The bot war is over and the bot farmers have won :-(

[EliseAnne85]

14 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

The problem, as already mentioned, is that people simply won't register them as bots.  Unless we're also given an ability to DETECT which avatars are bots, the issue will.persist. 

This is the problem, people not registering their bots and the issue persisting or even escalating the next time.  

When the first few threads appeared about the bots, a Linden recommended we all enable 2fa.  There are some who feel 2fa is too intrusive.  

So, it's not all paranoia or a witch hunt.  Some of us have our payment information on here and socialized engineering scams for hackers are real.  

I'm not even sure if SL going all 2fa would a) Keep the bots out, not to mention b) (the bad side) offend some current residents enough to leave.  

But, the above is really what needs to be figured out.  A way to gain registration of all bots, especially.

Edited March 26, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[AmeliaJ08]

On 3/25/2023 at 2:09 PM, Sid Nagy said:

Look at my current signature:

 

The bots don't talk to you so I'm not sure why you'd try to pursue a relationship with them

[AmeliaJ08]

18 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

My candor about the post you respect and elevate, is it was rude and insulting.  I cannot understand why you would want to elevate such a post and "give 2 thank you's" as you put it.  Let alone stereotype your own community as paranoid.  Many come to the forums with real reasons and needs, and discussion is important.  

What you responded too was a trollist bait post, and it seems to me, the real reason you want to elevate it is to get the thread shut down.

To the OP, in case the thread gets shut down, can you check 'allow PIOF' on your parcel?  You can do that in the meantime to keep the bots out until something else comes along.  Unfortunately, doing that keeps others out with no PIOF as well.  

I feel after seeing someone so, imo, uncaringly agree with a troll to put the whole SL community down, made me feel like the SL community is nothing.  It's all profit that matters.  And, the truth and those in need don't matter.

Calm yourself down, I have an opinion on the paranoia of SLers and it's hardly out there.

And don't just go around calling people trolls for disagreeing with you, you're the one freaking out about a bot collecting public information.

[EliseAnne85]

42 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

And don't just go around calling people trolls for disagreeing with you, you're the one freaking out about a bot collecting public information.

I was not "freaking out" about public information as I have been a small cat, a Dinkie, in SL since about 2016 or so.  My profile has been absolutely nothing to freak out about.  Dinkie's are G to PG players for the most part.  

My posts were in regards to the false information that was publicized by these bots website which they have since taken down.  

And, ad hominin attacks are what trolls do.  I saw your broad-brush response to call SLers paranoid as just that - an ad hominin attack which really means when one has nothing to add to a debate or discussion, they attempt to put the other person down.

I don't think a Linden was paranoid when it was called very early on in the discussions on the forums about these bots to enable 2fa if one hadn't already done so.  It's common sense.

[Rowan Amore]

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

 you're the one freaking out about a bot collecting public information.

Nobody is freaking out.
There are just people who have some different opinions than you.
You seem to like that gathering available information with bots is okay no matter what, others including me don't.
Discussing matters is something completely different than freaking out.

How public is information  outside of SL that is gathered somewhat public inside SL?
A lot of countries have very decent rules about data gathering via the Internet to protect people against the worst. And not for nothing IMHO.
I would like to see some of them apply in SL too.
Nothing freaking about that in my book.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Dorientje Woller]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Calm yourself down, I have an opinion on the paranoia of SLers and it's hardly out there.

And don't just go around calling people trolls for disagreeing with you, you're the one freaking out about a bot collecting public information.

I am a creator. Each day, one of those mentioned bots lands in my house whilst I am creating stuff. I don't want that one of my creations lands outside of the confinements of SL for grabs, even before I am able to upload or sell my creations. 'Coz god knows what they are scraping.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Dorientje Woller

[EliseAnne85]

25 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

'Coz god knows what they are scraping.

Come to think of it there have been some "copycat" threads lately where someone is copying another avatar with everything they wear, day after day after day as the avatar that was being copied changed every day and so did the copycat avatar.  That would be an awful lot of money to spend every day just to look like another avatar every day, and this included head, hair - everything.  And, then the second copycat thread was that the next door neighbor copied their whole sim.  I have never, ever seen copycat threads before in all my near 20 years on and off SL.  So, your assumption is not too wild, imo.  

Edited March 26, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

The thing is why would you do that and what would you get out of it?  

I am just curious what someone would hope to accomplish by doing the above?  

And, would whatever you are going to do with the information be for you, be for SL inworld only, or be for the main web (blog/website)?

