Difficullt start for new participants?

[Robsfl]

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

[TimKoul]

Is there really no teachable method on how to buy and wear a piece of clothing for new people? It's not so complicated once you get used to it but SL has always had a bit of a hard learning curve. 

[Pixie Kobichenko]

1 hour ago, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

Welcome to Second Life.  It indeed does have a learning curve.  It’s not all that intuitive, I agree.  However youtube is an amazing resource & loads of help available to you, just go searching.  Here’s a newer result, with time stamps to fast forward to topics you have questions about.   I mean,I’ve turned to YouTube for cooking, pet care, fixing several different vehicles, gardening tips & more.  YouTube is an amazingly underutilized resource.

  

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Robsfl said:

This is a small and rather closed community.

The forum itself is a small community.  Second Life is a large community.

Welcome to Second Life!

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

Hello,

Welcome to Second Life forums. 

It is very important for new people to thoroughly go through the initial orientation process when they first create an avatar and enter Second Life the main world via a viewer. There is much to learn, but everything really does start from the very basics.  

We were all newbies, but something kept us all here, and while the forums only represents a very small number of the total Second Life population, you possibly are missing out on so much if you give up so very early on. 

I found when I was new that the first fortnight made me want to scream and pack it all in, but I am glad I persevered. There are a lot of things I do not keep up with though. My avatar is old fashioned compared to a lot, but this doesn't stop me from exploring and enjoying all Second Life has to offer. What I did find very helpful was Youtube video tutorials. I didn't even know about these forums until perhaps two years into my own Second Life. Things started to click into place. 

I don't see this as being a small and rather closed community though at all. We are an eclectic bunch with vastly different opinions and experiences. Some are excellent creators and scriptors or artists, others are explorers, shopaholics, photographers. 

Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way that I walk ... 

 

[Polenth Yue]

Second Life has a bunch of different communities, rather than being a single location chatroom with a single community. It's a sandbox, rather than a game with set goals. That can make getting started a bit slow, but means you can do a lot more once you get the hang of the basics.

It sounds like your main goal is chat rather than making your avatar look nice. Using the search function in the viewer will help find groups to join (groups let you talk to other group members anywhere in Second Life) and places to go. You can also check out this section of the destination guide for newcomer friendly spots: https://secondlife.com/destinations/howto/newbie

The early part of the year is often quieter in Second Life, but the events usually get going as we head into spring.

[Stephanie Misfit]

5 hours ago, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

Well I would not say SL has no future, as it has already been going for 20 years, but I do agree with you on the steep learning curve. I suggest watching some YouTube videos. The SL forums are not that friendly to new people, but they represent a tiny section of the population and SL itself is well worth the investment of time. You can meet some great people and have a lot of really cool experiences. I've stuck with it for over 16 years, it has to have something going for it.

[Ceka Cianci]

7 hours ago, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

You may want to graze the Second Life University channel on youtube to kind of get an idea of how some things work here.. Here is the link for that.  SecondLife University

The forums are more set up for new users to ask their questions, which usually get answered with pretty fast responses.. For the most part the forums are filled with a lot of well experienced members that have been around for years and can usually answer most of the  questions that many new users will be asking.. You might get a sour apple or two sometimes, but for the most part, you'll find many of the answers to the questions you have, in the forums..

As far as the grid or inworld second life itself.. Spending less than a day in it and you'd only be seeing the tip of the tip of the iceberg.. There isn't one big community in second life.. There are thousands upon thousands of wildly different communities on the grid.. There are thousands and thousands of different locations and things to do..

As far as setting up your avatar, there are more ways to do that than you could ever shake a stick at..

If you come into second life with the mindset that you are going into a game  that is user friendly and in 3 years is expected to have an expansion.. It's not that kind of world..

This is more of a do it yourselfer, build your world from the ground up kind of a world of worlds.. There is much more than just skin changes and hitting the ground running..

Coming into second life expecting similar experiences  of one of those games on Steam or Uplay, is like expecting to be playing checkers, when you ended up on a chess board..

There is a big learning curve because  the users build the world not the company that made the grid.. There is so much content and so many different directions that you can go, that it's impossible to make a manual for, let alone try to explain..  This is why we call our start date a born date, because you're gonna have to learn to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run.. 

You have to get a good feel for it to really have an Idea.. You won't get close on your first day..

 

So if you actually have some questions and really want to give it a try, we're more than happy to be here to help you along the best we can.. If you've already gave up.. Well it's not meant for everyone..

 

[Lindal Kidd]

Hi @Robsfl and welcome to Second Life, maybe.

I'm sorry that you aren't able to walk the way you're used to. Me, I've never ever played something where you turn with the right mouse button. But there ARE several different ways to walk, and you can choose the one you like best.

