Difficullt start for new participants?

[Love Zhaoying]

48 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I always show my Inventory "Sort by Most Recent", "Sort System Folders to Top". I rarely organize inventory more than necessary to keep the top level item count below 10K for folders, which often means simple subfolders named by year. This all works fine for me (but then I never organize email either).

Fine, that is, until I update a body or head or something that's in many Outfits, and "Replace Links" results in all those outfits getting updated in some non-chronological order. That's messy.

Also, at some point I hacked a little script  that monitors changes in what (non-HUD) items I'm wearing and on demand pops up a browser table with the most recent 70 or so changes, in the order they occurred. Apparently I posted the source code at some point because it has my public domain notice from 2020, but anyway it's more a proof of concept than anything real people should be wearing around the grid.

I just played with the sorting for the first time since the sorting has been annoying me.

It sure would be nice if you could choose the sorting for individual subfolders!

Sometimes I rename subfolders with a "_" prefix so they "rise to the top".

In this case, I had to keep "sort folder by name" or the top level folders would seem "random" (due to new vs. old usage) and the child subfolders would make sense.  Too annoying.. 

My "hacky" solution this time was, if I added a subfolder and I wanted it to raise to the top, since adding "_" prefix didn't work for folders "1.0", "2.0" etc., I changed the newest one to "0.7." and it rose to the top as desired above "1.0", 2.0", etc. 

I was surprised that adding a "0" prefix to "07" did not cause "07" to rise above "1"!

 

[Flea Yatsenko]

On 1/7/2023 at 11:41 AM, Rolig Loon said:

The simplified viewer was introduced about 2009 and it was dead unpopular, so it didn't last very long. I suspect part of the problem was that you couldn't do much beyond basic movements and dressing yourself. Even early on, people know that there's a lot more to SL than that, so they might as well use the real viewer.

 

On 1/7/2023 at 10:32 AM, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I seem to remember the Lab making an easy, simplified  viewer years ago.  Am I remembering that wrong?  

I don't know why that viewer didn't make it.  Maybe it didn't have enough options and very few new accounts used it, but it would be nice to have an simplified option for the first few weeks for new accounts.  

 

On 1/7/2023 at 2:56 PM, Solar Legion said:

A "simplified" viewer? Really?

People coming in from elsewhere need to drop their expectations and be ready to actually learn how do use the simpler parts of the interface while being exposed to the more "advanced" bits.

The Sims? No - no reason to take any inspiration from it - two rather different things.

VR Chat? That interface is kept simple because the systems in use are also simple/limited in scope. Any building/content creation done there is done fully through the use of external tools and an SDK set. Any real editing of your Avatar must be done the same way if you're looking to do more than utilize the options you're given on any particular public model - you're better off in fact, actually hiring a creator for such work for that platform. No, not a model to be taking hints of any sort from either.

A good number of the build, edit and even "advanced" or "debug" functions in the main Viewer as well as TPVs are useful for/to more than just the Creator types as well (hello Beacon system and a good chunk of the edit dialog as a start).

Cripes ....

People are giving me issue over this, but in 2009, smart phones were brand new and quite honestly not really popular yet. Now there are lots of people, especially younger, who grew up with nothing but a phone or tablet and something like a computer is completely alien to them. There are plenty of articles about people who can't even handle or understand files and folders because all they use is search. People who can't even use a keyboard well because they grew up on touch screen keyboards. A lot of these people are in their 20s already.

It's safe to assume almost all of us grew up with actual computers. We're used to all this stuff. A lot of people today aren't. The times have changed, and unfortunately they've gotten simpler and, ignore my lack of political correctness, dumber. It's really easy to look at the viewer right now if you're used to actual computers and think it's fine. But the majority of people aren't fine with it anymore. And if you want SL to be anything other than some niche thing only hardcore computer users like it's going to have to change to get with the times.

The times have changed, in 2009 the primary computer device was an actual computer. Now it's a phone or tablet. Computer people can easily handle files and folders and huge menus and busy interfaces. Phone and tablet people can't, everything is based around search and being simple and easy to use. Computers are the opposite.

