A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[benchthis]

19 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Well it has been mentioned on these forums before, and some people don't like it, but I think the addition of achievements could be great for sociability and retention. Adding gamification elements to SL would give users a purpose when they are struggling to find things to do, and maybe it could be set up in a way that encourages them to explore and try new things.

maybe completing achievements unlocks doorways to unknown places with even more achievements, never dull always fresh and updated.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, EliseAnne85 said:

11 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Visit orientation Island public ........that type of notecard has been there since the beginning

Interesting, I don't remember that.  

1. Breaking my promise for a second, my suggestion in the "other thread" was basically for "Tips" to come up in the viewer for new users.

In little bubbles, similar to the annotation word bubbles used in some software, and like the "tips" used in modern (Microsoft, etc.) software.

Not just "training" tips, but tips while they start to use it.

2. I had the additional idea that these "tips" could be extended to highlight "new features" as they are added to the viewer.

Anyway, I don't want to go into too much detail as it gets tedious. But I like my idea. LOL!

3. Today I had yet another "related" idea of adding a box "what do you want to do?" then depending on what the user selects, guiding them through it in the viewer with "tips". Not just for "training" - but even after training is "complete".  With the option to turn it off obviously, and back on.

[benchthis]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

Would LAG be an example? At SL19B at a Meet the Lindens live session, I asked the Lindens to give us their best advice on what steps residents can take to minimize lag, given the current state of their technology. The answer was... "Great idea, we'll make a SL University video about that."

That was June 2022. So far no video.

That was a fun mess. I get how users wish to be themselves with complexity over 300,000 and change clothing during events. Maybe they can try giving away avatars like bears that would be the key to getting into the event have to wear maybe one of several different styles that way the region maintains stability. Or birds or anything. or the key would be to have complexity under 200k and no updating outfit what so ever during event. After patch was trolled something needs to be done about this. 

[Ceka Cianci]

I think something that would inspire creating things would be an avenue to look into.. Also something where we can be more creative like before and more useful creations from right here in world..

Really the only reason SL has been around as long as it has, is because it's been a creative platform from the ground up.. It's sure not because we have the best stores on the internet.. I think the more we lose being able to be creative in here, the more we  set the clock to midnight.. The money might be good for awhile with people being pushed more to spend than to create, but it's not what has gotten us to this many years in longevity..  There was for the most part a nice balance over time, but more and more in the recent years it's been moving to buying things rather than making them..

There has to be some kind of way to getting people back into creating things again.. I just really think it's a big part of the meal on the plate..

I really don't think we are going to do much with throwing money at things or things trying to get someone to spend their time on for coins..  I think we need something that hooks in a bit more, like that same hook that grabbed a lot of us.. Something that after the flash and flair wears off and you are standing their by yourself, you can open up and burn the hours away wondering where the time went..

I think there has to be a way to get people inspired again.. I really don't think it would be too hard to get someone off the fast track and involved in something that they could learn and  fall in love with doing..

Everything on the net seems so short term and in it for the quit click or buck..  Just from helping new people you can feel the excitement when they learn how to do something in here..  I think that's a hornets nest worth hitting with the stick..

 

[benchthis]

59 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

They need a lot of videos.. They really should have a lot more than they do.. We don't need 15 brand mesh body videos.. Maybe just a basics on how the different mesh heads and bodies can work..

These videos should be in the virtual Second Life University, not sure if or when that will be built. But having a virtual place new and existing users can go to watch turtorials virtually seems to make sense. Maybe it can be located near the Ivory Tower, I think they would pair well together. 

[EliseAnne85]

6 hours ago, Asadora Summers said:

Personally, I think adding any 'goal setting achievement' is a bad idea or 'gamification' tactics would not be an ideal way to go trying to get more people interested in each other.
SL already has a reputation for being a 'game' over being a virtual world, which it is just that: A virtual world. And just like in the physical world, there are ups and downs in society, economy and infrastructure.

I like the idea of goal setting achievement for newbies because for one a mesh avatar is way more expensive than we started with the Classic which everyone had so we were on equal footing there when we started way back then.  We could then buy a skin and an AO for example but it wasn't the great expense that SL became with mesh.  However, NUX mesh starter avi's are coming which may help.  Not having to rush into a mesh avatar could be a help in and of itself.  

Plus, there are games in real life.  There is nothing wrong with games.  We have some games in SL.  I'm not talking about gamification for the whole of SL.  Games to play and enjoy.  But, I think some way to help newbies afford a mesh avatar has always been a good idea by using a goal system so they learn stuff.