• The movement palette on screen. Click the arrows on it with your mouse. I don't like this one myself, it takes up needless screen space.
• The arrow keys on your keyboard
• Alternatively, you can use the W, A, S, D keys too, and I KNOW a lot of games use that method. (Hit ESC a couple of times first, to be sure the main viewer window "has the focus" and you're not typing chat or IM text instead).
• Put your cursor on your avatar or your name tag, hold down the left mouse button. Use the Up arrow on your keyboard to walk, and steer with your mouse.
• There's a first person view called Mouselook. Roll your scroll wheel forward until your avatar disappears, or hit the M key. Use the Up arrow to move and steer with your mouse.
• In your Preferences (CTRL+P) in the Advanced tab, you can choose to walk to a point that you click on, or teleport there with a double click.

As for appearance...well, you've hit on what is perhaps our weakest spot. Avatar appearance used to be simple...but we also looked pretty bad, too. Over the years, LL added more and more functionality to SL, and the clever Residents figured out ways to use these new functions to make us look better. But in doing so, appearance has become a minefield of different types of content, not all of which play entirely nicely with each other. Appearance can be VERY confusing, unless you are patient and approach it step by step.

Definitely watch the YouTube videos!

EDIT: Hey...you're not the only one who gave up at first. I did too, way back in 2007. But after a few months, I decided to give it another try, and that time, it clicked. I've been here pretty much ever since. Try us again, you might get hooked too. Believe me, your impression of SL as a "closed group" is way off, you just need to find which crack in the wall fits you best. We have tons of resources for newbies. YouTube, the Knowledge Base here on the site, several resident-run newcomers groups and learning areas, and the Answers section of these forums.

In world, try visiting New Resident Island, Firestorm Help Island, and Caledon Oxbridge University. Try NCI (New Citizens, Inc.) and Helping Haven. They all have self-paced tutorials, and live helpers on site, and freebies. Join their groups; you can ask silly noob questions in group chat, and someone will usually have the answer for you.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Lindal Kidd
thought of something to add

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

Starting in SL is an absolutely horrible experience. You have to come in knowing what all of the different avatar types are so you can simply use anything, have to know how to layer parts in a way that makes no sense, and have to learn controls that do not align with normal game and software conventions. Thankfully, the feature known as Bake on Mesh makes this markedly easier since you no longer need special skins and huds to make an avatar work. But it's still absolutely horrible and extremely off-putting for new players. But there really isn't a way to fix the problem without breaking a ton of content, since everything in SL is user made.

[Paul Hexem]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:27 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

Me, I've never ever played something where you turn with the right mouse button.

That's industry standard for MMO's.

This whole thread is a great example of the things we've all been telling LL for decades- stop using odd controls and UI options, it's either laziness or incompetence and it inarguably costs the platform users.

[JetReigns]

46 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

That's industry standard for MMO's.

This whole thread is a great example of the things we've all been telling LL for decades- stop using odd controls and UI options, it's either laziness or incompetence and it inarguably costs the platform users.

I have to agree. I don't understand why they haven't at least changed the default controls to WASD or allowed users to swivel the camera with right-click. That was jarring for me, even way back when I first tried SL as a teen.

There are a lot of things that scare people away from SL, the steep start-up cost (now that mesh bodies and heads are standard), the controls and UI, and if not the absolute lack of people to talk to, then without a doubt the lag. I might have turned to VRchat too, if not for the fact that it doesn't have text chat or what I would consider decent character customization.

Anyway, I empathize. If you (OP) want help from the perspective of someone who's familiar with other games/MMOs, I can try.

 

Edit: BTW I don't know if the people giving the advice to go to the newbie areas have visited those places recently, but they're often full of trolls, so... fair warning.

Edited January 2, 2023 by JetReigns

[cunomar]

Whats intuitive ?

I have no former experience of computers so without help or suggestion this is how my firestorm viewer looks all the time .

https://gyazo.com/63cc4aed09f131e19de1aebfb6609a8c

Sometimes i use the keypads arrow keys but mostly i use the onscreen controls via my laptops touchpad .

[Resi Pfeffer]

55 minutes ago, cunomar said:

I have no former experience of computers so without help or suggestion this is how my firestorm viewer looks all the time .

I would recommend using (keypad) arrows, as it should be faster and more intuitive than clicking buttons/HUDs on a screen.
Additionally you can hold SHIFT while walking left and right to strafe, instead of turning. Camera angle also wont change when SHIFT is pressed.

And even more important in my opinion: You dont necessarily need the cam control HUD either (most convenient when using a external mouse device)
-Hold ALT and klick to where you wanna look at - your cam will turn there. 
-Hold ALT and hold left click, move the mouse back and forth and youll zoom. moving left and right will pan the view.
-Hold ALT + CTRL + hold left click moving back and forth will tilt the cam angle instead of zooming, panning still remains.
 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Resi Pfeffer
typo

[cunomar]

All very good . But you describe possibilities not basics .

If a kid wants lego and you instead provide a learn architecture book .................................

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

All very good . But you describe possibilities not basics .

If a kid wants lego and you instead provide a learn architecture book .................................

Luckily, this isn't a "kid's" game. And, sorry not sorry - but if someone is not intellectually capable of learning the basics of creating INSIDE second life..then I would not miss them here. (That sounds mean, I know.)

[cunomar]

Then i will copy your childish arrogance by sarcastically suggesting that if you can't fit a new clutch to your vehicle then you should be banned from using all motor transport forever .

A 90 year old is a child when they encounter snow for the very first time at the age of 90 . There are many other firsts that don't relate to age .

[Randy Pole]

Second Life has a very steep learning curve. It was a lot easier before the advent of mesh bodies, heads and clothing.

To take the suggestion of how difficult is it to produce a guide on how to wear a new bit of clothing for a new resident.

Well - it's actually pretty darn hard and that's due to the immense amount of variables around what sort of clothing is it, what body is it designed for. Does the resident need to apply any alpha layers and if so is that by a HUD or by wearing an object or system layer. The complications go on and on and on.

It really was easier when everyone had system avatars - ok we did not look all that pretty with hindsight but it was easy to help out a new resident.

Hopefully there may be some glimmer of hope on the horizon with the NUX avatars as I am pretty darn sure LL will make them easy to understand for a total new resident.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Luckily, this isn't a "kid's" game. And, sorry not sorry - but if someone is not intellectually capable of learning the basics of creating INSIDE second life..then I would not miss them here. (That sounds mean, I know.)

I agree and would go further to say that if a programmer/coder does not have the intellectual capability of making their programs user friendly, then they shouldn't be here either. That is after all what programmers are supposed to do, make code in such a way that users are not having to type in a console to make changes.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Arielle Popstar

[Resi Pfeffer]

3 hours ago, cunomar said:

All very good . But you describe possibilities not basics .

How to move and how to cam is one of the most essential basics, as its a 3D world.

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

Then i will copy your childish arrogance by sarcastically suggesting that if you can't fit a new clutch to your vehicle then you should be banned from using all motor transport forever .

A 90 year old is a child when they encounter snow for the very first time at the age of 90 . There are many other firsts that don't relate to age .

You could have chosen to do some progress but you opted for being salty. Its your life

[Resi Pfeffer]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That sounds mean, I know

Nothing wrong with being mean to bitter and ignorant people.

[HeathcliffMontague]

13 hours ago, JetReigns said:

I have to agree. I don't understand why they haven't at least changed the default controls to WASD or allowed users to swivel the camera with right-click. That was jarring for me, even way back when I first tried SL as a teen.

If the deafault was WASD  (which works  just fine in SL) instead of arrow keys that would put off a lot of people too. I can use WASD just fine, but I can also use a stick shift and drive in the UK. (although when driving in SL, I've worn out llots of arrow keys on keyboards, I mean you have to be more precise when driving here and be more alert to the very minute details than in most games than what WASD or mouse action allows for, reason why old school arrow drivers populate the leader boards a lot I guess). To look around, for building or anything else, it's just Alt key plus mouse. Muscle memory can be relarned, but the first stuff sits kinda deep.

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 12/25/2022 at 6:47 PM, TimKoul said:

Is there really no teachable method on how to buy and wear a piece of clothing for new people?

A lot depends on who you're teaching...

 

On 12/25/2022 at 5:44 PM, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

So, you decided to try Second Life on Christmas Eve, then decided to complain about it on the forum on Christmas?

Yeah, sounds like something someone brand new would do.

 

Yeah.

[2Tessa]

SL have been UNFRIENDLY for new users from the very beginning. What you wrote here is a simple truth.

Not recommended if you dislike puzzles and fuzzy engineering.

On 12/25/2022 at 10:44 PM, Robsfl said:

Hi all,

it seems that this forum lacks a place for newbies, which confirms my first impression: This is a small and rather closed community.

I tried to dip into SL to get some experiences. I started out on a pathway (difficult to walk, why no turn on right mouse button?) that gave some first insights which sounds good at first, but it just continued endlessly. At some point it tried to explain how I can customize my avatar but it failed. I could buy some items for free but gained no idea how to wear them or change my appearence.

Finally I deinstalled. If even such a simple task as customizing you avatar is extremely complicated then this has no future and will stay a very small community. Which I regret, I would have like to participate like in VR chat or other platforms.

BR

 

[JeromFranzic]

On 12/25/2022 at 7:43 PM, Polenth Yue said:

Second Life has a bunch of different communities, rather than being a single location chatroom with a single community. It's a sandbox, rather than a game with set goals. That can make getting started a bit slow, but means you can do a lot more once you get the hang of the basics.

It sounds like your main goal is chat rather than making your avatar look nice. Using the search function in the viewer will help find groups to join (groups let you talk to other group members anywhere in Second Life) and places to go. You can also check out this section of the destination guide for newcomer friendly spots: https://secondlife.com/destinations/howto/newbie

The early part of the year is often quieter in Second Life, but the events usually get going as we head into spring.

I do think the sandbox part confuses a lot of users. IMO if one comes from playing RPGs and/or simulator games like The Sims, they'll have an easier time with integrating into SL. I latched on quickly as I do have some background in RPG play time. I quickly picked up on the complex stuff, but still ask for help when I need it. I'm a few months away from being here for two years... heck, I liked it so much that I hooked myself up with two accounts in Open Simulator. LOL