There's also a billion things on the internet vying for people's attention, 10 years ago it wasn't so bad. But with all this competition, it's very easy for someone to look at a complex interface and just go "NOPE!" and move onto something else. It used to be if you wanted a virtual world, you basically just had SL. Now there's minecraft, roblox, VR chat, all sorts of things. And all of them are easier to start with. VR Chat has (had?) virtually no IP enforcement. You could go on there and dress up as your favorite IP for free and no one (legally) would care. People had patience for SL when it was the only one in town. Now there's competition and being difficult to use means people will just give up and try something else, instead of trying to take the time to learn.

 

[Solar Legion]

You seem to have mistakenly lumped my response in with several others. Mine was concerning this notion that a "simplified" (meaning stripped down/fewer options available/fewer settings/etc) Viewer is "needed". It isn't.

I've aired my views on mobile Viewers elsewhere in the past. I'm not going to repeat them.

[Sid Nagy]

We can discuss possible changes from here to the moon and back, bottom line is:
When a new potential customer tries SL, than there are 2 things that can happen:
1 They somehow like the idea behind SL, return, get hooked and learn step by step what they need to learn.
2. They don't like it, maybe return once or twice, find whatever reason to pack up and leave.

IMHO it is not about organizing the inventory, the complicated viewer or not, pie menu or not. It is about liking what you find or you don't.

I was hooked within a day and I am still here despite a lot of flaws and needed improvements. And I still only know half of the options available in the viewers.  I simply sort out what I need to know, IF I need to know.

In the end: SL isn't everyone's beer. We live in a niche-market. Retention rates always will be low.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Qie Niangao]

51 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sometimes I rename subfolders with a "_" prefix so they "rise to the top".

In Catznip, there's an option to set a sub folder to "Show as System Folder" which may do other things too, but I use it to pull them to the top of the listing of whatever folder they're in, when system folders are sorted to the top. I never really checked what becomes of those folders when using another viewer.

[Istelathis]

37 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

The times have changed, in 2009 the primary computer device was an actual computer. Now it's a phone or tablet. Computer people can easily handle files and folders and huge menus and busy interfaces. Phone and tablet people can't, everything is based around search and being simple and easy to use. Computers are the opposite.

What you probably would want is a stripped down viewer for use on a phone, rather than a PC - which would make sense as a lack of keyboard and mouse would certainly require such a viewer.  Even modern phones would probably have a difficult time rendering the world though, and deplete their batteries relatively quickly so it would need to be either streamed content, or a viewer (or the server that pushes the content to the viewer) that is streamlined to render the mesh and textures in the world differently which would be a huge undertaking.

For modern stand alone VR headsets, it would be the same scenario as it is for phones.  A simplified GUI, and likely streamed content.  

The demographic you are wanting to appeal to, will not as likely move to the PC market anytime soon.  I think that having SL on mobile viewers would be a huge undertaking though, at that point if we wish to encourage new customers, it would probably just be easier for LL to make a new platform entirely.  That would be an incredibly risky move for them, due to competition and would infuriate a lot of active SL members considering how poorly Sansar performed at the cost of SecondLife.

[Patchouli Senne]

On 12/25/2022 at 6:47 PM, TimKoul said:

Is there really no teachable method on how to buy and wear a piece of clothing for new people? It's not so complicated once you get used to it but SL has always had a bit of a hard learning curve. 

I find a lot of good tutorials on YouTube.  Find some from Strawberry Singh.  She works for Linden Labs now but her old stuff is still out there

[Lindal Kidd]

On 1/7/2023 at 11:32 AM, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I don't know why that viewer didn't make it.  Maybe it didn't have enough options and very few new accounts used it,

As a mentor who encountered many newbies during this viewer fiasco, I have the answer for you! The viewer didn't allow new users to edit their appearance. They could switch among the starter avatars, but that was it. And of course, the first thing that about 90% of new users want to do is...edit their appearance!

We got very good at telling people how to log off, switch the viewer to "advanced" mode, and log back in.

[Arielle Popstar]

11 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Cunomar was talking about something the newbie just bought. What you're describing wouldn't be what I'd expect from a "Recent" tab.