Another thing to realize is that lower user retention may be due to the cost of upgrading to a mesh avatar, not to mention the huds are confusing at first when one is new to mesh.  It took me months of trying on heads to finally just go and buy one and then I realized it was a mistake; it just wasn't me.  I finally succeeded with something I really liked with my 3rd mesh head.  Mesh avatar creator's could offer a drop down greeter that says something along the lines of "please JOIN our GROUP for any questions about how to work HUDS, HEADS, etc."  I just messed with the mesh head huds until I finally realized, oh join the group to ask how to work this thingie.  My honest to God first thought about mesh heads and huds was, 'I will never figure out to work this thing'.  But, I was building too, so I didn't have much time for a mesh avatar.  I did finally take the plunge after hesitating quite a long time because as a builder I wasn't out and about like others anyways.  But, I finally changed to mesh avatar for my pictures. 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

36 minutes ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

Ideally they'd supplement it with written material as well as the videos. I'm someone who learns better from text, so when I was a noob I read every SL blog I could find and learned from there, rather than looking for inworld classes or mentors. Basic prim building, freebie sources, places to explore... I got all that stuff from blogs.

I also feel group chats, rather than specific locations, are the natural home of communities. Welcome areas need group join boards as much as landmarks.

Ya, basically useful information like going to the library for something.. Just something other than what they have now.. I think if they want to prop up brands, they should do that on a different channel.. I think learning centers should be generic in that sense and more about  the information..

I went through the start area last summer I think it was.. I ended  up is some privately owned start up area, which I didn't even know they had those until then.. It was the worst  start up experience I have went through in all my years  here..

Honestly, they just need to get those out of the hands of users and stop handing those kinds of things off to be taken advantage of.. The second  you step out of there it is right into a swamp full of advertisements..  I was like OMG this is the worst.. No wonder..

there was an option in the start area just after I was born, where I could go left to the tutorials or go right and head off into the world where all the advertisements are.. That right there  should be a reason to have a start up area pulled..

I'm in favor of note cards ,videos ,blogs or whatever information that is good information in whatever forms they can get it.. Because it's  lacking  so much at the moment..

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[benchthis]

27 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

31 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

12 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Visit orientation Island public ........that type of notecard has been there since the beginning

Interesting, I don't remember that.  

1. Breaking my promise for a second, my suggestion in the "other thread" was basically for "Tips" to come up in the viewer for new users.

In little bubbles, similar to the annotation word bubbles used in some software, and like the "tips" used in modern (Microsoft, etc.) software.

Not just "training" tips, but tips while they start to use it.

2. I had the additional idea that these "tips" could be extended to highlight "new features" as they are added to the viewer.

Anyway, I don't want to go into too much detail as it gets tedious. But I like my idea. LOL!

3. Today I had yet another "related" idea of adding a box "what do you want to do?" then depending on what the user selects, guiding them through it in the viewer with "tips". Not just for "training" - but even after training is "complete".  With the option to turn it off obviously, and back on.

Build tools would need a way to tell object that it will provide bubble tip and maybe read the tip for visually impaired? Tip could be in object description field or a new tip field or maybe managed in the content tab of build tools via note card.

3. Even if for basic tasks to help learn, let me show you how to build a bench. I'm starting to see boxy 5000 as default on side of chat and seeing huds with tips. 

[Caeruleiae]

19 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think something that would inspire creating things would be an avenue to look into.. Also something where we can be more creative like before and more useful creations from right here in world

I like the idea of improving creativity and encouraging more people to create. I will be honest and say that I don't like the idea of encouraging people to create using outside sources, like blender and stuff, except for when it comes to textures-because you need that. I would really love to see people build with prims. I've been looking at a lot of really old stuff from sl that people built with prims, and even some sculpties from before mesh came around and it's so cool. I wish I was been in sl back then. I'm pretty sure they didn't allow little kids back then, ha. Some of the things people could make from just prims is amazing though, and I'm impressed. 

Someone else mentioned building contests, somewhere. I think that could be a cool interactive way to increase socializing, community and encourage participation too, in some ways. I don't know how the logistics of it could be worked out, but it would be awesome. It would be really cool, even though I know it would never happen, to have building contests that involves just prims, no mesh or sculpt. Not a reasonable suggestion or idea, I know, but my brain is rarely ever reasonable. 

[EliseAnne85]

16 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Someone else mentioned building contests, somewhere. I think that could be a cool interactive way to increase socializing, community and encourage participation too, in some ways. I don't know how the logistics of it could be worked out, but it would be awesome. It would be really cool, even though I know it would never happen, to have building contests that involves just prims, no mesh or sculpt. Not a reasonable suggestion or idea, I know, but my brain is rarely ever reasonable.

