The bot war is over and the bot farmers have won :-(

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Done worries cuz it's ominous so nobuddy gonna find out who takes it..

..anonymous?

It certainly WOULD be "ominous"!

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..anonymous?

It certainly WOULD be "ominous"!

Ya, zactly what I said, Nominots doo doo dododo

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Without strict enforcement concerning Scripted Agent status being properly marked, there's not a single thing Linden Lab can do to truly keep actual bad actors from doing what they do.

THIS^^^

So, until that happens, if it ever does, the only way to keep your not so personal information private and not obtainable by random bots is to NOT log in.

[EliseAnne85]

23 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

1)   If you're going to be concerned, focus on the ones that don't have a flashy website, that don't tell you anything whatsoever. Be concerned about the ones using this kerfluffle as a handy cover to annoy and grief others (as has already happened to at least one other user here).

2)  ETA: As far as the Adult Picks and such go? Well if one is that concerned why in the world would you put them into your profile to begin with? They are publicly viewable even if you've opted to not show in LL's own Search!

I need to answer your post as 1) and 2) cos I cannot figure out multi-quoting (I've tried enough times and don't get it)

1)  I suppose you mean unseen bot griefers?  Not much to do but use abuse reporting.  Or, MMO's will decide to be PIOF only or KYC with refundable fee.  

2)  I am not involved with the Adult world but I think many assumed what they put in their profile is for those who loggin only, not for the main web.  I do know SL has it's sexual freedom and this is supposed to be a place to have that freedom.  At least that's how I've viewed it.  It's a very tolerant and expressive place.

Edited March 27, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I need to answer your post as 1) and 2) cos I cannot figure out multi-quoting (I've tried enough times and don't get it)

1)  I suppose you mean unseen bot griefers?  Not much to do but use abuse reporting.  Or, MMO's will decide to be PIOF only or KYC with refundable fee.  

2)  I am not involved with the Adult world but I think many assumed what they put in their profile is for those who loggin only, not for the main web.  I do know SL has it's sexual freedom and this is supposed to be a place to have that freedom.  

1. I mean exactly what I stated: Bot/Scripted Agents which do not have some flashy web page for you to go to and/or those using the current drama as cover for their shenanigans.
2. Even before Linden Lab introduced the (now pretty much defunct) Web Profiles, one could search up a User through the Web. The form this took and the data presented have varied over time but the ability to do so has been around for some time.
   1. Unless a user has placed information anywhere (be it in SL or outside of it) linking their Second Life account to their real life self ... there's not a single thing for them to be concerned about. For those who have made such a link? I wonder why anyone would do such a thing and then complain.

[EliseAnne85]

20 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Even before Linden Lab introduced the (now pretty much defunct) Web Profiles, one could search up a User through the Web. The form this took and the data presented have varied over time but the ability to do so has been around for some time.

Do you mean mysecondlife.com because a search of my name isn't bringing up anything but this forum?  I don't even see the bot website being brought up in a search.  I never opted out with that bot website.  My profile is like watching paint dry so I don't care about any of my profiles but I do care about SL staying adult and not on the main web.  Loggin only to access adult content.  

Edited March 27, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Arielle Popstar]

17 hours ago, Istelathis said:

With that said, bots are not necessary for others to do this, it probably makes it a lot easier though.  The more people know, the better.  Leaving behind a trail for others to follow back to your RL, is incredibly foolish.  

Paranoia or not, people should at the very least knowledgeable not to make it so easy for others to turn them into a target.  

You posted this while I was helping a couple different family members sort their computer and smartphones out after they had again exposed themselves to apps and things on the internet that would put them in a vulnerable position. This is an ongoing and ever increasing battle as people cannot keep up with the tech out there that would allow a snippet of information to be harvested and used to locate and identify them and it is just going to get worse as AI's become smarter and more detailed in organizing data from different sources. What would take an individual years to search out, takes bots and Ai's a day. So even if only one in 10,000 has information on their profile that could lead to a comprimization of one's account or R/L identity/location, it would not take long to find those out.

The onus is going to have to be on reputable companies that have some measure of control of what information is accessible to third parties through such means. Expecting users/residents to not fill out their information honestly when asked in their profiles, especially when the VW is touted as being a social world with real people, is an unrealistic expectation.

[Arielle Popstar]

31 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

THIS^^^

So, until that happens, if it ever does, the only way to keep your not so personal information private and not obtainable by random bots is to NOT log in.