Regardless if it is old or new, rezz an older object out on the ground and then take it back to inventory, the item still shows under the recent tab. Wear an item from inventory and it will show in the current outfit under the Recent tab but then remove it, it disappears from the recent tab altogether. Inconsistent behaviour for objects and solely dependent on whether the item is rezzed on the ground or worn. It would be helpful for old and new alike if the item worn would also stay listed in the recent tab for quick and ready access if it was removed by mistake or intent and one wants to rewear it without have to search for it. Since it does it for one object, then it would be expected behaviour for the other.

[Solar Legion]

That is not "inconsistent behavior" - it vanishing from the Current Outfit folder while the "Recent" tab is active is as intended. That folder's contents change with whatever you're currently wearing. Nothing within that folder is permanent.

Everything within there is a temporary "Linked" type item (a temporary version of the entries the Outfit folders themselves use). They do not stick around when you change what you are wearing/have attached.

Any item that is Rezzed is checked against its permissions and either remains in your inventory (if it has Copy permission) or is removed from your Inventory as part of the Rez process (if it does not have the Copy permission). If you then pick this copy up you have now added a new instance of the object into your inventory. Now as for No Copy items (which are moved out and back in again), remember as above that an Object that is set to No Copy must be removed from your Inventory if you are trying to Rezz it out? This is because when you drag an item from Inventory out with the intent to Rezz it, you are telling the Region (and Simulator as well as the Asset servers) that you are wanting to have it displayed in world but not attached to your avatar (different protocols for the two really). It reads that data, starts the process of actually Rezzing the Object, sends a message to the Asset system that an Object has been removed from your Inventory and thus the entry needs to be deleted.

Now, when you pick this Object back up after all of this why ... It has to do the above in reverse after a fashion. By the end of the process the Rezzed Object no longer exists and the data points that make up a brand spanking new Inventory entry are created. It is a brand new Object in your Inventory and thus - Recent.

Once again, there is no inconsistency with this. At all. Both are "new Objects" - no matter if one is a Copy of the original or if the original was removed and taken back up.

No inconsistency with the Current Outfit folder either: None of those entries actually exist server side. That whole fold is just there to make it easier to take off whatever is attached to you = no new Inventory entries are actually being made/changed.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Solar Legion

[cunomar]

"The VHS as a media device dominated the home movie industry from the 1970's to the early 2000's. Multiple recursions of the media device, the VHS and S-VHS, saw the rise and fall of the VHS kingdom over three decades, as it transitioned from every family's go-to technology, to a dusty remnant of times gone by."

And during that time legend has it that 3 people actually learned how to record a tv show at a set time when they were not physically present lol .

[Qie Niangao]

This "Recents" tab confusion is interesting though. I mean, the tab is really shorthand for a commonly used filter setting on display of Inventory items—that is, "recent" history of stuff as it affects the Inventory, which only sometimes corresponds to "recent" events of interest that involved user interaction with Inventory items.

I think such events that are of interest to the user but not actual changes to Inventory are (all?) about wearing and removing items. The hack I mentioned earlier can track (by name only) what external attachments are worn and removed, which seems like a start, but some of the most annoying (and presumably newbie-befuddling) effects don't involve attachments at all, but rather application of system texture layers on BoM mesh and (diabolical) applier-based scribbling on attachments that are nowhere reflected by any change in Inventory nor even recorded by the applier or the attachment to which it was applied.

Then there are all the avatar shape sliders, and whatever controls festoon the mesh attachment's HUDs.

Imagine an avatar customization protocol that only ever affected the avatar in ways that could be step-wise undone, a la Ctrl-Z, at least all the way back to the start of a login session. I'm guessing NUX will bring us exactly no closer to that basic functionality. It's not that this particular Undo interaction is the thing newbies want the most, but every reason we can't do that is a reason avatar customization in SL is simply too complicated for the effects it achieves.

And those effects? They're all just barely the beginning of how we'll want to customize our avatars.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Qie Niangao

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

This "Recents" tab confusion is interesting though. I mean, the tab is really shorthand for a commonly used filter setting on display of Inventory items—that is, "recent" history of stuff as it affects the Inventory, which only sometimes corresponds to "recent" events of interest that involved user interaction with Inventory items.