That's what puzzles me, too.  Even if I didn't take respecting other people's privacy and confidentiality very seriously (which I do, in both First and Second Life), I can't think of any way I could monetize that kind of data, so it would be a bit of a waste of effort.

After all, most data mining is intended to help boost clicks and engagement, because what makes money from advertisers, which doesn't work in SL because SL is subscription bases (subscriptions and tier).  

[Ceka Cianci]

Can someone tell me what is 2fa?

I know I probably should know what it means, but I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

Can someone tell me what is 2fa?

I know I probably should know what it means, but I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

Two factor authentication

[EliseAnne85]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

Can someone tell me what is 2fa?

I know I probably should know what it means, but I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

I believe it means two factor authentication.  2fa, the acronym, I believe can be looked up.  

[EliseAnne85]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Two factor authentication

We posted at the same time.  Sorry, mine was redundant info.  

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Two factor authentication

Ahh ok, that's probably why I'm not familiar with it.. It's not really been around that long..

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Love Zhaoying]

Is "copycat" behavior with Dinkies even an issue? I didn't know you could tell them apart. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

you're the one freaking out about a bot collecting public information.

This is a pretty frequent justification employed to justify the scraping and aggregation of data: that what has been collected is already public -- anyone could access it. It often goes hand-in-hand with the "Code Is Law" approach to understanding the ethical implications of such data collection -- the notion that if a system does not specifically disallow, or actually enables a particular action through a manipulation of code, that action must necessarily be permissible.

The second view I find ethically suspect -- it's a bit like saying that murder is fine so long as you can get away with it because of loopholes in the law. The second is used either disingenuously by people who know better, or naively by those who haven't thought it through.

Let me give you a simple and crude example of how aggregating publicly-available data can become invasive.

• A surveillance camera captures me exiting Building X. Fine. That's "publicly available": anyone standing nearby can see me exiting that building.
• Another surveillance camera captures me crossing the street a block away. Also "public" information.
• A third surveillance camera captures me walking into a store 2 further blocks away. Public information, right?
• The same surveillance camera spots me exciting the same store 20 minutes later with a bag. Publicly.
• A fourth surveillance camera records entering a bank, three blocks away . . . etc.

Each individual "bit" of information is publicly available, and likely harmless, right? Aggregate them, however, and suddenly, guess what? I'm being stalked, and my movements monitored.

Let me give you another, slightly different example.

I am at the check-out in a store, and there is a person standing behind. I'm in the public eye, and what I am purchasing and, if you're watching closely enough, how much I spending, is visible to that person.

Now, suppose I see that person taking note on her phone of what I'm purchasing, or taking a pic of the screen with my itemized list and totals.  This too is "publicly available" information: anyone standing near enough can see it. How should I feel about them recording that information?

Suppose that person yells out to the store how much I am spending, or that I've just bought a pack of contraception? Suppose they post pics of that on Facebook? They are, after all, merely posting "publicly available information," right? So what's the concern?

it's not the individual instances of data that are invasive. It is how they are aggregated in mass form, how they are manipulated to reveal certain things (I am "going somewhere"; I am planning to have sex), and how they are published that is the issue.

[Arielle Popstar]

37 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

That's what puzzles me, too.  Even if I didn't take respecting other people's privacy and confidentiality very seriously (which I do, in both First and Second Life), I can't think of any way I could monetize that kind of data, so it would be a bit of a waste of effort.

After all, most data mining is intended to help boost clicks and engagement, because what makes money from advertisers, which doesn't work in SL because SL is subscription bases (subscriptions and tier).  

With all due respect Innula, therein perhaps is the problem. You are not thinking on how you could as obviously the thought of doing so is abhorrent, however there are those out there for whom it is the challenge they live for. How to hack either through hardware, software or social engineering a way to get the "goods" on another. Perhaps they cannot get all the information they need from that one avenue but combined with other sources, it makes their job that much easier to track down and target potentially vulnerable targets. In addition to the ones Elise has mentioned, some of us are familiar with certain griefers who in the past have managed to obtain the r/l identities of some from certain s/l communities and then spread that information throughout various inworld groups. These lists of scraped profile data makes it easier for even those outside of Secondlife to troll through them to find such soft targets.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Arielle Popstar

[Count Burks]

59 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

That's what puzzles me, too.  Even if I didn't take respecting other people's privacy and confidentiality very seriously (which I do, in both First and Second Life), I can't think of any way I could monetize that kind of data, so it would be a bit of a waste of effort.

