Mobile and the Future of Second Life

[diamond Marchant]

The first part of this Lab Gab is a promo video for Linden Lab's effort, begun in October 2022, to develop an iOs and Android Unity-based viewer. Mojo says there is much more work to do but it appears to be an excellent start.

Usually, we wander around in the weeds but the question for this particular topic is "the big picture". Pretend that you own Linden Lab and want to make money... what would you like to see happen?

The "sandbox-game-that-runs-on-gaming-computers" may (or may not) have positive cash flow and  may (or may not) have stalled resident growth. Is there a game changer?

Consider this speculation (keyword is speculation). Is Linden Lab developing a capability that gives either the Lab or a new owner the option of novel business opportunities. By novel, I mean not the current SL situation., which is a free or subscription-based sandbox game with practically zero connection to real world commerce and a suppression of advertising.

Imagine SL now split into the tethered-world and the mobile-world. The tethered-world is for creators. The mobile-world is for real world consumers, anyone with a mobile device (that meets h/w requirements). The barrier to entry for mobile world is very small with an obvious UI. You download the app, sign up, and off you go with your NUX avatar. You don't need a linden home or inventory or buildy things like that. All you get is attachments for your NUX. And your primary activity is BUYING stuff that gets delivered to you in the real world (powered by Tilia).

Is Linden Lab back in the metaverse sweepstakes?

[Arielle Popstar]

I don't know about the metaverse sweepstakes but at the very least it will be a giant leap for the perceived modernizing of S/L. I am actually quite impressed with the view they did with this and sure should muzzle all the naysayers about the supposed limitations of Mobile and how it couldn't be done.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

Imagine SL now split into the tethered-world and the mobile-world. The tethered-world is for creators. The mobile-world is for real world consumers, anyone with a mobile device (that meets h/w requirements). The barrier to entry for mobile world is very small with an obvious UI. You download the app, sign up, and off you go with your NUX avatar. You don't need a linden home or inventory or buildy things like that.

Okay, all this looks good...

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

And your primary activity is BUYING stuff that gets delivered to you in the real world (powered by Tilia).

ANNNDDDDD you lost me. What is the point of using a virtual environment to buy 97% of real-world items?

However, I do see benefit to having the ability for people to visit Second Life without having to take the time and effort to learn how to deal with all the esoteric things that are possible in Second Life.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

ANNNDDDDD you lost me. What is the point of using a virtual environment to buy 97% of real-world items?

Because some of us prefer to see a 3d model of a product rather than a 2d one. I'm sure I am not the only one who still prefers rl shopping for that point alone but it is getting increasingly difficult to do so with so many stores having closed during the pandemic. Being able to see a virtualized item and fit it on a r/l avatar of myself, would be a reasonable substitute for shopping of those items I can no longer find in stores.

[Sid Nagy]

Snarky remark first:
They should repair the possibility to create an account first though.
The sign up module is borking big time at the moment as I understand it.

If the mobile version has the graphics that the Lab showed in the latest Lab Gab, that could mean a major break trough that puts LL and SL right back at the table with the big boys and their Metaverse buz.  Who knows, SL might experience a new 2007 era with booming business and sign ups and the press tumbling all over the place.
I really like what I saw, but I also know that promising the moon and big diamond rings is easy, but delivering them is something else.
Let's wait and see.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Ceka Cianci]

I'll probably never use it for my phone.. I know others are going to be all into it, but I try to keep my phone to just being a phone..

I'm sure there is gonna be a lot of changes from just the social side of things as well as commercial..

I'm not sure how I'll feel about that until then..Have to wait and see I guess.. If the world starts filling up with online shopping and adds and  getting all socialnetworky. That'll be my exit sign.

It'll all come out in the wash.. hehehe

 

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

I'll probably never use it for my phone.. I know others are going to be all into it, but I try to keep my phone to just being a phone..

I'm sure there is gonna be a lot of changes from just the social side of things as well as commercial..

I'm not sure how I'll feel about that until then..Have to wait and see I guess.. If the world starts filling up with online shopping and adds and  getting all socialnetworky. That'll be my exit sign.

