A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[Love Zhaoying]

I am starting this thread as a discussion spot for "Ideas" following the "Brainstorming" philosophy - "There's no such thing as a bad idea."

Coffee Pancake's recent thread about a "Ratings Proposal" was very popular, but we went pretty far off-topic with different suggestions.

Let's focus on ideas about: "Increasing Sociability", "Usability", and "Retention" in Second Life.  Sure, if you want to go off that topic with ideas, go for it!

Please keep it civil, and POSITIVE.

- Just because someone gives an idea, does not mean they want or need feedback on it.

- If you don't like an idea, you can just..have a nice day.

- Don't bully.

- If you think an idea is dumb, please keep it to yourself. 

- If you can't resist being "negative", at least try and suggest something "better". CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is indeed a "thing".

- No "Go file a JIRA", "Go attend a Meeting", etc. YOU can always go file a JIRA, or attend a meeting!

Just a place to share ideas.

For my part, I will try my best not to re-submit ideas presented in the recent thread.

A random idea to get you started..

For "increasing sociability" beginning with the new user experience: What if places were categorized by "type of social activity", with "new user" education providing actual examples of the Second Life social activities, by placing new users in the actual social situation to experience it?  This idea would replace the new user experience of being dumped at a "social island" and depending on a) the kindness of strangers to give them landmarks, and b) the questionably search capabilities of Second Life.  Places with the different "social activity categories" could choose to be part of the "new user experience". When new users choose a "social activity category", they would randomly be sent to one of the locations in that category.  LL could even "code" it to only send users to places that had user "activity".  

Don't like my idea? Give us your idea!

Go Forth and..think of stuff!

Thanks,

Love

[Stephanie Misfit]

Well it has been mentioned on these forums before, and some people don't like it, but I think the addition of achievements could be great for sociability and retention. Adding gamification elements to SL would give users a purpose when they are struggling to find things to do, and maybe it could be set up in a way that encourages them to explore and try new things.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Yes, gameification!

[Caeruleiae]

I like the achievements thing, and it should be opt in, no financial gain from it, just sort of a side mission thing people can do. There could be some list of things people can do, and it could or could not be in a spot on people's profile, little icons or just in text form, whatever. Again people should be able to opt in, or turn this spot on their profile on or off as they want. There could also be achievements that aren't on a list somewhere, just happy little easter egg surprises, that would be cool and add a level of mystery to it. This is something open to all people, no one gets excluded unless they want to, costs no one anything but maybe time and gives boost to the -what is there to do here questions.

Ll should do something with the abandoned land already. There's so much of it, just sitting there, empty and ugly a lot of it. They could put more nice places to visit in there. They could use that land for events of all sorts, more often than they do. This could work if they put something in more regularly too. If people want little parties and get togethers, having some spots where they happen on a specific schedule might help with that, and be good use for all the empty land. Plus then no one has to pay tier or rent for a place that people can gather. This one would require more interaction from ll too. I don't think they're so busy they can't find the time to be more interactive themselves. 

Fix the destination guide. Inworld in fs there's a thing in the world menu where you can bring it up and it has some of the places listed and some show current number of people, but I don't think most people use that, I think they use the webpage one. The webpage one is stupid, a lot of the places on it are gone, none of them on that page really tell you if they are busy places or not, there's not much rhyme or reason to it either. That whole destination guide webpage, and all its content needs scrubbed completely and started over. My travels tell me over half the places I visited from links on the different categories are not there, that's terrible. Others you land in weird places, including buildings and rocks. It's just a awful mess. 

But my best idea, ll needs to start listening. They don't, I don't care what anyone says, ll doesn't actually listen. They don't put things in place they say they will. They don't fix broken things. They don't communicate. They don't participate. They don't do anything you expect devs to do for something like this. Even though they're not all devs, they might as well be, because that's how newer generation people in sl will see them. They need to act like it. Yes the moles do great work building things inworld. Yes sometimes ll gets things right. But mostly, they don't, and it shows lack of concern and care for their audience and product. That hurts retention more than anything. Even just small suggestions that people make which wouldn't be hard to put in, ll ignores them. It's just stupid, and no reason for it. I think this alone helps a lot and it starts from top down, not bottom up. 

