NUX Avatar

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Patch Linden said:

I am going to vehemently disagree with you.   This project is about control of the new user experience.   Allowing for total and free control on content in a dismally confusing system of choices and options that can either hurt or destroy the user experience is not one we will promote.   We want to protect an untrained user from the pitfalls as such.  Full stop.

This limits the appeal of Senra (and SL) for new creators specifically, discouraging a class of new residents that has always found SL appealing, while doing no favors at all to those uninterested in such modification.

I'm quite sure it's a strategic mistake, one you're uniquely positioned to make. And something about which I'm certain we'll simply disagree.

[Conifer Dada]

30 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This limits the appeal of Senra (and SL) for new creators specifically, discouraging a class of new residents that has always found SL appealing, while doing no favors at all to those uninterested in such modification.

I'm quite sure it's a strategic mistake, one you're uniquely positioned to make. And something about which I'm certain we'll simply disagree.

I think the whole NUX thing is a good idea and just what SL needs. Unfortunately my first impressions of the new Jamie body and head, as found in Library while on Beta Grid, are disappointing, but concept is good.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Conifer Dada

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Free idea for LL.  Add in a free walking/standing pose AO system to these NUX/Senra avatars.  

Edited July 21, 2023 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Gabriele Graves]

2 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Free idea for LL.  Add in a free walking/standing pose AO system to these NUX/Sanra avatars.  

It already has one.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

This limits the appeal of Senra (and SL) for new creators specifically, discouraging a class of new residents that has always found SL appealing, while doing no favors at all to those uninterested in such modification.

I'm quite sure it's a strategic mistake, one you're uniquely positioned to make. And something about which I'm certain we'll simply disagree.

I agree, The new user experience experiment, shouldn't just be just about being able to get dressed and go, as if the new user experience wall that was being hit was just the avatar and clothing and accessories..

It should be deeper than the tip of the iceburg.. The avatar and clothing and accessories are just the surface of the new user experience..

I just hope that the New User Experience Dev Kits are available to everyone, especially new and inspired creators..

I remember a time when I knew more creators than shoppers, because it seemed more came here because it was a world of creativity rather than a barbies play house shopping mall.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Qie Niangao]

16 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

I think the whole NUX thing is a good idea and just what SL needs. Unfortunately my first impressions of the new Jamie body and head, as found in Library while on Beta Grid, are disappointing, but concept is good.

Oh, I agree with that, no doubt. I do think, though, that the risk of a newbie hurting themselves retinting or renaming a mesh clothing item is pretty remote, whereas there will surely be some new arrivals who'll want to try that, and I think I see a real risk of frustrating such early exploratory instincts in the very population best retained in SL.

There's a broader question of what no-mod content belongs anywhere in the Library, but sticking to Senra… I find it pretty hard to see the point—unless the dev kit includes a fully permissive copy of all this stuff, textures and all—but even if a curious newbie can score a dev kit for the asking, that seems a much steeper climb than just being able to on a whim edit and tint a pair of Senra sweatpants to match a favored Senra eye color.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

This limits the appeal of Senra (and SL) for new creators specifically, discouraging a class of new residents that has always found SL appealing, while doing no favors at all to those uninterested in such modification.

I'm quite sure it's a strategic mistake, one you're uniquely positioned to make. And something about which I'm certain we'll simply disagree.

Although I'm as pro-mod as anyone, there's a difference between "Things should be modifiable" and "NO MOD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

With an alpha file, if you don't have the textures to make the sections there's very little you can do with it other than breaking it, and if you do have the textures it's simple enough to just make a new one.

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Although I'm as pro-mod as anyone, there's a difference between "Things should be modifiable" and "NO MOD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

With an alpha file, if you don't have the textures to make the sections there's very little you can do with it other than breaking it, and if you do have the textures it's simple enough to just make a new one.

Agreed. That was sloppy of me. In some later post I think I made clear that I meant the texture should be included fullperm because what is the IP value of an alpha mask texture anyway??

[EDIT: Oops, you were quoting a later post than I thought, where I wasn't specifically thinking of alpha-masks. Anyway, this was the post where I tried to clarify that point.]

Edited July 21, 2023 by Qie Niangao

[Drayke Newall]

12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I just hope that the New User Experience Dev Kits are available to everyone, especially new and inspired creators.

Likewise. What is worrying though is Patch's response that there is an 'application process' that will be made public 'imminently' to obtain the Dev Kits. Why is an application process needed at all? Why not just release the files for everyone like they have in the past with no application needed. I.E. on the wiki to download.