I think such events that are of interest to the user but not actual changes to Inventory are (all?) about wearing and removing items. The hack I mentioned earlier can track (by name only) what external attachments are worn and removed, which seems like a start, but some of the most annoying (and presumably newbie-befuddling) effects don't involve attachments at all, but rather application of system texture layers on BoM mesh and (diabolical) applier-based scribbling on attachments that are nowhere reflected by any change in Inventory nor even recorded by the applier or the attachment to which it was applied.

Then there are all the avatar shape sliders, and whatever controls festoon the mesh attachment's HUDs.

Imagine an avatar customization protocol that only ever affected the avatar in ways that could be step-wise undone, a la Ctrl-Z, at least all the way back to the start of a login session. I'm guessing NUX will bring us exactly no closer to that basic functionality. It's not that this particular Undo interaction is the thing newbies want the most, but every reason we can't do that is a reason avatar customization in SL is simply too complicated for the effects it achieves.

And those effects? They're all just barely the beginning of how we'll want to customize our avatars.

The confusion is hmm..bizarre? Confusing? I guess people who mostly use Inventory for "worn items" could conflate "recently worn" with "recently received/modified".

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 1/8/2023 at 5:35 PM, Christina Halpin said:

I mean, are we saying you need an IQ of 130 and a substantial investment of time before SL becomes anything but a frustrating experience? I think we are agreeing on that, just taking a different perspective on what should be done.

Thinking about it, it's not really a matter of intelligence. I know people who seem to be thriving in Second Life who I honestly wonder how they feed themselves, because sometimes I'm surprised that they could figure out how to operate a refrigerator, much less something complicated like a microwave oven.

Meanwhile, this weekend I'm scheduled to help a friend who's in the upper levels of academia and who's been in SL considerably longer than me but who has manage to completely jack up their avatar after doing something that most current SL users do fairly easily and they have no idea of how to fix it.

I think the big factor is attitude. I honestly think it helps to be somewhat scatterbrained. If you're used to causing minor screw-ups in your life but you take them with the attitude of, "Oh Magoo, you've done it again..." and try to figure out how fix them and stop them from happening again you'll find Second Life to be nothing out of the ordinary.

If, on the other hand, you feel that Things Should Work a Certain Way and if they don't that's Somebody Else's Fault, you might as well leave Second Life as soon as possible to stop wasting your own time and everyone else's.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[Arielle Popstar]

9 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

That is not "inconsistent behavior" - it vanishing from the Current Outfit folder while the "Recent" tab is active is as intended. That folder's contents change with whatever you're currently wearing. Nothing within that folder is permanent.

Everything within there is a temporary "Linked" type item (a temporary version of the entries the Outfit folders themselves use). They do not stick around when you change what you are wearing/have attached.

Any item that is Rezzed is checked against its permissions and either remains in your inventory (if it has Copy permission) or is removed from your Inventory as part of the Rez process (if it does not have the Copy permission). If you then pick this copy up you have now added a new instance of the object into your inventory. Now as for No Copy items (which are moved out and back in again), remember as above that an Object that is set to No Copy must be removed from your Inventory if you are trying to Rezz it out? This is because when you drag an item from Inventory out with the intent to Rezz it, you are telling the Region (and Simulator as well as the Asset servers) that you are wanting to have it displayed in world but not attached to your avatar (different protocols for the two really). It reads that data, starts the process of actually Rezzing the Object, sends a message to the Asset system that an Object has been removed from your Inventory and thus the entry needs to be deleted.

Now, when you pick this Object back up after all of this why ... It has to do the above in reverse after a fashion. By the end of the process the Rezzed Object no longer exists and the data points that make up a brand spanking new Inventory entry are created. It is a brand new Object in your Inventory and thus - Recent.

Once again, there is no inconsistency with this. At all. Both are "new Objects" - no matter if one is a Copy of the original or if the original was removed and taken back up.

No inconsistency with the Current Outfit folder either: None of those entries actually exist server side. That whole fold is just there to make it easier to take off whatever is attached to you = no new Inventory entries are actually being made/changed.