How to make money using a bot net in Second Life a tutorial for Innula Zenovka

1. Rent a couple of dedicated servers 

2. Create a medium sized bot net with 100 avatars.

3. Start a website named avitracker.com offering avatar tracking service for 1500 Linden per week payable at kiosk in Second Life.

Service includes tracking data of one particular avatar on the Second Life grid. But if you sign up for the Premium + package you can track up to 5 avatars anywhere on the grid. Premium + is 2500 Linden per week.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Deployment of bot net.

Calculation

1 bot teleports every 10 seconds to another region and monitors the names of the avatars on the region.

1 bot * 6 teleports per minute * 60 minutes = 360 teleports per hour.

100 bots * 6 teleports per minute * 60 minutes = 36000 teleports per hour.

36000 teleports per hour / 27000 Second Life regions = 1 teleport per 0.75 hours or 1 teleport per 45 minutes.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Many residents remain at particular locations for an hour or longer so even with a small to medium sized bot net it is possible to track, spy and monitor on the movement of all Second Life avatars on the grid except within  regions which are not publicly accessible.

Many residents will want to know where their boyfriend or girlfriend or partner has been hanging out. Do not underestimate the curiosity of people so you will make money with such a service.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

To even hide more from Linden Lab you use servers collocated in separate data centers so it looks like you are running tiny bot farms for hobby purposes.

You also refresh sections of your bot farm every 5 to 10 days so that bots that got banned or restricted in access are no longer in circulation.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Do not underestimate what is possible with bot farms, how you can use them. This is a very basic example on how to deploy a bot farm to make money from it but it gives you insight why roaming bots should be blocked from the system.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Count Burks

[Zalificent Corvinus]

59 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Can someone tell me what is 2fa?

I know I probably should know what it means, but I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

"Too Effing Annoying"

See also MFA - "Multi Effing Annoying"

"Please enter the 1FA Impossible to remember Stupor-Strength password that you wrote oin a post-it note stuck to the edge of the monitor.

Please enter the 4th, 7th, and 14th characters from the 2FA impossible to remember 'memorable data', that you also wrote on that post-it note.

Please complete the 3FA captcha to prove you are not a bot thing.

Please enter the 4FA 6 digit security code sent to your phone.

Your 5FA Trusted device, has had a web browser update, and is no longer a 5FA trusted device, would you like to 5FA Trust this device... Again...

You will receive a 6FA automated phone call, to confirm you want to trust your PC... Again...

Congratulations, you can now use your online banking!

Error, you took more than 60 seconds to walk from your PC, to the table in the hall with the bill you want to pay, and back, 7FA Auto Timeout has automatically logged you out, please start the MFA process all over again from scratch!

Have a nice MFA day!"

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

25 minutes ago, Count Burks said:

How to make money using a bot net in Second Life a tutorial for Innula Zenovka

1. Rent a couple of dedicated servers 

2. Create a medium sized bot net with 100 avatars.

3. Start a website named avitracker.com offering avatar tracking service for 1500 Linden per week payable at kiosk in Second Life.

Service includes tracking data of one particular avatar on the Second Life grid. But if you sign up for the Premium + package you can track up to 5 avatars anywhere on the grid. Premium + is 2500 Linden per week.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Deployment of bot net.

Calculation

1 bot teleports every 10 seconds to another region and monitors the names of the avatars on the region.

1 bot * 6 teleports per minute * 60 minutes = 360 teleports per hour.

100 bots * 6 teleports per minute * 60 minutes = 36000 teleports per hour.

36000 teleports per hour / 27000 Second Life regions = 1 teleport per 0.75 hours or 1 teleport per 45 minutes.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Many residents remain at particular locations for an hour or longer so even with a small to medium sized bot net it is possible to track, spy and monitor on the movement of all Second Life avatars on the grid except within  regions which are not publicly accessible.

Many residents will want to know where their boyfriend or girlfriend or partner has been hanging out. Do not underestimate the curiosity of people so you will make money with such a service.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

To even hide more from Linden Lab you use servers collocated in separate data centers so it looks like you are running tiny bot farms for hobby purposes.

You also refresh sections of your bot farm every 5 to 10 days so that bots that got banned or restricted in access are no longer in circulation.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Do not underestimate what is possible with bot farms, how you can use them. This is a very basic example on how to deploy a bot farm to make money from it but it gives you insight why roaming bots should be blocked from the system.

