Garnet Psaltery Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Peeve: I saw a video on "the history of Thanksgiving" that said the "Pilgrims" probably brought their "Thanksgiving" harvest feast tradition from Europe, but Google hates me on this one. Basically, Google answers mostly only talk about the US holiday and it's history within the US, and mentions of "yeah, but the Thanksgiving Feast tradition CAME from Europe!!" are harder to find. I've never heard that Thanksgiving came from Europe, and if it came from England we'd have heard about it and would probably still be celebrating it. Harvest Festivals as such are common but are celebrated in September or October, after the harvest. Thanksgiving is just too late in the year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: I've never heard that Thanksgiving came from Europe, and if it came from England we'd have heard about it and would probably still be celebrating it. Harvest Festivals as such are common but are celebrated in September or October, after the harvest. Thanksgiving is just too late in the year. Found one reference that mentions the Puritans and origins.. "Thanksgiving is a combination of Puritan religious practices and the European harvest festival, which now includes Native foods." https://americanindian.si.edu/sites/1/files/pdf/education/NMAI_Harvest_Study_Guide.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: Peeve: I saw a video on "the history of Thanksgiving" that said the "Pilgrims" probably brought their "Thanksgiving" harvest feast tradition from Europe, but Google hates me on this one. Basically, Google answers mostly only talk about the US holiday and it's history within the US, and mentions of "yeah, but the Thanksgiving Feast tradition CAME from Europe!!" are harder to find. In parts of Germany there is a Erntedankfest in early October. In Belgium and The Netherlands are local harvest feast traditions too, but each has its own date on the calendar. I don't really know its history, but that might be the festivities that Americanized into Thanksgiving. Just like Sinterklaas (Sankt Nikolaus) and der Weinachtsmann mixed with a dash of Father Christmas and six dashes of Coca Cola became Santa Claus. Edited November 20, 2023 by Sid Nagy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: I don't really know its history, but that might be the festivities that Americanized into Thanksgiving. Europeans got rid of a lot of holidays in the aftermath of the reformation, in England it went from 95 to 27 in 1536 (plus the 52 Sundays, which of course remained). As a somewhat unfortunate side-effect that meant 68 more work days per year (which is largely the basis of the statement that people today work a lot harder than medieval peasants - church-going was also very different back then, many of the celebrations included feasting and people were served beer; of course back then beer was considered a 'gift from God', but apparently he must have had a change of heart?). Giving thanks at the end of the harvest season absolutely was (and to some extent, still is) a concept that's being observed, but it varies from place to place. It's pretty interesting though, that the Puritans in Europe wanted to get rid of all the holidays (minus Sundays, of course) - and then they go over yonder and a few centuries later there's now a feast that nearly rivals Christmas in its excess. .. Must be Capitalism, or something. Shrugs. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Orwar said: It's pretty interesting though, that the Puritans in Europe wanted to get rid of all the holidays (minus Sundays, of course) - and then they go over yonder and a few centuries later there's now a feast that nearly rivals Christmas in its excess. I also learned in the same video about US Thanksgiving feast foods, that at the time of the "Pilgrim's first Thanksgiving", the birds we call "Turkeys" had already been in Europe for quite awhile, having been brought back from Mexico by the Spanish Conquistadores. Did not know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, Orwar said: It's pretty interesting though, that the Puritans in Europe wanted to get rid of all the holidays (minus Sundays, of course) - and then they go over yonder and a few centuries later there's now a feast that nearly rivals Christmas in its excess. Which reminds us to look at American history and see how few of our ancestors were Puritans. They were a minority even in colonial days. 🦃 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: Which reminds us to look at American history and see how few of our ancestors were Puritans. They were a minority even in colonial days. 🦃 I'm reminded that my Grandmother and Great Aunt on one side would say how they / we were descended from some who came on the Mayflower, and point proudly to their framed "Mayflower Society" certificates. Now my thought on that is.."so what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I'm reminded that my Grandmother and Great Aunt on one side would say how they / we were descended from some who came on the Mayflower, and point proudly to their framed "Mayflower Society" certificates. Now my thought on that is.."so what?" Some people are more interested in maintaining a connection to their ancestors than others are. It only takes one generation for family history to disappear, so I imagine you could make a case that the answer to "So what?" is "So, maybe my grandchildren will want to know." Personally, I don't find myself bragging about what long-dead family members may have done (especially if they just managed to be in the right place at the right time). Still, it's interesting history. I don't want to be the last person in the family who knows. It's kind of like not being the one to mess up a chain letter, I guess. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 50 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: Some people are more interested in maintaining a connection to their ancestors than others are. It only takes one generation for family history to disappear, so I imagine you could make a case that the answer to "So what?" is "So, maybe my grandchildren will want to know." Personally, I don't find myself bragging about what long-dead family members may have done (especially if they just managed to be in the right place at the right time). Still, it's interesting history. I don't want to be the last person in the family who knows. It's kind of like not being the one to mess up a chain letter, I guess. Yes, but I won't have any children or grandchildren. My only sibling's child is adopted. None of my cousins on that side had kids so...it will be up to any "extended" family (second cousins and beyond). My stepmom gave all my dad's family research to appropriate libraries in the US and England so..any future generations (if there are any) will find the info (through many, many avenues). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: I thought we were all Maddy's alts. How am I supposed to keep track of who I am. @Rowan Amore are you really Maddy's alt? Peeve: I don't know who I am. Silly! You're not Maddy's Alt, you're MY alt, and I'm Rowan's Alt. Hope that clears things up! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc DeSantis Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said: Some people are more interested in maintaining a connection to their ancestors than others are. It only takes one generation for family history to disappear, so I imagine you could make a case that the answer to "So what?" is "So, maybe my grandchildren will want to know." Personally, I don't find myself bragging about what long-dead family members may have done (especially if they just managed to be in the right place at the right time). Still, it's interesting history. I don't want to be the last person in the family who knows. It's kind of like not being the one to mess up a chain letter, I guess. On family 'roots' always fun so... On behalf of all us happy mongrels who happened to have been born English - I apologise to the rest of the World. Having only arrived circa 1184 (Gran said it was 81 but well you know) with named records from 1220 ish. Family oral rubbish puts as as coming from Belgium - quite a feat as Belgium would not exist til 1831 ish. Oh we have a family coat of arms but, a la Famille Nobby Nobbs, we probably nicked it. Besides, he was a Labour Lord also distaff. Peeve - none really I just thought might be fun although in Quebec we celebrated Action de Grace - as that was when the Beaj Nouveau arrived. OK that is my peeve =^^= - I can't get it here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Yes, but I won't have any children or grandchildren. My only sibling's child is adopted. None of my cousins on that side had kids so...it will be up to any "extended" family (second cousins and beyond). My stepmom gave all my dad's family research to appropriate libraries in the US and England so..any future generations (if there are any) will find the info (through many, many avenues). I'm very skeptical about afterlife, but I do believe that we are somehow "alive" as long as someone remembers us. Family members are most likely to remember, but if your dad's research is somewhere that other people can find it, that counts. It doesn't take long for our silly campfire stories about Weird Uncle Fred and Grandma Jones to fade away (unless they were famous authors or despots), but even a few old photos and their names keep them alive. As Miracle Max said, "There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." Edited November 20, 2023 by Rolig Loon typos. as always. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Found one reference that mentions the Puritans and origins Ok... "Thanksgiving". The Pilgrim's were religous maniacs, 30 odd wealthy land owning country squires, who fled "persecution" in Merry Olde England, Pilgrims : "We're friends of the Big Guy in the Sky, and he wants us to run the country" Everyone Else : "Oh HELL NO!" Pilgrims : "Help! Help! We're being oppressed!" So they sold their estates, and tried convincing the estate workers and servants to come with them to a "Brave New World" Estate Workers : "Oh HELL NO! We'll stay here and work for the NEW owners." So then they BOUGHT indentured slaves from the debtor's prisons, mostly Irish and Scots, who certainly didn't pray the same way, and sodded off to "Frozen crudhole covered in pine trees land", and set up camp But they didn't take enough food to see them through the winter, and knew nothing about hunting in the wilderness, and they almost died, and the slaves almost revolted due to the Pilgrims hoarding all the food and hunting weapons. Things looked GRIM. But then... "Hi! I'm Paints-His-Bottom-Red, and this is my wife, Smells-Like-A-Buffalo, we thought we'd welcome you to the neighbourhood with a traditional back yard bring-your-own-food party. We brought Pumpkin Surprise! Hmm your kids look a bit thin, how's the hunting? Wait, you're hunting with those Thunder Sticks, no wonder all the game's scared off, look, see that? That's a Turrkey, there's good eating on one of those, and they are even