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Well it has been mentioned on these forums before, and some people don't like it, but I think the addition of achievements could be great for sociability and retention. Adding gamification elements to SL would give users a purpose when they are struggling to find things to do, and maybe it could be set up in a way that encourages them to explore and try new things.

 

I pretty much agree with Stephanie.

I'd add notecards when one begins with 'click on me' hover texts which the notecards explains how to do certain things when one lands as a newbie.  

[Istelathis]

I agree with achievements. 

With the large parcels of empty land, LL could decorate using existing creator's content or allow teams of volunteers to decorate using their own inventory items.  If we wanted to expand upon that, there could be a monthly competition which rates each team based upon whatever criteria LL wanted and the denizens of SL could participate in rating them.  

[belindacarson]

6 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I pretty much agree with Stephanie.

I'd add notecards when one begins with 'click on me' hover texts which the notecards explains how to do certain things when one lands as a newbie.  

Visit orientation Island public ........that type of notecard has been there since the beginning

[Alwin Alcott]

7 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I pretty much agree with Stephanie.

I'd add notecards when one begins with 'click on me' hover texts which the notecards explains how to do certain things when one lands as a newbie.  

if somewhere, anybody had one single clue how to better retention or"what to do" on SL ... it would have popped up somewhere in the past 10/15 years .. butttttt it did not
 and everything that comes up in these threads has been said and noted hundreds of times... and it does not work.
Just a note.. also the things that come up at LL don't work!...we'r not alone in this.

People seem to need to be a certain type of visitor to stay here, no gamer, no gamification or notecard with exploring ideas wil help, it's been always around here, because it's the state of mind of newcommers what causes it. Nobody here can do someting about it, because we don't know what it is.
Perhaps it's more simple than we look for... could it be because many of us, the stayers..  dó have a first life ? And no, not saying that first one is perfect..
I'm, as many, not the youngest one around, but - bias alert!- when talking to newbies, and in special younger ones... 20's and a bit up .. many don't even know what to do in their first, or know what life is .. did they learn to live? How to make a second, when there's not even a first live?
All i know.. "our" generation has a bigger difference with the new one than any generation before us.

I don't say there is no need for adaption and change to see if things will work. But please, don't overdo it, don't scare away the generation that made SL what it is, and is a majority of the current population. ( who clearly did find their way in the SL version of their live)

Edited February 10, 2023 by Juan Marques

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Juan Marques said:

if somewhere, anybody had one single clue how to better retention or"what to do" on SL ... it would have popped up somewhere in the past 10/15 years .. butttttt it did not
 and everything that comes up in these threads has been said and noted hundreds of times... and it does not work.
Just a note.. also the things that come up at LL don't work!...we'r not alone in this.

People seem to need to be a certain type of visitor to stay here, no gamer, no gamification or notecard with exploring ideas wil help, it's been always around here, because it's the state of mind of newcommers what causes it. Nobody here can do someting about it, because we don't know what it is.
Perhaps it's more simple than we look for... could it be because many of us, the stayers..  dó have a first life ? And no, not saying that first one is perfect..
I'm, as many, not the youngest one around, but - bias alert!- when talking to newbies, and in special younger ones... 20's and a bit up .. many don't even know what to do in their first, or know what life is .. did they learn to live? How to make a second, when there's not even a first live?
All i know.. "our" generation has a bigger difference with the new one than any generation before us.

I don't say there is no need for adaption and change to see if things will work. But please, don't overdo it, don't scare away the generation that made SL what it is, and is a majority of the current population. ( who clearly did find their way in the SL version of their live)

 Do you have any actual suggestions? Please see my original post in this thread. 

