A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[EliseAnne85]

16 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's pretty much what it already says in their Privacy Policy...Honestly, it's not that full of legalese, IMO.  

While we endeavour at all times to protect the privacy of our users and to ensure no harm is caused through our Services, given the nature of the tools, we have no obligation to keep private any information you made available to other users or the public using these functions. 

Any information, content or communications, including personal information, you provide when you use any of these features will be available to the recipients (dependent on the nature of the tool) and may be publicly posted and otherwise disclosed without limitation as to its use by us or by a third party.  

I was just using what I wrote as an example.  LL TOS and PP is pretty good but it could be shortened.  

It's Tilia that is unbelievable.  But, mainly I was talking about websites in general.  They could write things more matter of factly and not so wordy, and some really need to dump all that legalese.  I'm not even saying what I wrote as an example is better, even, because it was just an example.  But, my example wasn't my point about legalese - that trophy of confuse-us into a hypnotized mesmerized confused state with a headache goes to Tilia's TOS. 

My point in bringing it up is for the internet and websites overall.

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: gently guide new users to Destination Guide locations so they explore, versus stand at a safe hub or get roped into a trap.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Ceka Cianci]

58 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   People keep saying that, and I don't disagree - but as far as I can recall we've received no indication of what LL's official viewpoint on the issue is, or if they even consider it an issue.

   I just don't see why it should be on the shoulders of the users to worry about whether we've got 40,000 or 50,000 users at any given time (btw it's closer to 40,000 than 30,000 - right now there's 42,298), if LL doesn't. We don't know exactly how many new users sign up, log in, and never log back in again, or drop off after a few days or weeks - LL can monitor that, we can't; and whilst I don't believe LL are infallible I'm going to have to assume that they have a better understanding than us of what the platform's needs for its long-term health will be.

   If it was something as simple as making a new new user experience, knocking up a few good-looking regions with a good navigational course to walk new users through would cost them very little in terms of time and effort - heck, they could just as well just throw that stuff in to the Belli community regions that are otherwise pretty much unused (although those living right next to them mightn't want newbies wandering into their kitchens, so perhaps not?). They look amazing - and I don't want to downplay the hard work the LDPW put into them, but if they can do that just to dot the landscape with pretty things that has a handful of visitors daily that look around, but get bored of how dead it is and move along, it wouldn't be too farfetched that putting the expansion of Belliseria (which I'd consider another indicator of how well SL is doing) on hold for a moment to put something together.

   Or is it one of those things that it doesn't matter how much we shout and scream about because LL won't budge a millimetre unless it's formally proposed to them in the form of one of those magical JIRA thingies? Forumites have brought it up so many times over the past couple of years that it seems silly if that was the why. 

Honestly, It's just good, morning tea discussion.. I don't worry about it nearly as much as I sound like I do.. hehehe

[benchthis]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: gently guide new users to Destination Guide locations so they explore, versus stand at a safe hub or get roped into a trap.

Would not hurt to add the yellowbook of desintations to the destination guide in the menu. And some how make it easier to find? Maybe a default tool bar button for the big book of destinations  

There's already a distinations button in the tool bar but does not open the big book of destinations. Be most useful if it did as well. 

Also would be cool to be able to add custom tool bar buttons for more advanced users. I'd like a tool bar button to the LSL Portal, and It could be as simple as letting us copy and paste links into tool bar buttons. If so would need a way to be able to save these just incase viewer was installed on different computer, be a pain remaking custom tool bar buttons.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by benchthis

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

we have no obligation to keep private any information you made available to other users or the public using these functions. 

True, they do not have a legal obligation but from where I stand, they definitely do have a moral obligation. It's called doing the right thing.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, benchthis said:

Also would be cool to be able to add custom tool bar buttons for more advanced users.

You can already do this with Firestorm. Been that way for many years now.

[Caeruleiae]

18 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

More "games for the sake of games" in Second Life is one of my personal goals..

With the understanding that Second Life itself is not a game, of course.

Whether that increases retention or just gives people "something to do", I gots no clue.

 

Anything that gives people something to do would positively help with at least some retention. Its the most asked for thing I've seen, in world and on the forums from what I've read-what is there to do. 

If people run out of things to do or get bored with the things they do, they're more likely to leave temporary or permanent. Sl is pretty big and there's a lot of things to do, but sometimes people need more direction when they ask what is there to do besides-anything you want. That's too open ended for some people. 

Some people, new or not, probably want more things to do that can earn them money, but some, maybe even more people just want more direction or more specific things to do. Games for the sake of games would help with that I think. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

16 hours ago, benchthis said:

Would not hurt to add the yellowbook of desintations to the destination guide in the menu. And some how make it easier to find? Maybe a default tool bar button for the big book of destinations  

There's already a distinations button in the tool bar but does not open the big book of destinations. Be most useful if it did as well. 

Also would be cool to be able to add custom tool bar buttons for more advanced users. I'd like a tool bar button to the LSL Portal, and It could be as simple as letting us copy and paste links into tool bar buttons. If so would need a way to be able to save these just incase viewer was installed on different computer, be a pain remaking custom tool bar buttons.