dumber than you Palefaces, so you should be able to catch some." And the Pilgrims did rejoice, and hunted the turkey, and gave Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Silly! You're not Maddy's Alt, you're MY alt, and I'm Rowan's Alt. Hope that clears things up! Oh, then is Rowan Maddy's alt? Who is the original account if we're all just spin-offs? It makes perfect sense, though. Of course, that's something only your alt would say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: Who is the original account if we're all just spin-offs? Probably Scylla... But we alts don't get told these things. Edited November 20, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 43 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: Oh, then is Rowan Maddy's alt? Who is the original account if we're all just spin-offs? It makes perfect sense, though. Of course, that's something only your alt would say. Maybe @Snugs McMasters is the original..? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 57 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: I'm very skeptical about afterlife, but I do believe that we are somehow "alive" as long as someone remembers us. Family members are most likely to remember, but if your dad's research is somewhere that other people can find it, that counts. It doesn't take long for our silly campfire stories about Weird Uncle Fred and Grandma Jones to fade away (unless they were famous authors or despots), but even a few old photos and their names keep them alive. As Miracle Max said, "There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive." Peeve: There is so much irony in this type of discussion! Suffice to say, we may "owe" something to a future generation, but we as individuals have little to no control of things such as what happens to our remains (are they placed somewhere in perpetuity with records), whether we have progeny, or even a life we wish to have remembered or forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Peeve: I need to increase my "forum crush" list from 3 to 4. So many good looking, unique, and sweet people in the photo threads its hard to keep up with them all. *fans self* I don't suppose I should name them, but they are MY forum crushes, so no one is interested anyway. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: Peeve: I need to increase my "forum crush" list from 3 to 4. So many good looking, unique, and sweet people in the photo threads its hard to keep up with them all. *fans self* I don't suppose I should name them, but they are MY forum crushes, so no one is interested anyway. A bunch of guys and/or gals WISH it were them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Peeve: Just checked VS for the first time. The post about Bagnu was pretty silly. I went over there for the first time myself.. I can't believe the way grownups act over there..It reminds me of middle school drama.. High school wasn't even that bad.. hehehe 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 9 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: Peeve: people increasing page visits to sites like VS. I looked once 8 or 10 years ago and refuse to give them a single page hit. I'll have to pay more attention to who keeps bringing it up here in the forums each time it re-emerges to figure out who is behind tempting others to look at the train wreck. It may be flawed logic, but whoever brings it up probably has something to do with it and wants to direct people there. Otherwise no one would even know about it. A page like that only works if people go to look which only happens if you direct people to it. That place is like a beauty parlor.. The only way a place like that works is if you acknowledge it as anything other that childish.. I looked over there and it instantly reminded me of the club drama that I used to have to deal with, with dancers getting carried away and emotional about the silliest crap.. That place is the perfect example of First World Problems.. Anyone ever comes at me with some silly stuff ever said about me on there and they are serious. I'm blocking them just because they took whatever it was serious.. lol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Probably Scylla... But we alts don't get told these things. LIES!! LIES!! (Which is of course exactly what you'd expect me to say if it were true, no?) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 46 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: Peeve: I need to increase my "forum crush" list from 3 to 4. So many good looking, unique, and sweet people in the photo threads its hard to keep up with them all. *fans self* I don't suppose I should name them, but they are MY forum crushes, so no one is interested anyway. We've had in the past -- as I'm sure you'll remember -- threads on "forum crushes" or "favourite poster." They never end well. 😕 And people did NOT appreciate it when I chose myself in both categories. Yeesh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Maybe @Snugs McMasters is the original..? If we were really all Snugs, who is a practiced Absurdist, she'd be having us doing and saying absolutely insanely silly and stupid things all the time. Oh. Hang on. Wait a moment . . . 🤔 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: We've had in the past -- as I'm sure you'll remember -- threads on "forum crushes" or "favourite poster." Well, now we know what topic to pick when we want to kick off a good Friday thread .. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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