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

I am going to vehemently disagree with you.   This project is about control of the new user experience.   Allowing for total and free control on content in a dismally confusing system of choices and options that can either hurt or destroy the user experience is not one we will promote.   We want to protect an untrained user from the pitfalls as such.  Full stop.

Then you need to fix the entire UI and the learning experience. Unchecking a single box while leaving all the apparently confusing options in place but broken isn't going to help anything.

All you're doing is stifling the power users, not making it any easier for people to understand what they're seeing.

It's the perfect example of the sarcastic comment I made earlier- LL does a job as lazily as possible then goes and celebrates like something huge was accomplished.

You can't uncheck a single box and say "There we go, new users won't be confused anymore!"

Edited July 21, 2023 by Paul Hexem

[Gabriele Graves]

I have to admit, I nearly spat out my coffee at:

"a dismally confusing system of choices and options"

 

[AmeliaJ08]

4 hours ago, rasterscan said:

A good looking starter avatar straight out the box is an essential for new user retention imho. Then, when seeing other 'identical twin' avatars, they're going to want to go clothes shopping as fast as they can, rather than drown in issues of alphas and fixing their avvies

And for this reason I really wish LL would implement some rules as far as vendors go. I hadn't really thought about it for years but trying to teach a new user how to buy and unpack things... good lord. The sheer variety of ways a product can be delivered, I was guiding someone recently and this was a major snagging point.

The gold standard, #1 way of delivering a product in my opinion is to give the user an unpacked folder. Please, please creators... we got through it eventually but the rarity of the nice unpacked folder is a truly sad thing and every other method seems over complicated and destined to make inventory issues for new users.

I hope every single piece of NUX clothing is delivered to our lovely noobies unpacked in a folder with a sensible name.

Edited July 21, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Likewise. What is worrying though is Patch's response that there is an 'application process' that will be made public 'imminently' to obtain the Dev Kits. Why is an application process needed at all? Why not just release the files for everyone like they have in the past with no application needed. I.E. on the wiki to download.

It would be nice if it were to where we could just access them on our own from the wiki or the inventory.. Pretty much anything else has been put in those places..

I sure hope it's not having to show prior work or something silly like that.. Those Dev Kits should be part of the New User experience.. That which is including those new users that come here to create or come here learn to create..

I had hopes that the New User Experience was more than just about getting someone into a mesh avatar and out the door into the world..

This has so much more potential to reach other new users than just that.. Mainly because there is a creation wall being hit that has been being built up over the years, removing viable creativity from the regular SL users New and old..

It's becoming more and more that we have the businesses on one side and then the population on the other, rather than a mixing bowl of both..

I would have almost banked on them giving the Dev Kits to everyone back in October.. But the closer the NUX gets, the less I'm feeling that..

 

I guess really, it's best to wait and see what really ends up happening when it all comes out in the wash..

I'm just kind of going by what vibes I'm getting at the moment.. Hopefully it's just  me needing another cup of tea, this early in the morning.. hehehe

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

36 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Likewise. What is worrying though is Patch's response that there is an 'application process' that will be made public 'imminently' to obtain the Dev Kits. Why is an application process needed at all? Why not just release the files for everyone like they have in the past with no application needed. I.E. on the wiki to download.

Because this wouldn't be an application that would only be usable in Second Life and therefore creates different intellectual property issues.

[steeljane42]

2 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

And for this reason I really wish LL would implement some sorts of rules as far as vendors go. I hadn't really thought about it for years but trying to teach a new user how to buy and unpack things... good lord. The sheer variety of ways a product can be delivered...

The gold standard, #1 way of delivering a product in my opinion is to give the user an unpacked folder.

With so many bodies/sizes around the unpacked folder is a nightmare for new users, and not just a new ones. One of my recent purchases had over 240 items in its demo folder for the top alone, another 100+ for the bottom.

LL really shouldn't implement any of such rules, because it's really up to creators how they want to sell and present their products. But if they are going to suggest/nudge creators, I think the unpacker HUD that allows a user to select the desired body size(s) in case if it's clothing and just unpacker HUDs if it's not clothing are the best. Easier to keep the backups that way, too.

[Drayke Newall]

9 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Because this wouldn't be an application that would only be usable in Second Life and therefore creates different intellectual property issues.

To be honest, not sure what you mean.

LL in the past have released all their content relating to their bodies to the wiki with no application process. You can go to their wiki now and download all the bento skeletons, system avatar meshes, etc.

There is zero reason as to why Linden Lab should have an application process to download if all their previous content has been free to download before. Now if the application process is as simple as agreeing to user agreement to not distribute outside of SL then fine, though no person would call that an application process.