 

There is NO "big book of destinations" to open, just plain old in world place search in some TPV's.

The destination guide is NOT something I'd force any noob to use as it is largely useless.

The Editor's Picks in particular. Half the entries are for tedious "trying too hard to be high-brow" dumps with traffic figures lower than the unused bathroom in my SL house.

Forcing poor day old noobs to visit these places as part of some mandatory guided tour of why NOT to stay in SL, will only harm retention.

As for bars with a custom selection of LM's, TPV's have had those for years. Only the official LL fail-viewer seems intent on hiding LM's from people.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Suggestion, or has it already been done - bring back last names, period, for everyone?

The whole "Resident" name thing created a "second class citizen", I'm afraid.

Having more "equality" could help retention, and less classism / more socialization.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Arielle Popstar]

20 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: gently guide new users to Destination Guide locations so they explore, versus stand at a safe hub or get roped into a trap.

Have to wonder if retention wouldn't be better if new male users were directed to Porn Hubs rather than Safe Hubs. Bet that has never been tried before.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Have to wonder if retention wouldn't be better if new male users were directed to Porn Hubs rather than Safe Hubs. Bet that has never been tried before.

Unspoken is the "Truth" that Adult Roleplay is a major draw for Second Life users.  Hard to advertise that without stepping on the wrong toes.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Have to wonder if retention wouldn't be better if new male users were directed to Porn Hubs rather than Safe Hubs. Bet that has never been tried before.

It probably doesn't take long after landing at a hub that they get an LM for one anyways.. hehehehe

 

 

[Marianne Little]

Newbies should not have to search for useful tools in the viewer. They should be ready there in the toolbar and visible. And they should not need to tab out of SL and search desperately for a tutorial. The boards with information should give them relevant links.

Newbies should land in a safer place, and bring the tutorial clicky board with them, so they can stand in a safe sandbox and bring them up. The learning tutorials should not be only in the welcome areas. Maybe the first time they come to SL, icons from the toolbar is magnified from the toolbar with a text and voice "This tool is to access the learning library" "This tool takes you to a Linden sandbox" Then the icon slowly reduce in size and find its place in the toolbar.

The sandboxes should be restricted in some way, so not all kind of bullies get there. Maybe for 0- 60 days old? They can go out and explore and find back to a Linden sandbox, by clicking and get transported back. And the sandboxes should be patrulled by Lindens who kick out and ban those who create an alt to stay there and make hell for 60 days? All the Lindens need to do, is go there as invisible, look and listen a short time. In random visits.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Marianne Little said:

Newbies should not have to search for useful tools in the viewer. They should be ready there in the toolbar and visible. And they should not need to tab out of SL and search desperately for a tutorial. The boards with information should give them relevant links.

Newbies should land in a safer place, and bring the tutorial clicky board with them, so they can stand in a safe sandbox and bring them up. The learning tutorials should not be only in the welcome areas. Maybe the first time they come to SL, icons from the toolbar is magnified from the toolbar with a text and voice "This tool is to access the learning library" "This tool takes you to a Linden sandbox" Then the icon slowly reduce in size and find its place in the toolbar.

The sandboxes should be restricted in some way, so not all kind of bullies get there. Maybe for 0- 60 days old? They can go out and explore and find back to a Linden sandbox, by clicking and get transported back. And the sandboxes should be patrulled by Lindens who kick out and ban those who create an alt to stay there and make hell for 60 days? All the Lindens need to do, is go there as invisible, look and listen a short time. In random visits.

Kind of interesting how SL and the viewer evolved, but the user education just kind of laid there and died a quiet death.

Now that there IS education about "nearly everything" on YT, etc...good luck finding what you're actually looking for!

[Marianne Little]

Yep, I think the Learning Library could look like the Destination Guide, and they can bring it up anytime, no matter where you are.

"This is how you search.This is how you create landmarks. They are stored here in your inventory"

"These places let you set home. This is how you do it. This is how you go home"

"This is how you change appearance, and dress yourself. This is the difference between wear and add" Newbies should learn that bolded!

"These places have free and inexpensive items. (list) You already have 25L to use on shopping. This is the Marketplace.(link) Use it to find more things to enhance your experience. Be careful when you shop. Linden Lab does not give you a refund"

They should start with a small amount from LL. Get them hooked on shopping.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Rowan Amore]

28 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It probably doesn't take long after landing at a hub that they get an LM for one anyways.. hehehehe

 

 

The search FREE SEX of course!  Not realizing that most sex in SL is free.  It's finding someone who will do it with your day old avatar that's the issue.  😆🤣

[Nalates Urriah]

3 hours ago, Caeruleiae said:

Anything that gives people something to do would positively help with at least some retention. Its the most asked for thing I've seen, in world and on the forums from what I've read-what is there to do.

There is this idea that all things should be give to one by others. Everything has to be easy, free, and effortless. I know the current conditioning directs people into that thinking. But it isn't realistic.