I believe Raglan Shire has weekly games called "prim charades".  In prim charades one makes the object out of prims and then there are clues given and then people guess at what the person is building, and then the one who guesses correctly gets their turn to build something while people guess what it is.   Perhaps take the idea of prim charades and make a bigger group build.  It could be done.  You'd be surprised how creative some people are with prim charades and their builds.  It's not as easy a guess as it sounds.

[Bree Giffen]

How about a button on your screen that says, "Go somewhere with someone" that teleports you to a random event or curated destination and also teleports another person who has also clicked the button their screen? Or maybe some variation of the idea, such as a button that says 'random gathering area' and if enough people click on it they all get teleported to that place. 

[Ceka Cianci]

21 hours ago, benchthis said:

These videos should be in the virtual Second Life University, not sure if or when that will be built. But having a virtual place new and existing users can go to watch turtorials virtually seems to make sense. Maybe it can be located near the Ivory Tower, I think they would pair well together. 

It's actually their youtube channel..

I think since they are coming out soon with their own mesh body and mesh head and wardrobe and other things for it, Their university should be built more for the newer users  and getting them more informed about Second life in general.. The NUX Mesh avatar really should be the only mesh body and head in there, Once it gets here.. The rest are products that a new user has to pay for.. Where the NUX avatar and all of it's things, will be given to every user, as well as it's development kit..

Just the development kit alone could inspire users to be more creative.. there is no having to have a business to get the kit, so it can be a great training tool if users decided to move to applying for other mesh body and head and hair and so on kits.

Having all those other products in a learning center, is more just advertising than teaching..  Having more than one mesh body and head to get the basics down of how things work, Will be kind of cluttering and distracting to learning..

If they want to retain more new users, they need to concentrate on informing them..Because right now, they just get thrown out there to fend for themselves with no idea what to do..

They really need a lot of subjects covered that a new user can draw from.. We lose so many for things we see as simple..

Edited February 11, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Nalates Urriah]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:19 PM, Caeruleiae said:

...

Fix the destination guide. Inworld in fs there's a thing in the world menu where you can bring it up and it has some of the places listed and some show current number of people, but I don't think most people use that, I think they use the webpage one. The webpage one is stupid, a lot of the places on it are gone, none of them on that page really tell you if they are busy places or not, there's not much rhyme or reason to it either. That whole destination guide webpage, and all its content needs scrubbed completely and started over. My travels tell me over half the places I visited from links on the different categories are not there, that's terrible. Others you land in weird places, including buildings and rocks. It's just a awful mess. 

....

This is an item we can help with. When you use the Guide and find a place listed no longer exists, report it.

An improvement to the Guide's pages would be a button for reporting bad entries in the Guide.

I think a good idea would be to have discussion on an idea in a separate thread linked to from here.

Many of the ideas suggested have already been tried. Likely before the time of the one suggesting the idea. There are plenty of people around that were here when the ideas were tried.

And we have had universities come in and study SL. We actually have objective data on what works to keep people in SL. See: Longevity in Second Life
Chun-Yuen Teng and Lada A. Adamic. The TL:DR is interaction with other people within SL is what keeps people in SL. The Greeters/helpers for newbies didn't provide the interaction needed. The Lindens tested that. People that never met a greeter were more likely to stay. Weird. But the stats were conclusive. So think about the study's conclusion and the Lab's findings about Greeters-Helpers. Once that is understood I think it is more obvious what may and won't work.

Novices always come up simple and obvious ideas. To move past the beginner level stuff one has to be educated with the information available and list of things tried and knowledge of how they were tried and WHY it was concluded they did or didn't work. An example is Last Names.

[Caeruleiae]

22 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Novices always come up simple and obvious ideas. To move past the beginner level stuff one has to be educated with the information available and list of things tried and knowledge of how they were tried and WHY it was concluded they did or didn't work. An example is Last Names.

We may come up with simple ideas, but you all have come up with every other idea and they've all failed. Maybe simpletons like us novices should be listened to every now and then.  This is an extremely rude approach to a positive thread. If a idea comes up that's already been tried, why not point people to that idea, explain why it didn't work, assuming you even know why it didn't work and not just that it failed. Maybe someone has a better way that the ideas can be tried, to see if they work, you don't really know if you don't try. It's never a bad idea to expand on things. I've read a few different studies on sl, and not all of them have the same conclusions, which just proves that not everyone sees things the same. 

Just because people are new, novices, not as seasoned as you, doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute, the elitist crap is a big part of what keeps people away. You can pretend it's not by citing whatever studies you want, but it is. It's also part of what makes helpers like greeters not work, when they adopt similar type attitudes. Maybe they get burnt out, maybe that negatively affects their ability to do what they need to. That happens in all types of mentor, greeter, helper programs. Even the company I work for has to rotate out who trains new people, because burn out is real and it becomes a big problem if let to fester.   If you want to talk about new user retention, you need new users perspectives, not just seasoned users, or worse, people just studying for the sake of writing a study. 