So then these threads are to point out to the Lab that maybe they need to go a little further in protecting the information of its residents. Other companies do so even those who get pulled up in front of congressional hearings regularly to answer charges about playing fast and loose with that data. Shouldn't the Lab keep up with it too?

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Do you mean mysecondlife.com because a search of my name isn't bringing up anything but this forum?  I don't even see the bot website being brought up in a search.  I never opted out with that bot website.  My profile is like watching paint dry so I don't care about any of my profiles but I did and do care about SL staying adult and not on the main web.  Loggin only to access adult content.  

I meant what I typed - unless you're set to not show up in the Web profile system or in a direct Search (through Linden lab's own systems) anyone outside of Second Life can find you easily enough. There is no option at present to prevent someone within the same Region as you, viewing your profile either - that latter being the case does not make the profile "private".

So - Profiles have been viewable on the "Main Web" for quite some time, in one form or another. It has not caused Second Life to become less Adult. Nor will it.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

I meant what I typed - unless you're set to not show up in the Web profile system or in a direct Search (through Linden lab's own systems) anyone outside of Second Life can find you easily enough. There is no option at present to prevent someone within the same Region as you, viewing your profile either - that latter being the case does not make the profile "private".

So - Profiles have been viewable on the "Main Web" for quite some time, in one form or another. It has not caused Second Life to become less Adult. Nor will it.

Yes you are right that web profiles were accessible elsewhere. Those of us in Opensim who used the same name there as here in S/L would find the web profile information from S/L listed in Opensim. It was funny at the time but now with the ever increasing problems with bad actors, it is becoming clear that S/L needs to take a better care of the security of it's resident's data. It has much too lax for too long. They are the ones who should be leading in enhanced security, not having to be pushed by residents worrying about what is being offered out there to one and all.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I feel like I'm watching a tennis match where someone stole all the tennis balls.

[Rowan Amore]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, nothing in my profile will point anyone to my RL whether read inworld or on the web by random people.  Have at it.  Perhaps people should take responsibility for their own actions and stop expecting ever other entity to do so.  Don't want people to know, don't put it on the internet...anywhere.  Internet safety 101 and as adults, you should all know this.

LL seems to protect your RL information perfectly fine since I'm sure we'd hear an uproar if they didn't.

My avatar is secure.  She disappears every day when I log off.  Her profile is generic.  If anything, all LL needs to do is post a warning on profile when new residents emerge that says...anything written on your profile is available to anyone to read.  Fair warning.  Don't be an idiot.

[Candide LeMay]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

If SL had started out PIOF-only, I think it would be just fine today.

SL did start that way, back in the day you had to pay ~10USD (one time fee) for a basic account. It was probably seen by the management as growth limiting and basic accounts became no strings attached sometimes in 2006.

[EliseAnne85]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

ever increasing problems with bad actors, it is becoming clear that S/L needs to take a better care of the security of it's resident's data. It has much too lax for too long. They are the ones who should be leading in enhanced security

What could LL, or any MMO/MMORP, or social media site do to keep from a bot contagion should it ever happen to where it costs the servers too much money, make everything either PIOF or KYC with refundable fee (one could choose one or the other).   What else could they do?

I'm just giving one example were it to happen in the future where, let's say, bots overwhelm the grid or any grid for that matter.  

[Paul Hexem]

I just realized, it really is true- everything MMO's do, SL does it (or fails to do it) 20 years later.

Getting group chat working, streamlining data transfer between users, optimizing network code, web profiles, AI pathfinding, and in-game avatar profiles collected by third parties and posted on the web... It's all stuff MMO's solved decades ago, and SL is just tackling it now.

In the 2000's, addons in the big MMO's that put avatar achievements and gear and guild (group) info on the web. In some cases, the MMO devs themselves made their own, cleaner versions to replace the crappy ones, 'cause there's just no stopping it.

[Istelathis]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The onus is going to have to be on reputable companies that have some measure of control of what information is accessible to third parties through such means. Expecting users/residents to not fill out their information honestly when asked in their profiles, especially when the VW is touted as being a social world with real people, is an unrealistic expectation.

They should be hidden by default, but LL has for some reason not made it so.  The problem also exists that some people want others to know who they are in real life, so removing the profile entirely would not be an option.  Some people like being anonymous in SL, so requiring people to prove they are not a bot by payment, ID, or other means would put off a lot of users. 

Because SL is anonymous, anyone can make bots.  Those who are bad actors, are not going to care about listing their bots as bots, they will just abuse the system to the best of their ability.