Your post doesn't address my point, copy or no copy. An object rezzed or worn should be listed in the Recent column. In fact if one rezzes an attachment out on the ground and then wears it from there and subsequently removes it from Worn, the attachment remains under the Recent tab, pointing out it is the pathway used that determines whether or not it will be listed there.

-Minor quibble, the Current Outfit must be listed server side because one can go to a different viewer on a different machine and login with the exact same outfit on. That says the server is aware and keeps a record of what is worn.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If, on the other hand, you feel that Things Should Work a Certain Way and if they don't that's Somebody Else's Fault, you might as well leave Second Life as soon as possible to stop wasting your own time and everyone else's.

And yet you and a few others here seem to have the exact same problem in that you will fight tooth and claw for things to stay exactly as they are with no further development to make S/L more user friendly for new or older users.

[Arielle Popstar]

21 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, at some point I hacked a little script  that monitors changes in what (non-HUD) items I'm wearing and on demand pops up a browser table with the most recent 70 or so changes, in the order they occurred. Apparently I posted the source code at some point because it has my public domain notice from 2020, but anyway it's more a proof of concept than anything real people should be wearing around the grid.

Where could I find that? That would be handy and save me a pile of aggravation.

[Theresa Tennyson]

18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And yet you and a few others here seem to have the exact same problem in that you will fight tooth and claw for things to stay exactly as they are with no further development to make S/L more user friendly for new or older users.

Could you point out where I said, "Things must stay the same way," rather than, "That will not do what you think/will be a very large amount of work for a limited return?"

[Qie Niangao]

45 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Where could I find that? That would be handy and save me a pile of aggravation.

Yeah, I can't remember where I may have posted it before, so here's the source. Again, it's proof-of-concept, not product quality code, but maybe somebody will be inspired to make it "real" if there's interest in using it. It offers the read-out when touched, so drop it in some handy HUD-attached prim not otherwise touch-activated.

/*
    Monitor visible attachments and report a history of changes
    Released into Public Domain by Qie Niangao, 2020
*/

float SAMPLING_INTERVAL = 120.0; // seconds. Be gentle to the sim, use 120.0 or so except for testing

list attNamesBefore;    // names are all we can report, and attachments get all new UUIDs on login
string record;
integer minFreeMem;
string date;
key urlReqId;
key owner;
string lastURL;

string formattedTime()
{
    integer t = (integer)llGetWallclock();  // seconds since midnight Pacific time
    return ("\n<tr><td colspan='2' class='cx'>"
        + llGetSubString("0" + (string)(t / 3600), -2, -1) + ":" 
        + llGetSubString("0" + (string)((t / 60) % 60), -2, -1)
    +"</td></tr>");
}