It'll all come out in the wash.. hehehe

 

Mobile is one of those things were people will be saying  afterwards how they don't know how they did it before it was available.

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Mobile is one of those things were people will be saying  afterwards how they don't know how they did it before it was available.

That'll be great for those  that like being on their phone.. But I enjoy my screen space and a lot of what I can do with the viewer that they won't be able to do I'm sure..

I'm fighting for screen space as it is.. It's gonna be a younger persons kind of thing, than older needing reading glasses want to dive into the details deep in the viewer kind of thing.. hehehe

[Istelathis]

A few concerns of mine.

1. Battery consumption, if I am out and about will I be able to play around in SL for long or am I going to drain my battery in less than an hour.

2. Two different viewers, each of which will have to be independently updated to support new features as SL adds them. 

3. Google and Apple possibly having some control over SL as well as privacy due to... well google.  I don't have very much faith left in Google.

4. A possible demographic shift that will drastically change what SL currently is, into something completely different.

With that said, I am very impressed with what I saw.  This is likely to draw in a lot of new residents and extend the life of SL.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

17 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That'll be great for those  that like being on their phone.. But I enjoy my screen space and a lot of what I can do with the viewer that they won't be able to do I'm sure..

I'm fighting for screen space as it is.. It's gonna be a younger persons kind of thing, than older needing reading glasses want to dive into the details deep in the viewer kind of thing.. hehehe

I'm like you. My phone barely ever stays activated, let alone charged and filled with mobile apps. I always just leave it sitting until I remember I have it and then I need a new phone number all over again. 😂Pay as you go is a blessing and a curse, I suppose.

Tiny screens are the absolute worst for me, though. Not due to eyesight, but screen real estate. It makes everything feel so cluttered. But then, I'm on a desktop 24/7.

That said, though, for creators, store owners, CSRs, and anyone who needs to manage land, customers, merchandise, etc., this will be great. They can access a decent viewer on the go.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

25 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That'll be great for those  that like being on their phone.. But I enjoy my screen space and a lot of what I can do with the viewer that they won't be able to do I'm sure..

I'm fighting for screen space as it is.. It's gonna be a younger persons kind of thing, than older needing reading glasses want to dive into the details deep in the viewer kind of thing.. hehehe

Same here.  My man used to play this one game eons ago that was on the desktop. A few years ago they came out with a mobile version then finally they went mobile only. It was some kind of train game.  Since the PC/Mac version went away, he no longer plays it.

[Caeruleiae]

I will reserve pats on the back for when interactivity is married in. It looks nice absolutely but that's not even 1/1,000,000 of the work that needs to be done. They said they're starting with the hard things first, but something being aesthetically pleasing is not as hard as some think. Graphics-even mobile have come a very long way. It's hard for ll and hard for sl, because there is so much more involved-but I'm glad they at least figured out that small part. The hard part begins when interactivity comes into play and given what sl entails and how it works, I'm don't think that's possible anytime soon. It may be if ll starts changing how they do things or someone quickly develops advancements in mobile tech we don't have yet. 

Sl is going to be very hard to integrate into an actual mobile client where one can stay connected-not just partially connected but fully from anywhere on their mobile devices. There's a massive amount of work that goes into making even virtual spaces that companies can use on a mobile basis that offer their employees a place to work collaborate and even meet with clients even if you use VR. All those advancements to get there took years and years, integrating a mobile aspect is even more brutal. It's not an easy undertaking without all the extras that come with sl-a  almost totally user generated world that constantly changes. I don't think anyone is going to see a truly interactive sl on mobile client that brings a big enough wow factor that we see a shift in mobile use in the foreseeable future. What we will probably see is a mobile client that looks pretty but has very limited interactivity and certainly little to no interactivity with other avatars because that multiplies the difficulty by damn near infinity. The load on devices alone will be tragic-to say the least. 

