still not anything of "value").  Blackjack dealers would be a nice touch too.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Istelathis]

9 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Has there been any moderator action since last week though? Maybe something more important is going on, so they've been told to ignore us completely?

I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen moderation in a while.  Although I have mostly been sticking to the casino threads as of late, and the two of them have remained relatively civil as far as I have seen, as well as have remained on topic.  

Plus I mean, we are probably bringing more people to the casino than anything else.  We are better than advertisements or blog entries as people get curious about what all the fuss is about and go exploring for themselves.

Alternatively, perhaps the moderation has been replaced by AI 😨  It is now all automated!  SL bots now run the show!  😜

[Love Zhaoying]

30 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Has there been any moderator action since last week though? Maybe something more important is going on, so they've been told to ignore us completely?

Yes, I've seen a few instances where Mods would delete posts and email me and someone else, and where Mods would delete entire threads if you reported them.