[Qie Niangao]

It's easy to tell who has never been hired into a successful RL engineering organization: they have trouble entertaining "bad" brainstorming ideas for their value in generating new ideas that might even solve a problem—even if it's not the problem originally posed. That's where patents come from. Anyway…

One suggestion:

Besides going to explicitly "social" settings, some of us are just as comfortable (or more) with spontaneous chat wherever we are, even at our "home" location in SL, but also shopping, and especially exploring. But when exploring the grid, are you comfortable initiating chat with people in their homes as you go by? How could we know they'd welcome it?

I used to be comfortable assuming anybody whose status wasn't "Away" or "Do not disturb" would welcome a chat, but that seems wrong now, and the uninvited chat might be intrusive. So, what if we had an additional avatar status signifying availability to chat? Maybe it's weird to need such an invitation, but it might help, especially if those avatars are color-coded on the mini-map.

If nothing else, it should solve one major problem with bots: they'd have no reason to set such an "available" flag, so they can continue their haunting presence without confusing newbies into thinking they represent SL zombies.

(Note, however, that traffic bots would fake the flag if it were required to count as "traffic", so let's not make that mistake. Count avatars regardless of activity status, and quit pretending "traffic" means anything at all unless and until the Lab decides to do something about enforcing the scripted-agent designation. Not to stir up that debate in this thread, but I would submit that "traffic" being meaningless is one factor undermining SL's social effectiveness.)

Another suggestion:

We need the ability from a script to turn on and off the "parcel privacy" setting* "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel." Landowners need a way to flip a switch that turns privacy features on and off, including that setting as well as windows, access restrictions, etc., all at once. That way, they can choose to leave things as wide-open as they like when they're not actively seeking privacy. That would make it a lot easier to be a friendly neighbor.

And a note :

I'm absolutely fine with people identifying how any idea needs to be improved, or suggesting alternative ideas. That's welcome feedback. What's not helpful is dismissing the possibility of anyone ever suggesting anything to help a problem.

_______________
*In fact, everything in every tab of every viewer window should have a properly permissioned and rate-throttled script interface, but that's development that should have happened automatically as features were introduced. Don't get me started with what that failure says about Lab's technical management.

[Asadora Summers]

Personally, I think adding any 'goal setting achievement' is a bad idea or 'gamification' tactics would not be an ideal way to go trying to get more people interested in each other.
SL already has a reputation for being a 'game' over being a virtual world, which it is just that: A virtual world. And just like in the physical world, there are ups and downs in society, economy and infrastructure.
In SL there is a lack of community, like how the old days. When those of us who are older to remember were all figuring out SL together that is what made the community back them. But, as with everything in life, a different generation rezzed in and things are certainly not like how they used to be. That's just how life goes.

Today is my 17th Rez Day, I've seen things come and go in SL. When it comes to people, I've observed that people as a whole, will do what it will do regardless of what is being on offer or not.  People do like to have choices, but if they choose not to choose something they shouldn't be made to feel ostracized from that same society.
Regarding sociability itself that is made up by the individual. We are all in SL for a slew of different reasons. Some to escape from the physical world, to create, to network, to make money, etc,. I don't that  a corporation like Linden Lab should  have control over how residents interact or not with each other.
The users create the content which includes that sociability factor, so it's up to every one of us realistically in this virtual world.

I'd like to see certain areas of Mainland landscaping updated; however, I know that is on the bottom of LL's list of things to do. Though it doesn't stop me from enjoying Mainland.
I would love to be able to go to Help Island and share my positive experiences with new users, but I literally am not allowed too due to my rez age. Now, I can understand why that is the way it is, because it would turn out to be a danger... I mean safe hub type of thing.
I think it would be cool to have a 'Meet a Linden' day in a Townhall set up and expose more people to Lindens, which might help them to see that they are people too.

[Rick Nightingale]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Besides going to explicitly "social" settings, some of us are just as comfortable (or more) with spontaneous chat wherever we are, even at our "home" location in SL, but also shopping, and especially exploring.