Sl isn't a mobile friendly kind of place it's just not. Mobile technology is lightyears from where it was a decade ago, but it hasn't reached the point it needs to be for sl to work as people have grown to expect. So I expect a really nice mobile client where people can maybe do some stuff but definitely not most things we do in sl. I also expect that anyone who comes to sl by way of using that mobile client will decide it's just not what it was touted as and either leave or decide to use a computer based viewer instead and realize it's so much more than their mobile device told them. Mobile viewer won't really alter the trajectory of sl much-if at all without a huge-almost unsurmountable with the current ll amount of work. A good mobile client for sl that really makes a dent will have perfect interactivity, with few to no limitations-not just a light version of what we can do already on a laptop or computer with and in sl. 

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

I will reserve pats on the back for when interactivity is married in. It looks nice absolutely but that's not even 1/1,000,000 of the work that needs to be done. They said they're starting with the hard things first, but something being aesthetically pleasing is not as hard as some think. Graphics-even mobile have come a very long way. It's hard for ll and hard for sl, because there is so much more involved-but I'm glad they at least figured out that small part. The hard part begins when interactivity comes into play and given what sl entails and how it works, I'm don't think that's possible anytime soon. It may be if ll starts changing how they do things or someone quickly develops advancements in mobile tech we don't have yet. 

Sl is going to be very hard to integrate into an actual mobile client where one can stay connected-not just partially connected but fully from anywhere on their mobile devices. There's a massive amount of work that goes into making even virtual spaces that companies can use on a mobile basis that offer their employees a place to work collaborate and even meet with clients even if you use VR. All those advancements to get there took years and years, integrating a mobile aspect is even more brutal. It's not an easy undertaking without all the extras that come with sl-a  almost totally user generated world that constantly changes. I don't think anyone is going to see a truly interactive sl on mobile client that brings a big enough wow factor that we see a shift in mobile use in the foreseeable future. What we will probably see is a mobile client that looks pretty but has very limited interactivity and certainly little to no interactivity with other avatars because that multiplies the difficulty by damn near infinity. The load on devices alone will be tragic-to say the least. 

Sl isn't a mobile friendly kind of place it's just not. Mobile technology is lightyears from where it was a decade ago, but it hasn't reached the point it needs to be for sl to work as people have grown to expect. So I expect a really nice mobile client where people can maybe do some stuff but definitely not most things we do in sl. I also expect that anyone who comes to sl by way of using that mobile client will decide it's just not what it was touted as and either leave or decide to use a computer based viewer instead and realize it's so much more than their mobile device told them. Mobile viewer won't really alter the trajectory of sl much-if at all without a huge-almost unsurmountable with the current ll amount of work. A good mobile client for sl that really makes a dent will have perfect interactivity, with few to no limitations-not just a light version of what we can do already on a laptop or computer with and in sl. 

Guessing you never tried Lumiya did you. It already was capable of doing most of what 90% of residents actually do inworld and in some ways was more intuitive then the desktop viewers. For the remainder, one only has to look at the mobile viewers of other virtual worlds like IMVU to see what is already possible. Remember too that when we talk about a "mobile" viewer, it is not just on a phone but also allows playing on a 10 inch + tablet. 

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I'm like you. My phone barely ever stays activated, let alone charged and filled with mobile apps. I always just leave it sitting until I remember I have it and then I need a new phone number all over again. 😂Pay as you go is a blessing and a curse, I suppose.

Tiny screens are the absolute worst for me, though. Not due to eyesight, but screen real estate. It makes everything feel so cluttered. But then, I'm on a desktop 24/7.

That said, though, for creators, store owners, CSRs, and anyone who needs to manage land, customers, merchandise, etc., this will be great. They can access a decent viewer on the go.

The only reason I'll probably ever use it for is, If for some reason my computer dies and I am waiting on a new one, or if I need to get on for any reason and can't get to my computer.. It will be nice for that..

But to get in here and get my escape on, I need to cut out a lot of the things around me and have this world in my face while I'm laying back in my chair relaxing..

For a backup it will be nice, but to be my way in and do my thing always, no.. hehehe

I'll be squinting and scrunching my eyes and tiring my face out trying to see.. then my vision is gonna get blurry and then it's game over for that day.hehehe

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

A few concerns of mine.