The destination guide is broke. It's been broke since before I signed up for sl. I've read and heard that same complaint all over the place. It is just broke. A report button will definitely help to fix it, but you're still relying on us novices to do all the reporting, because most seasoned people in here don't use the destination guide at all. We get pointed to it as new users and it's broke. 

You can't get past the beginner stuff to be educated when the beginner stuff is broken. You can't blame the beginner when the tools you hand them, are broken. Insulting the beginner because you're forcing them to use broken tools and they can't get past the beginner stages is just stupid. It's not their fault you all broke sl. 

[Love Zhaoying]

Y'all play nice! 

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

most seasoned people in here don't use the destination guide at all.

I use it almost every day.  Not sure what exactly is broken that you're referring to.  Places close and no one thinks to inform LL.  TPing somewhere that is something else isn't the end of the world.  I did it when I was new lots of times.  I generally still start with Recently Added or Editor's Picks.  

[Ayashe Ninetails]

28 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Maybe simpletons like us novices should be listened to every now and then.

I don't think you're simpletons and I believe new user feedback is a million percent valuable and the type of thing LL ought to be paying extremely close attention to. After all, that's who we're trying to attract in the first place.

People are coming here from (and leaving to!) all kinds of online spaces (Discord communities, MMOs, BR games, roleplaying communities, building games, social media, YouTube, etc.) - everybody's feedback provides insight into how the platform is used and how it could improve. New users, older users, returning users - what makes people leave, what makes them return, what brings them in brand new, what makes them stay, etc. All good. Keep sharing ideas. ❤️

[Caeruleiae]

14 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I use it almost every day.  Not sure what exactly is broken that you're referring to.  Places close and no one thinks to inform LL.  TPing somewhere that is something else isn't the end of the world.  I did it when I was new lots of times.  I generally still start with Recently Added or Editor's Picks.  

People do inform ll, they don't get taken off. I didn't say it was the end of the world, lol. Just because it's broken doesn't mean the whole of sl is broke just because of that. I tp all kinds of places that end up not being where I was trying to go, or just not there anymore. The problem with the destination guide itself is that no one at ll ever fixes it or takes off the places that are broke. No one fixes the landing spots that put you in places the people who own the lands don't want you landing in.  I don't know a better fix other than having a report button or just starting the guide over from scratch. It seems it wouldn't be that difficult if ll has someone at the helm of that feature to keep up with it. It doesn't even require any coding or changes to viewers. It's pages, with destinations. 

Most of the people that have been in here a while longer that I ask about the destination guide all say, don't even bother with it, since none of them do. At least not the webpage one, the inworld one that you get form the world menu is more accurate and those places aren't gone, plus they show how many people are there.

Adding something, it can be frustrating for people who are new and not just as used to tping all over the place, if they encounter place after place that isn't what the guide says it is. It might not be as frustrating to other people, I get that, but new people who are just trying to find places to go, it can be. New people tend to tp all over anyway and who knows what we might run into, we don't, until we learn some more. Destination guide is one of the things new people get pointed to, so it should work a bit better. 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Caeruleiae

[Love Zhaoying]

Ok, so for that suggestion / discussion: "Destination Guide" could use some cleanup / reporting / TLC from LL regardless of whether it is "broken". 

See? We can listen and be positive without being critical and judgemental.

Any new and/or different suggestions / ideas so we don't get stuck further in the weeds of that one?

Edited February 11, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Horus Salubrius]

Take it out of the US & bring back gambling / gaming !   ( I jest ...  sorta ) 

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Horus Salubrius said:

Take it out of the US & bring back gambling / gaming !   ( I jest ...  sorta ) 

That would have the positive side effect of creating business for SL addiction centers. Good Show!

ETA: I'm all about the silver linings. Plus, it may help get SL in the news, much-needed publicity! The other m'verses would be jealous.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

Got one: Create an entire class of no-cost AI "Registered Agent" whose only purpose is to assist and guide users with Second Life.

[Ceka Cianci]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Got one: Create an entire class of no-cost AI "Registered Agent" whose only purpose is to assist and guide users with Second Life.

That's exactly what an evil AI would suggest that wants to get their army in here and keel us all! \o/

[Love Zhaoying]

56 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That's exactly what an evil AI would suggest that wants to get their army in here and keel us all! \o/

Like the song says, "Don't Fear the Reaper!" 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Improve user retention by removing the option to log out, once you catch them never let them go!