Short of making profiles by default private, I suppose LL could limit the number of views an avatar can make on profiles in an allocated amount of time.  

We have to take into consideration all of the factors at play here, do we want an anonymous SL, do we want profiles, do we want to limit the views people can have on profiles, and there are a lot of other factors I am not even touching.  It is never as simple as we want it to be.  

The best course of action we can take, as residents, is to inform people of potential dangers in exposing their real life in second life.

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: Reputable bot companies should code their bots to only operate if the bot has "Scripted Agent" status.

Brilliant! 

[Innula Zenovka]

23 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

No, it hasn't been around that long.  I think you can find SL's 2fa under ACCOUNT but it's called multifactor something or other in SL.  

When it came up in another thread about why ChatGPT requires a phone number to have an account I went to search a little about "bots".  I came across an article that said 2fa was invented because bots became able to read that squiggly line worded Captcha that used to be sent to our emails (like in the screenshot I'll put below).  Bots are more and more eluding the I AM NOT A BOT Captcha techniques.  I also noted in that thread that recently, on a government website, I had to check I AM NOT A BOT twice while filling out the form.  Bots are becoming more and more elusive to detection.  That aspect of bots is kind of a drag.  Again, the below Captcha it is said bots can now read, so it's useless.  And now we have 2fa or multifactor.

 

[EliseAnne85]

14 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

The best course of action we can take, as residents, is to inform people of potential dangers in exposing their real life in second life.

I never took that part of the profile as that we are seriously supposed to put real life information there other than perhaps some things we like or don't like, such as 'love art in real life'.  

I've never read a profile in all my years in SL that revealed anyone's exact rl information but then I'm not a big profile reader.  I do read the profile of my business associates though.  Even when I was just a social avatar in the beginning, I wasn't a big profile reader.  

But, maybe that part of the SL profile should just go.  Some people may not understand it for various reasons.  Perhaps even such as English isn't their first language and they are just trying to go by what the profile asks.  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

New from LL (just dropped this morning): an FAQ and instructions on the new tool to restrict the access of scripted agents.

h/t Gogolita (@gogolita on Twitter).

https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000169561-scripted-agent-estate-access-faq

 

[Paul Hexem]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

New from LL (just dropped this morning): an FAQ and instructions on the new tool to restrict the access of scripted agents.

h/t Gogolita (@gogolita on Twitter).

https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000169561-scripted-agent-estate-access-faq

Ah yes. I'm sure they're going to start acting on reports and enforcing the policy now.

Quote

Please file an abuse report under the Disturbing the Peace category with the scripted agent's name, where they were seen, and when they were seen there. Accurately identifying scripted agents will help us track more accurate account statistics and inworld search results. Thank you!

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

Ah yes. I'm sure they're going to start acting on reports and enforcing the policy now.

 

That -- a reformulation of and (hopefully) reaffirmation of their commitment to policing their policies on scripted agents -- is the second piece of this larger puzzle. Hopefully, that will be forthcoming soon, and will have some actual teeth.

[Lyric Demina]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

New from LL (just dropped this morning): an FAQ and instructions on the new tool to restrict the access of scripted agents.

 

Thanks Scylla

[Lyric Demina]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

We have to take into consideration all of the factors at play here, do we want an anonymous SL, do we want profiles, do we want to limit the views people can have on profiles, and there are a lot of other factors I am not even touching.  It is never as simple as we want it to be. 

It's simple if we as Residents adhere to an opt-in philosophy, which a lot of SL gives us.  Whosoever wishes to fill out a fulsome and detailed and realistic and honest profile should be allowed to do so; since there are people who genuinely wish to be identifiable and who wish to find like-mindeds.  And whosoever wishes to remain anonymous (or "ignored" is really what I mean) should be allowed to do so.   People who wish to opt-in to be searchable by bots, places that wish to opt-in to be searchable by bots, brands who wish to opt-in to have their financials revealed etc... there's a place for them and it's in the "Click Here For Yes" line.  Everybody else can be left in peace as they want to be, or to change their minds and opt-in as they are free to.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I rather wish we could stop employing words like "paranoia" to describe one particular perspective on this issue. It is literally almost the definition of "gaslighting."

It should be possible to discuss this issue from different perspectives without resorting to dismissive and reductive language. Disagree about the importance of bots by all means if you wish, but please stop using this kind of ad homimem. It is neither civil nor constructive. Stick to the issues and the facts, perhaps?