1. Battery consumption, if I am out and about will I be able to play around in SL for long or am I going to drain my battery in less than an hour.

I use Lumiya regularly when I am on the road and manage 3-4 hours without much trouble. If I needed more, I have the option of spare battery packs which are cheap and widely available or the 12 volt adaptor for the car.

Quote

2. Two different viewers, each of which will have to be independently updated to support new features as SL adds them. 

How many viewers are being supported now by either S/L or third party devs? Once they have the groundwork, new features will likely be relatively easy to include.

Quote

3. Google and Apple possibly having some control over SL as well as privacy due to... well google.  I don't have very much faith left in Google.

Personally I think the greater concern would be Apple. Google is more concerned about hardware compatibility whereas Apple would have more issues with S/L cultural issues.

Quote

4. A possible demographic shift that will drastically change what SL currently is, into something completely different.

And maybe that is what is needed to pull in and retain new users? Not sure what potential shift might be involved but ok.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Arielle Popstar

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 

I'll be squinting and scrunching my eyes and tiring my face out trying to see.. then my vision is gonna get blurry and then it's game over for that day.hehehe

A nice 10 inch tablet might be better then, giving you portability and yet a larger view. Not sure why people are hung up on this idea that Mobile is only a 6 inch phone.

 

[Caeruleiae]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Guessing you never tried Lumiya did you. It already was capable of doing most of what 90% of residents actually do inworld and in some ways was more intuitive then the desktop viewers. For the remainder, one only has to look at the mobile viewers of other virtual worlds like IMVU to see what is already possible. Remember too that when we talk about a "mobile" viewer, it is not just on a phone but also allows playing on a 10 inch + tablet.

Not personally, but from those I have spoken to about it, no it couldn't and not all devices could even handle running it, either. From what I was told it had plenty of issues that made it not suitable beyond the most basic of uses and connectivity but with limited interactivity. Connectivity and full interactivity are not the same thing, not even close. 

I know what's possible, and I also know it doesn't just mean on a phone, but any type of mobile device. I work in tech, I work closely with people that develop tech. Some of the people in our company develop better VR mobile and stand alone tech that's used all over the globe right now in households and businesses. There is a lot more possible than people think-with constant new developments and plenty of development still to be made. But something like sl is a horse of a different color and not at all even remotely similar to something like imvu. Sl is way more involved constantly changing and more than 95% user generated. That's where most of the problems sit-tacking in proper interactivity with all that can throw a wrench into even the best laid plans. 

[Alwin Alcott]

19 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Guessing you never  ............

Yesterday you self declared Lab Gab to be BS .. and now you'r lecturing others and hyping like a teen in front of your favorite popstar. ... 

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

A nice 10 inch tablet might be better then, giving you portability and yet a larger view. Not sure why people are hung up on this idea that Mobile is only a 6 inch phone.

 

If I'm out and about that's what I'll have is my phone.. For me the only reason i would use that option was for my phone.. I'm not referring to anyone else but myself and my use of it.. I don't really have an opinion of what anyone else does or thinks of it..

For someone that doesn't have a computer  it will be a good thing and I hope it does give more access to those that haven't been able to use SL for whatever reasons..

But for myself, it's only if I had to get on and couldn't get on with my computer..  I use a big monitor because it's easier on my eyes.. a 10 inch screen or a 6 inch screen, I'll still be squinting and looking harder than I have to which after a little bit,makes my eyes blurry for the rest of the day.. So it's much better for me on my desktop.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Caeruleiae said:

Not personally, but from those I have spoken to about it, no it couldn't and not all devices could even handle running it, either. From what I was told it had plenty of issues that made it not suitable beyond the most basic of uses and connectivity but with limited interactivity. Connectivity and full interactivity are not the same thing, not even close. 

I know what's possible, and I also know it doesn't just mean on a phone, but any type of mobile device. I work in tech, I work closely with people that develop tech. Some of the people in our company develop better VR mobile and stand alone tech that's used all over the globe right now in households and businesses. There is a lot more possible than people think-with constant new developments and plenty of development still to be made. But something like sl is a horse of a different color and not at all even remotely similar to something like imvu. Sl is way more involved constantly changing and more than 95% user generated. That's where most of the problems sit-tacking in proper interactivity with all that can throw a wrench into even the best laid plans. 