string htmlEscape(string inStr)
{
    inStr = llDumpList2String(llParseStringKeepNulls(inStr, ["&"], []), "&amp;");
    inStr = llDumpList2String(llParseStringKeepNulls(inStr, ["<"], []), "&lt;");
    inStr = llDumpList2String(llParseStringKeepNulls(inStr, [">"], []), "&gt;");
    inStr = llDumpList2String(llParseStringKeepNulls(inStr, ["\""], []), "&quot;");
    inStr = llDumpList2String(llParseStringKeepNulls(inStr, ["'"], []), "&apos;");
    return(inStr);
}
default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        minFreeMem = (integer)((float)llGetFreeMemory() * 0.6);
        list attachments = llGetAttachedList(owner = llGetOwner());
        integer attIdx = llGetListLength(attachments);
        while (0 <= --attIdx)
            attNamesBefore += htmlEscape(llList2String(llGetObjectDetails(llList2Key(attachments, attIdx), [OBJECT_NAME]), 0));
        attNamesBefore = llListSort(attNamesBefore, 1, FALSE);
        date = llGetDate();
        record = "\n<tr><th colspan='2'>"+date
            +"</th></tr>"+formattedTime()
            +"\n<tr><td> </td><td>"+llDumpList2String(attNamesBefore, "\n</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td>")
            +"</td></tr>";
        llSetTimerEvent(SAMPLING_INTERVAL);
    }
    on_rez(integer start_param)
    {
        llSetTimerEvent(SAMPLING_INTERVAL); // be gentle to sim when logging in
    }
    changed(integer change)
    {
        if (CHANGED_OWNER & change)
            llResetScript();
        else
        if (CHANGED_REGION & change)
            llSetTimerEvent(SAMPLING_INTERVAL); // be gentle to sim when first arriving
    }
    attach(key av)
    {
        if (NULL_KEY != av)
            llRequestPermissions(av, PERMISSION_TAKE_CONTROLS);
    }
    run_time_permissions(integer perms)
    {
        if (PERMISSION_TAKE_CONTROLS & perms)
            llTakeControls(CONTROL_ML_LBUTTON, FALSE, TRUE);    // just to keep working on no-script land
    }
    timer()
    {
        string moreRecord;
        list attachments = llGetAttachedList(owner);
        list attNamesNow;
        integer attNowIdx = llGetListLength(attachments);
        while (0 <= --attNowIdx)
            attNamesNow += htmlEscape(llList2String(llGetObjectDetails(llList2Key(attachments, attNowIdx), [OBJECT_NAME]), 0));
        attNamesNow = llListSort(attNamesNow, 1, FALSE);
        attNowIdx = llGetListLength(attNamesNow) - 1;
        integer attBeforeIdx = llGetListLength(attNamesBefore) - 1;
        while ((0 <= attNowIdx) || (0 <= attBeforeIdx))
        {
            if (0 > attNowIdx)
            {
                moreRecord += "\n<tr><td>-</td><td>"+llList2String(attNamesBefore, attBeforeIdx)+"</td></tr>";
                --attBeforeIdx;
            }
            else
            if (0 > attBeforeIdx)
            {
                moreRecord += "\n<tr><td>+</td><td>"+llList2String(attNamesNow, attNowIdx)+"</td></tr>";
                --attNowIdx;
            }
            else
            {
                string nameNow = llList2String(attNamesNow, attNowIdx);
                string nameBefore = llList2String(attNamesBefore, attBeforeIdx);
                if (nameNow == nameBefore)
                {
                    --attBeforeIdx;
                    --attNowIdx;
                }
                else
                if (nameNow == llList2String(llListSort([nameNow, nameBefore], 1, FALSE), 0)) // nameNow < nameBefore
                {
                    moreRecord += "\n<tr><td>-</td><td>"+nameBefore+"</td></tr>";
                    --attBeforeIdx;
                }
                else
                {
                    moreRecord += "\n<tr><td>+</td><td>"+nameNow+"</td></tr>";
                    --attNowIdx;
                }
            }
        }
        if ("" == moreRecord)   // no attachment change
            return;
        moreRecord = formattedTime() + moreRecord;
        string newDate = llGetDate();
        if (newDate != date)
        {
            date = newDate;
            moreRecord = "\n<tr><th colspan='2'>"+date+"</th></tr>" + moreRecord;
        }
        record += moreRecord;
        attNamesBefore = attNamesNow;
        moreRecord = "";
        attNamesNow = [];
        integer recoverMem = minFreeMem - llGetFreeMemory();
        if (0 < recoverMem) // after running a while, this will happen frequently
        {
            record = llGetSubString(record, recoverMem, -1);    // purge oldest lines
            record = llGetSubString(record, llSubStringIndex(record, "\n"), -1);
            llSetMemoryLimit(65536 - minFreeMem);
            llSetMemoryLimit(65536);
        }
    }
    touch_start(integer num_detected)
    {
        llReleaseURL(lastURL);
        urlReqId = llRequestURL();
    }
    http_request(key id, string method, string body)
    {
        if ((urlReqId == id) && (method == URL_REQUEST_GRANTED))
            llLoadURL(owner, "Get Attachment History", lastURL = body);
        else
        if (method == "GET")
        {
            llSetContentType(id, CONTENT_TYPE_XHTML);
            llHTTPResponse(id, 200, 
"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC '-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN' 'http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd'>
<html xmlns='http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml'>
<head><meta http-equiv='Content-Type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8' /><title>Attachment History</title>
<style>
table {font-family:monospace}
th {background-color:black; color:white; text-align:left; colspan:2}
.cx {background-color:silver;font-weight:bold}
</style></head><body style='background-color:gainsboro'><table><tbody>"+record+"</tbody></table></body></html>"
);
        }
    }
}

 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And yet you and a few others here seem to have the exact same problem in that you will fight tooth and claw for things to stay exactly as they are with no further development to make S/L more user friendly for new or older users.