 

 

 

 

If that's such a simple and fool proof way to make money using "bot farms" why are there not a few dozen such services already, making money hand over fist?

Probably because the number of paranoid tinfoil hat wearers willing to pay $10 USD a week to spy on the location of some peoples avatars, is not great enough to cover the cost of renting your bot farm servers.

 

As a business plan, this ranks right along side "Developing a mind control implant for animals, so we can use sea turtles as living surfboards for tourists"

[Count Burks]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If that's such a simple and fool proof way to make money using "bot farms" why are there not a few dozen such services already, making money hand over fist?

Probably because the number of paranoid tinfoil hat wearers willing to pay $10 USD a week to spy on the location of some peoples avatars, is not great enough to cover the cost of renting your bot farm servers.

 

As a business plan, this ranks right along side "Developing a mind control implant for animals, so we can use sea turtles as living surfboards for tourists"

Yes and that is why Redzone was making hand over fist before Linden Lab closed it down. Purely on suspicion and curiosity of residents to know which alts did belong to who. Redzone was a top selling product before it was closed down.

[EliseAnne85]

55 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is "copycat" behavior with Dinkies even an issue? I didn't know you could tell them apart. 

Dinkies are partial modify and about 40% or so (? I'm not sure of the exact amount) can be a different shape, plus there are BOM skins now for Dinkies along with fantasy skins that have been on the market for awhile. 

Also, Dinkies have different hairs, eyes, blush, eyelashes, eyeliner, clothing, shoes, jewelry & other accessories that can make them look unique.  Many Dinkies may look similar but many are customizing more now with BOM stuff, although there were eyeliners, eyelashes, eyes, claws and more before BOM.   So, Dinkies can vary quite a lot.  Some Dinkies may be a low budget alt account and many may not customize much because a lot of Dinkies build and go to building classes, and since Dinkies are low lag, this keeps down the lag at the building classes, so many Dinkies are *not* into the customization aspect of their alt.  Plus, many like them just the way they are.  Although most Dinkies I've seen over the years tend towards being unique and do customize.  Sorry, for the long response.

[Sid Nagy]

11 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If that's such a simple and fool proof way to make money using "bot farms" why are there not a few dozen such services already, making money hand over fist?

There are people who do the spying where ever  they can, not to gain any money but just because they like to do so. Being annoying to others is a by product of their hobby. Retrieving difficult to get data makes them kings and queens of their groups. Just like people who crack software protection as their hobby and think about themselves as pirates.
He or she who cracks the most difficult software locks is the king or queen on their hill.

For them it is about the puzzle to crack the system and show of their trophies.
They don't care if they spread information that most don't want to see spread.
If they can, they will, they enjoy it.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Count Burks said:

Yes and that is why Redzone was making hand over fist before Linden Lab closed it down. Purely on suspicion and curiosity of residents to know which alts did belong to who. Redzone was a top selling product before it was closed down.

Redzone was giving out more than "current location of Avatar X. it was handing out IP addresses, and lists of avatars using them, to "out"  the "filthy alts" that so many oldbies seemed to hate so much, that isn't the same as finding suckers willing to pay $10 a WEEK to know where an avatar is inworld.

 

Again, since this service you propose, doesn't violate the TOS,, and is a "guaranteed money maker" where are all the outfits running such a service?

[Count Burks]

12 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Redzone was giving out more than "current location of Avatar X. it was handing out IP addresses, and lists of avatars using them, to "out"  the "filthy alts" that so many oldbies seemed to hate so much, that isn't the same as finding suckers willing to pay $10 a WEEK to know where an avatar is inworld.

 

Again, since this service you propose, doesn't violate the TOS,, and is a "guaranteed money maker" where are all the outfits running such a service?

While doing research on this topic several weeks ago I did find a bot service provider offering bots you can control to send in world and spy on chat conversations through IM messages. You can rent a bot send it to specific location, let it listen to chat conversations which the bot will then transfer to you through IM messages. And this is still a somewhat harmless service. Who knows what all these hundreds of roaming bots are exactly recording and what services are being offered through non public channels?

Thoys Bot

What are they able to do?
You can let them follow you for instance. You can talk through them. Listen through them (through instant messages). They are able to sit and resit when they get kicked off something. And a lot more.

How do I command them?
You command them through instant messages and local chat. For the command note look under here. Only the master can command the bot and the master is set in the bot tool.

So as you can see there are indeed bot services around that make money from offering spying tools.

The thing with roaming bots is that nobody, not even Linden Lab knows what they are being used for.