Those that do for their selves quickly find their way around SL and into interesting places. Simply by logging into one's dashboard there is all kinds of help. Exploring the SL websites provides days of reading. Unfortunately there is so much in SL it takes considerable effort to become aware of what is here. Where in the viewer will al that information fit?

2 hours ago, Zalificent said:

There is NO "big book of destinations" to open, just plain old in world place search in some TPV's

I think that is what the Destination Guide is.

The splash screen on the default viewer and most 3rd party viewers provide a wealth of information.

Inside most viewers is an abbreviated Guide.

4 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Newbies should not have to search for useful tools in the viewer. They should be ready there in the toolbar and visible. And they should not need to tab out of SL and search desperately for a tutorial. The boards with information should give them relevant links.

Right... we have 3,000+ controls in the viewer now and people are complaining about them crowding screen space...

Look at the images above. What is it they have to search for?

We have classes, tutorials, help buttons... the problem is getting people to read what is on the screen. What does one do to get people to pay attention? And when you do those things how do you keep people from feeling spammed and running away?

So my suggestion for here is we get real and learn what we have and try to understand why we think it isn't working. May be even determine if things are or aren't working.

[EliseAnne85]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The search FREE SEX of course!  Not realizing that most sex in SL is free.  It's finding someone who will do it with your day old avatar that's the issue.  😆🤣

Yeah, and I bet in the old days of just Classic avatars only, newbies were able to do just that.  Sign up and go for it.  

I didn't get much feedback on my suggestion of all avi's have a home, and I don't know if I should start a JIRA or not.  But, I think with the coming onslaught of AI (or else we are already smack dab in the middle of the AI onslaught) is to have all avatars have a home.  When log off happens, all avi's go home, even if it's a crappy default avatar starter home. 

They can rez right in their new default home and not need a sandbox.  Once they are in their cheapy starter home, instructions and landmarks would be readily available in their home upon starting.  They could then teleport to a newbie welcome area.  I am not a techo geek or anything but I was wondering if all avi's had a home, this could help cut down on an overkill of AI, which may come in the coming years?  People want to inact with a real person.  I like voice activation now for some things but it's not for socialization.  

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

So my suggestion for here is we get real and learn what we have and try to understand why we think it isn't working. May be even determine if things are or aren't working.

Good point. Maybe they ARE working, but the offerings just aren't a fit for young or new people these days.

It may not be about education, ease of use, etc. at all.

[Nalates Urriah]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Good point. Maybe they ARE working, but the offerings just aren't a fit for young or new people these days.

It may not be about education, ease of use, etc. at all.

How do you know what is "fit" and whether that is working for new people?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

How do you know what is "fit" and whether that is working for new people?

Exactly! Ding-Ding-Ding! * points at own nose *

If nobody knows that, it's hard to have a metric whether something is "working or not", and whether and how to change it.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

The more I read this thread, the more I realize how far and away SL's user experience is from what's happening in other super active online spaces packed with people and how much work it'll take to catch up. 

Sorry Love, I tried, I triiiiiiiiied I tried! 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

The more I read this thread, the more I realize how far and away SL's user experience is from what's happening in other super active online spaces packed with people and how much work it'll take to catch up. 

Sorry Love, I tried, I triiiiiiiiied I tried! 

Well then, you have a comparison, and presumably a metric, from which to formulate a "goal"! That's a starting point.

A lot better than merely complaining!

See what I did there?

* hands you some lemonade *

[Zalificent Corvinus]

25 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I think that is what the Destination Guide is.

No, the destination guide is a BADLY CURATED list of SOME suggested destinations, what it is not, is a "yellow pages of places in SL" which is what bench was referring to with "yellowbook" and "big book of".

I did some work for a LgBT+ club in SL, and the topic came up of how to promote the place, so I checked the wiki on "destination guide submissions", and found that at that time the official policy was

 

"We are no longer accepting submissions for A rated venues, and these are NOT shown in the in-viewer version of the guide"

 

There seems to be no sense in what makes it into the destination guide and what doesn't,  it's biased, and reeks of patronage and favour.

[EliseAnne85]

24 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

The more I read this thread, the more I realize how far and away SL's user experience is from what's happening in other super active online spaces packed with people and how much work it'll take to catch up. 

Sorry Love, I tried, I triiiiiiiiied I tried! 

Yeah, I re-read you post.  It's on page 4.  It's a good post, but needs a JIRA or the Lindens will not hear any of it, Ayashe, or so the legend says.  And how true  of what you wrote how SL is not build-friendly anymore, but then became a place to take pictures of other people's stuff.  Let's face the fact too that part of SL has corporate builders and those who are much more educated.

SL needs a new "Gacha" too because Gacha was so much more affordable for those wanting to have props for pictures *IF* one bought their gachas on the second-hand, resale market - those resale gachas were super cheap.  But, one thing Gacha did do was get a lot of people interested in mesh - those who were afraid of mesh because the thinking for a long time was that mesh was too much lag which is partly true as SL was not actually built for mesh.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by EliseAnne85