[PekeNL]

Has anybody ever considered that, even while the UI can be clunky for the newer generation, it's the fact that SL is primarily commerce driven, and all the alternatives are pretty much single-buy or even free?

[JeromFranzic]

14 minutes ago, PekeNL said:

Has anybody ever considered that, even while the UI can be clunky for the newer generation, it's the fact that SL is primarily commerce driven, and all the alternatives are pretty much single-buy or even free?

Haha, yup. Maybe that's why I love Open Sim. TBF OS isn't entirely free, but it's much less commercially oriented compared to SL... and just as clunky.

[Solar Legion]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Your post doesn't address my point, copy or no copy. An object rezzed or worn should be listed in the Recent column. In fact if one rezzes an attachment out on the ground and then wears it from there and subsequently removes it from Worn, the attachment remains under the Recent tab, pointing out it is the pathway used that determines whether or not it will be listed there.

-Minor quibble, the Current Outfit must be listed server side because one can go to a different viewer on a different machine and login with the exact same outfit on. That says the server is aware and keeps a record of what is worn.

I addressed it in my response - Rezzed out items do indeed show up and remain in the Recent Tab. Items within Current Folder do not remain because no actual Inventory entries were created, it is a temporary/holding folder.

As for your "quibble": The Server being "aware" is not the same thing as an actual entry being made within your Inventory. The server keeps track of what is presently attached to/worn by your avatar (occasionally glitching on this). This is displayed to you within your Viewer using the temporary folder, Current Outfits.

There is no inconsistency.

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I addressed it in my response - Rezzed out items do indeed show up and remain in the Recent Tab. Items within Current Folder do not remain because no actual Inventory entries were created, it is a temporary/holding folder.

As for your "quibble": The Server being "aware" is not the same thing as an actual entry being made within your Inventory. The server keeps track of what is presently attached to/worn by your avatar (occasionally glitching on this). This is displayed to you within your Viewer using the temporary folder, Current Outfits.

There is no inconsistency.

Items showing within the Current Folder wasn't the issue to begin with, the issue is that it does not get listed in the Recent tab after it is removed like a rezzed item does. A rezzed item gets listed in Recent after it has been taken back into inventory. Both are items rezzed out of inventory, one to the sim and the other rezzed onto the avatar and that is the only difference. Both items should be listed in the Recent tab after they are taken back into inventory, regardless of the permission settings or where they are placed and therein lies the inconsistency

[Solar Legion]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Items showing within the Current Folder wasn't the issue to begin with, the issue is that it does not get listed in the Recent tab after it is removed like a rezzed item does. A rezzed item gets listed in Recent after it has been taken back into inventory. Both are items rezzed out of inventory, one to the sim and the other rezzed onto the avatar and that is the only difference. Both items should be listed in the Recent tab after they are taken back into inventory, regardless of the permission settings or where they are placed and therein lies the inconsistency

There is no issue nor inconsisstency, the Recent Items tab only shows Recently created/acquired Inventory Entries (meaning actual entries made to the Asset Server). No such entry is made when an item/object is flagged as being part of your Current Outfit (attached to/worn by your avatar).

The worn item is not removed in any way shape or form from your Inventory nor is a new one put back in when said item is taken off.

This is not difficult to understand. At all.

Stop. It.

ETA: On further thought ... there is a singular inconsistency: That the Current Outfit folder is at all listed under the Recent tab. There is no reason for a holding folder such as that to show up there unless the idea is to give a user a further place to remove currently worn items. Beyond that, the statement and explanation still stand - the contents of that folder do not actually exist as Inventory entries as far as the Asset system is concerned - no need to list prior entries from it as those are no longer your Current Outfit.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Solar Legion