More, in my case. Going to a 'social' event is traumatic for me (autism) and usually causes far more internal distress than I get benefit from socialising*. There are only a few I manage to go near (FGI). But I'm much more able to handle a bit of random chat and even initiate it. I'm the sort that will say hello (in local) if I'm sat at a cafe for instance, and someone else sits down near by, or say hello when entering an event, or to others arriving if I'm already there. Less so for the former of those these days... there does seem more of a 'not interested in talking" or "are you some weirdo, talking to me?" feeling, so some idea of whether the person is up for a chat or not would be useful. Sometimes it's pretty clear from a profile whether or not... but not often.

Same reasons I don't like having ban lines on my property - I don't mind some interaction and have no issues with people exploring the grid. Met some interesting people that way. Some of them even enjoyed the 'traps for the unwary'.

Quote

Another suggestion:

We need the ability from a script to turn on and off the "parcel privacy" setting* "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel." Landowners need a way to flip a switch that turns privacy features on and off, including that setting as well as windows, access restrictions, etc., all at once. That way, they can choose to leave things as wide-open as they like when they're not actively seeking privacy. That would make it a lot easier to be a friendly neighbor.

Yes! There are times I don't want disturbing and that would fit in perfectly with my own systems.

*Funny how the psychiatrist I once got to see couldn't understand that socialising online was hardly any different than in RL for me. He thought 'nerds' (his word!) did better online. But then, he clearly knew as much about autism as I do about brain surgery.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Rick Daylight
Correction - he said "nerds", not "geeks"

[Ceka Cianci]

Honestly, I am not sure why in these startup areas they don't have links to videos of tutorial like how to do this or  a huge library of common problems..Especially around the viewer and the basics of mesh..

They should be getting a big filled up note card with video links to a big list of frequently asked questions.. A freaking SL bible of sorts.. A huge part of retention problem is frustrations from things that we see as second nature now..

The way it is now is, join up,  here is a couple things you need to know. There you go,  figure out the rest yourselves.. Oh ya here is a bunch of adds to lean you down this road where you will more than likely be stuck for the rest of your SL if you don't end up quitting before the day is out.. hehehe

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[diamond Marchant]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

A huge part of retention problem is frustrations from things that we see as second nature now..

Would LAG be an example? At SL19B at a Meet the Lindens live session, I asked the Lindens to give us their best advice on what steps residents can take to minimize lag, given the current state of their technology. The answer was... "Great idea, we'll make a SL University video about that."

That was June 2022. So far no video.

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Would LAG be an example? At SL19B at a Meet the Lindens live session, I asked the Lindens to give us their best advice on what steps residents can take to minimize lag, given the current state of their technology. The answer was... "Great idea, we'll make a SL University video about that."

That was June 2022. So far no video.

They need a lot of videos.. They really should have a lot more than they do.. We don't need 15 brand mesh body videos.. Maybe just a basics on how the different mesh heads and bodies can work..

Now they have to keep up with every brand of body with videos?  They should be more wide spread and making the university more aimed at new residents.. those of us that have been here for awhile have our connections or have an idea how to get the information..

If they are serious about new user retention, they'll put the foot to the pedal and floor it.. If not then we'll be just spinning our wheels like we are trying come up with ideas that  will never see the light of day.

They need to make the university a university for real useful information.. Not mixed with brand advertisement..

I mean anyone that has ever had a mesh body and head can pretty much figure out what to do with the next brand or where to go to get help if they can't figure it out..

When the NUX gets here, pull those others out and put them in some other channel named something else.. Teach them how to use their starter avatar and  other SL helpful things..

 

 

 

[diamond Marchant]

On Community

I believe that communities in Second Life are the same as subreddits, that is, a shared interest or topic. In a virtual world, a physical space may be associated but the community comes first. Community is not based on geographical locality, as it is in RL.

This is why Bellisseria Community Centers are essentially ruins, that is, structures abandoned by their creators and now only visited by tourists.

If I were trying to retain new residents, I would attempt to make existing communities visible to them.

 

[benchthis]

The community enjoys the Lindens and Moles. After SLB every year is a time of great emptiness, at least for me. 

An official game style employment agency that will allow users to help Lindens and Moles with tedious projects. Tasks for everyone and every skill level. Payment would be experience. If only once a week, something that users can easily get involved with that does not require sending emails and being noticed by the right person. 

Having this would increase retention, usability, and sociability.

This would put to rest "there's nothing to do" 

I would take it a step further in world if those words were every entered pop up boxy 5000, nothing to do? sure there is? Lets get you started.. skills? 

 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

I've been thinking of a gridwide token system to go alongside of Linden Dollars. These tokens would only be able to be acquired by actions in-world - they wouldn't be available to buy or be directly transferrable from one account to another, and they couldn't be converted to real-world money. People could earn them by playing games, entering contests,  having roleplay "jobs", etc. and they could be cashed in for various no-transfer items. 

Giving them out would be tied to land ownership but they wouldn't cost anything to give out - they'd be generated by some scripted process. The sort of items you could get for them would be the equivalent of lucky board items, group gifts, etc. - a reason to go to stores that would have a larger range of items available for Lindens. I'd lean toward having them expire over time so the tokens won't be hoarded.

This system would allow people who aren't in a position to buy Lindens to be able to get items and encourage them to participate in things, and landowners could reward people for visiting without having the rewards come out of their pocket.It may be feasible to encourage landowners to use the system by giving them improved search positions and/or rebates on land tier, but that would need careful tuning to keep it from being gamed.

 

 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I've been thinking of a gridwide token system to go alongside of Linden Dollars. These tokens would only be able to be acquired by actions in-world - they wouldn't be available to buy or be directly transferrable from one account to another, and they couldn't be converted to real-world money. People could earn them by playing games, entering contests,  having roleplay "jobs", etc. and they could be cashed in for various no-transfer items. 

This is similar to IMVU's Promo credits which I think has a lot to with their much better new user retention. There is a downside to them for creators in the sense that the Promo credits received are not the value of a L$ and only count towards specific creator oriented expenses but it is still a win win in increasing the market size from new people who may not have otherwise ever stayed long enough to finally become an active consumer.

[benchthis]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I used to be comfortable assuming anybody whose status wasn't "Away" or "Do not disturb" would welcome a chat, but that seems wrong now, and the uninvited chat might be intrusive. So, what if we had an additional avatar status signifying availability to chat? Maybe it's weird to need such an invitation, but it might help, especially if those avatars are color-coded on the mini-map.

That's a cool idea and a needs help asap color on map. 

[benchthis]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

(Note, however, that traffic bots would fake the flag if it were required to count as "traffic", so let's not make that mistake. Count avatars regardless of activity status, and quit pretending "traffic" means anything at all unless and until the Lab decides to do something about enforcing the scripted-agent designation. Not to stir up that debate in this thread, but I would submit that "traffic" being meaningless is one factor undermining SL's social effectiveness.)

a do not render bot colors would be helpful considering all the bot problems i've been reading about. 

[Sparkle Bunny]

12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

They need to make the university a university for real useful information.. Not mixed with brand advertisement....

Ideally they'd supplement it with written material as well as the videos. I'm someone who learns better from text, so when I was a noob I read every SL blog I could find and learned from there, rather than looking for inworld classes or mentors. Basic prim building, freebie sources, places to explore... I got all that stuff from blogs.

I also feel group chats, rather than specific locations, are the natural home of communities. Welcome areas need group join boards as much as landmarks.

[Love Zhaoying]

Some interesting suggestions so far, thanks everyone for staying positive!

[benchthis]

18 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Well it has been mentioned on these forums before, and some people don't like it, but I think the addition of achievements could be great for sociability and retention. Adding gamification elements to SL would give users a purpose when they are struggling to find things to do, and maybe it could be set up in a way that encourages them to explore and try new things.

It would be cool to have physical fitness goals as achievements. Virtual 80s aerobics. light cardio. Fitness and diet trackers are kind of fun for those whom have not done them 1000s of time lol. Logging progress. Current avatar build based on stats and as we progress avatar evolves. Blahing out loud again.. 

[EliseAnne85]

11 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Visit orientation Island public ........that type of notecard has been there since the beginning

Interesting, I don't remember that.