The greatest challenge was the rendering of the view and from what we seen in that video, I think they have actually done a great job of doing just that. It is great that you see what is being developed but at the same time I will go with my own experience in using that mobile viewer in S/L for the past 8 or 9 years to point out it was capable of a lot more than you are giving it credit for. Yes it isn't a full fledged desktop viewer that allows prim mangling but then at the same time, how many residents nowadays actually do so even when they are on a viewer that can? On the Lumiya viewer group there were quite a few who only had access to it and had figured out ways around to do things inworld that were not actually included in it to begin with, but like the learning curve for the full viewers, some ingenuity allowed them to get what they needed out of it. Who knows, the possibility exists that they may actually find it more expedient to include a graphical based inventory system within it, making it even easier to use than the current viewers. It is something Imvu has managed with theirs.

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Yesterday you self declared Lab Gab to be BS .. and now you'r lecturing others and hyping like a teen in front of your favorite popstar. ... 

And the reason I called BS to the former lab gabs was that they kept touting and promising a Mobile viewer while now you know from the last one, they didn't actually start till last October, so my calling BS was right.

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If I'm out and about that's what I'll have is my phone.. For me the only reason i would use that option was for my phone.. I'm not referring to anyone else but myself and my use of it.. I don't really have an opinion of what anyone else does or thinks of it..

For someone that doesn't have a computer  it will be a good thing and I hope it does give more access to those that haven't been able to use SL for whatever reasons..

But for myself, it's only if I had to get on and couldn't get on with my computer..  I use a big monitor because it's easier on my eyes.. a 10 inch screen or a 6 inch screen, I'll still be squinting and looking harder than I have to which after a little bit,makes my eyes blurry for the rest of the day.. So it's much better for me on my desktop.

 

I'm with you.  I don't lug my tablet around when I'm out.  If I'm home, I'm on the laptop.  I'm also on a pay as you go phone so no way am I eating up data to log into SL.  But I'm also an outlier in regards to cell phones.  Mine is a necessary evil and not a necessity.

[Ceka Cianci]

40 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm with you.  I don't lug my tablet around when I'm out.  If I'm home, I'm on the laptop.  I'm also on a pay as you go phone so no way am I eating up data to log into SL.  But I'm also an outlier in regards to cell phones.  Mine is a necessary evil and not a necessity.

Ya, my phone is just a phone.. I would still be using our land line if my family didn't get all over me constantly about getting one.. I finally gave in..

Then they started with all the texting and things and I just never answer other than to say, This is my phone, if you can't call me it must not be important enough to make a phone call.. hehehe

I never liked the idea of someone being able to get a hold of me at their leisure.. Especially text chat.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I use Lumiya regularly when I am on the road and manage 3-4 hours without much trouble. If I needed more, I have the option of spare battery packs which are cheap and widely available or the 12 volt adaptor for the car.

Something tells me, you will still be using Lumiya no matter how great the official Second Life mobile viewer is.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How many viewers are being supported now by either S/L or third party devs? Once they have the groundwork, new features will likely be relatively easy to include.

All TPVs are essentially based upon LLs one viewer,  what LL has accomplished now is really impressive but it is using an entirely new engine to run SL from.  As far as I am aware these are two drastically different engines, which will probably require quite a lot more effort to maintain to keep compatible with one another.

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I use Lumiya regularly when I am on the road and manage 3-4 hours without much trouble. If I needed more, I have the option of spare battery packs which are cheap and widely available or the 12 volt adaptor for the car.

That would be impressive, and I hope it is the same with the newest viewer.  It would be nice to be able to play SL for a few hours at a time while away from home, especially for times when I just want to be outside of the house.

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And maybe that is what is needed to pull in and retain new users? Not sure what potential shift might be involved but ok.

It may be, it might destroy it for some of us - but there is always opensim if it becomes a drastically different platform.  Outside of google and apple getting a hold over how SL operates this is the one I worry about most.