If, however, it is giving examples of past experience of work or as mesh body creators now have it in that you have to have a store first, then that is a serious problem as you are gimping the content creation process for new content of the body and limiting the potential creators of clothing for the body on an already narrowing creator interest.

Previously it was stated by lindens that the dev kit would be available to everyone. The notion that there is an application process however goes against that as, the definition of an 'application process' means a person can be rejected.

Hopefully, it is just bad wording and such a process is just agreeing to contracts, though the more that is coming out about this body the more worrying it gets that content for it will be limited.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Drayke Newall said:

To be honest, not sure what you mean.

LL in the past have released all their content relating to their bodies to the wiki with no application process. You can go to their wiki now and download all the bento skeletons, system avatar meshes, etc.

 

Try selling the default Second Life avatar mesh on Turbosquid and see how many buyers you get.

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Try selling the default Second Life avatar mesh on Turbosquid and see how many buyers you get.

Is the issue that Linden Research has an interest in not seeing Senra modelled items in other games, as plastic bobblehead figurines, and whatever else people make from public domain models? I mean, that may be a defensible position, I'm just not sure that's the assertion. (And if it is, I'm not really sure the Lab has any less to gain by opensourcing the avatars than it had by opensourcing the viewer. Is having proprietary avatar IP a competitive advantage for LL's business? I'd need that explained to me like I was a five year old—or a board member, same thing.)

[Drayke Newall]

27 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Try selling the default Second Life avatar mesh on Turbosquid and see how many buyers you get.

That wouldn't need an 'application process' to alleviate. It would simply require ticking a box saying you agree to not sell it elsewhere. You know, just like every other 3D platform has as well such as Daz3D and indeed turbosquid itself.

Also, why would LL worry about that when they open source everything? It is that very same open sourcing that created viewers that would make any 'application process' to protect their new Avatar IP worthless.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[xDancingStarx]

38 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

There is zero reason as to why Linden Lab should have an application process to download

Please correct me if I'm wrong but with the dev kit you would be able to upload the body by yourself and re-distribute it (maybe you modify it a little.) Maybe that's what needs to be prevented in order to not have 100 different variations of the same body around that are incompatible between another.

[Drayke Newall]

8 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but with the dev kit you would be able to upload the body by yourself and re-distribute it (maybe you modify it a little.) Maybe that's what needs to be prevented in order to not have 100 different variations of the same body around that are incompatible between another.

If that was the case then why should Linden Lab even bother getting all users to sign a ToS when starting the viewer for the first time or upon sign-up. The ToS has clauses in there to prevent just that as does their content policy and marketplace listing policy.

[Marianne Little]

Giving NUX Jamie some love.

Skins and makeup is really going to make the face here. I wish Gala Phoenix would come back. Does anybody know her, I do not know why she left SL. I remember some drama with another store. Maybe she can come back? This skin was really lovely. It is also the first skin I found that was really clean, no smudge of lashes or drawn on hard eyeliners.

The makeup base eyeshadow is from Ottilie and made for Lelutka Evo, not Evo X of course. But newer Ottilie has only Evo X in the packs. Still, it is a quality much higher than my older eyeshadows, that has not aged well. They are all too exaggerated and hard in my opinion. The lips are from [MOCK] and still available on the marketplace.

The liner is the most delicate I found and from Alaskametro. She has retired so much makeup. Maybe creators who has the uploads, could place them back on the marketplace. It would be no cost if they haven't trashed the textures. 

COCO is the same problem... I have the old system body clothes, but they can't be found in the store. Of the clothes, only the shoes is available. I think. It is not easy to remember and I can't see what's in the store from the test grid.

COCO and Zaara was my favorites, if they have not had a massive cleanout of their inventory, maybe they could be persuaded to set out some of the sets?

This hair and hairbase is included with the NUX Jamie, and I can't find a negative word to say about it. The hairs are not bad, I found a few others too that I like. The eyes could be better, but it is so many free and cheap eyes, so they can be replaced without problems.

After all this talk... If we can find such quality skin and system clothes today, I would be happy to recommend NUX to all.

Jaime has another good thing that I noticed now, it is no protruding nipples and cameltoe that will ruin the look of system clothes. In my opinion, that is good.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

That wouldn't need an 'application process' to alleviate. It would simply require ticking a box saying you agree to not sell it elsewhere. You know, just like every other 3D platform has as well such as Daz3D and indeed turbosquid itself.

Without an application process, how would they know who ticked the box?

[Theresa Tennyson]

Gradually moving from, "Trying to have it look human" to "Trying to have it look like a specific type of human"...

Edited July 21, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[Theresa Tennyson]

(I fail at editing posts from time to time...)

Edited July 21, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson