what will it take for LL to actually do something

[Gwin LeShelle]

I strongly believe the only reason they don't get involved is money, they would have to hire a whole lot people that would actually need to to REALLY work on those ARs. I filed only a few over the years and I believe no one even looks at them. Early they DID ban people and harassers, those were the days where more people were working in the Lab and Philip was still there.

I reported a 0 second orb from my neighbor for example when I was living still in my beautiful stilt home ..friends reported it also and people paddling by get ejected did...4 months nothing happened. I left my beautiful home, to find a new place.

If it does not contain a few certain trigger words it goes right to the trash. Is my believe now. and that's sad,because back in the day Linden Lab actually cared for it's residents.

And this policy will come back at them one day, the EU for example has such strict laws about such online things now I bet they could get in trouble for this non service there one day. And well it's the reason people leave.

The one getting harassed shouldn't be the one that needs to make a new av and hide and live in fear, that's just wrong on so many levels.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Gwin LeShelle

[Love Zhaoying]

I wish this thread had been posted as a "question", because it is an excellent example where "upvotes" and "downvotes" would be helpful, due to conflicting answers which have been provided. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wish this thread had been posted as a "question", because it is an excellent example where "upvotes" and "downvotes" would be helpful, due to conflicting answers which have been provided. 

There's no one-size-fits-all answer here, Love. There are too many variables. Options in that sort of a situation are a good thing.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There's no one-size-fits-all answer here, Love. There are too many variables. Options in that sort of a situation are a good thing.

I don't disagree, but: in the case of conflicting answers: do "a" vs. no, don't do "a" - those two example answers cannot both not be correct in all situations. Taking into account what we know, what we don't know, etc.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Orwar]

   It's pretty hard to confirm whether LL took action, or if the culprit had a heart attack and were thus hindered from continuing, but there's been occasions where I've ARed people who never showed up again. Since LL explicitly tell you that they won't tell you anything about what they decide to do, you end up with a Schrödinger's Griefer/Abuser situation .. Or is it a Reversed Schrödinger's situation. Hm. It's too early in the morning for being so allegorical. Saunters off to make some tea.

[Anicha Heartsong]

Call the police? I've been threatened in RL by an RL person whose name and address I could provide to the police but they still did nothing. They are too busy, don't care, don't have the time (I'm in the UK, so your mileage may vary). I can't imagine the RL police even opening a report on this. You were threatened in a game? They will laugh at you, but probably not to your face.

Now, if someone actually hurts you in RL, you might get somewhere. Bit late by then of course.

My only advice is to never tell anyone anything about your RL details. In a world of social media, even the tiniest morsels of information act like breadcrumbs. I once had a good friend ask me the name of my RL dog. I nearly told him, but apologised and said 'no'. If someone knows roughly where you live (country, region) and just a bit of info like that, maybe breed of dog as well, they might easily find a photo of you on Insta or Fakebook or the like, and you may not even know the picture exists. Could be taken and posted by friends or neighbours.

I agree with the advice to blank them relentlessly until they get bored, grow up or die.

Another option is to hunt down their RL identity, just in case. But that might be against TOS.

[Paulsian]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

LL almost never gets involved in what it calls "disputes between residents," which is I am sure what they consider this. My sense is that the harassment has to be pretty sustained and pretty serious for them to take action -- and it helps, probably, if it involves something like racism (although not necessarily).

I think it was last year kind of a blur to me (I try to not remember), but yah someone once showed up at my house and put something very unusual in my mailbox, I was already freaked because of the SL situation I was going through. Very simple content local police office's non emergency line, speak to a detective about your situation, which will generate a police report that way if something does happen the police have a lead to go on. My situation sounded so stupid but my concern was taken seriously. 

[Paulsian]

7 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Create new accounts yourselves & don’t reveal them.  Be your own advocate.  

That's great advise and do not hang out in the same places. They will be able to identify you by the way you communicate. I never changed my sl behavior, I carried on same name same places less conversation and interaction. I don't have friends list cause never know who is on the other side of that avatar just waiting to see when you (meaning I) logs in. (which needs to be fixed) There needs to option for users to appear offline. There's likely ways people can know when and where you are without even being a friend. So that would need to be looked into. Wonders how many creeps are out there right now whom have a room full of avi photos with their online status and location up on their walls just waiting to pounce for pleasure. If LL wants to fix major privacy issue they can start there. 

You get the creep users with more than one account whom play the stalk card and also from another account play the hero. "I can't believe that happened, come stay in our private community we'll keep you safe" style business model. 

To me it's kind of strange no knowing if while speaking to 5 people how many of them are the same person? I filed a jira that if one account get blocked all the associated accounts including all alts get blocked. They can do it when LL wants to block a user, I've had all my accounts at one time banned few times. To me appears takes LL some effort. They should be able to do that with ease and so should residents. 

And then we have the argument I blocked someone I can't see them or see what they are writing about me but they can see me? I'm not really sure how the blocking works with all viewers. That seems funky, because I could block someone who's putting adult objects on their avatar in a G rated area, not sure if that person is going to try to put something that's on their avatar to appear to be on my avatar without me knowing about it and then abuse reporting me. I hear that concern from a lot of in world residents every time it's brought up. 

And another concern is when a savvy person is blocked is there a way they can know they have been blocked. Maybe a notice when attempting to communicate. You may not contact this person you have been blocked. In a way not knowing if that is a good idea to give that blocked person knowledge that they have been blocked so they can go to what ever the next plan for whatever agenda they have. Or if having Governance respond. This user has blocked you, please do not attempt to reach out to them via this or any other account or method. yahdayahda 

I should not be crying at 7 am on a friday because of this but it's very upsetting. Try to fix it LL please. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Paulsian
after thoughts* make them stop!!

[Love Zhaoying]

"Threats" may by just that ("just threats"). 

However, I saw a neighbor get SWATted once, and it was pretty scary.  So to me, I would suggest keeping your personal information (address, etc.) from internet trolls.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Paulsian said:

They will be able to identify you by the way you communicate

Not always. Someone keeps accusing me of being someone I am not, of saying and doing things I haven't. And even though I've had them blocked for a couple of years now, they still try to accuse me and attack me for it.

 

@Keesie Pelous

I recommend contacting the Information Security Manager at LL. Soft.

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Bree Giffen]

Maybe your friend should buy a gun and go to the range. They won’t need to rely on the police or LL for safety.

[Keesie Pelous]

9 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I fully expect to be griefed by him again. And I full expect LL to do nothing, once again.

I suspect it comes down to resources, on the one hand, and an unwillingness to get too involved in "residential disputes," even when those are unquestionably harassment.

and thats the problem.  you shouldnt have to expect to be griefed and you shouldnt have to expect them to do nothing.  im all for them staying out of "disputes" but they have a responsibility to enforce their "we won't tolerate harassment" stand. 

[Keesie Pelous]

9 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

It does adress your question, but you mean you don't like the answer.
Next to it, not saying it's not a bad thing, but you speak for somebody else. You do nót know what your partner did. We seen enough of these kind of complaints during the years, knowing that partners often hide some very important details in those situations. I can't imagine calls like this have no pre history of disputes or fights.

if the question is "why doesnt LL enforce their rule of not tolerating harassment", how exactly do you think "call the police" addresses the question?  oh!  it doesn't.  what your suggesting is literally the same as if someone said they needed a hair cut and you told them cutting their toe nails would accomplish the same thing.
and if you can't imagine there are people on SL who do nothing but go around trying to cause problems, i'd have to figure you were new to SL.  my SL partner was hosting in a club and I was there with her.  some dude ive never had an interaction with before IMed me and started running his mouth.  He didn't like my response so he IMed my partner and started running his mouth to her.  the same dude went back to the club several hours later and ran his mouth to another hostess and a club manager.  he ended up getting banned from the club and all 4 of us sent an abuse report to LL.  3 days later the dude is back in all of our IMs.  now you're certainly free to imagine anything you want but just keep in mind, what you imagine isnt necessarily reality

[Keesie Pelous]

9 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

If you know the threat isn't credible, then use the same tools we all have access to - block him, and ban him from your land (if applicable). Not much else you can do, since you've already sent AR.

the point here is LL has a rule stating they will not tolerate harassment.  They have a means of reporting harassment.  so if they aren't actually going to do anything, why do either of those things?  people spend a lot of real world money on SL and if LL isn't actually going to enforce their own rules, they at least owe the people on SL a straight answer instead of pretending they won't tolerate something.  its funny, i have a friend on SL who made clothes and he made a shirt with RW design of a popular rock band on it and his account was banned immediately.  but it seems people report threats of violence and LL sits around with their thumbs up their butts.  the moral of the story here seems to be that unless LL could be sued for allowing something, they just don't care and thats a shame.  it explains why there are so many complaints about douchebags on SL.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

37 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Maybe your friend should buy a gun and go to the range. They won’t need to rely on the police or LL for safety.

In general I agree with Bree on this. But I need to point out a possible problem with self defense. If your stalker SWATs you (reports you as a drug dealer to the authorities) you can wake up to the sound of the police executing a "no knock" warrant and breaking in your door. You grab your gun, and suddenly you're in a shootout with the cops.

You're entitled to defend yourself, but make darn sure of your targets.

As for SL stalkers: block the annoying ones, keep tabs on the ones threatening RL action. If you get ANY harassment in addition to just in SL, contact the FBI (in the US, the FBI is the law enforcement agency charged with handling interstate crimes) and/or your local police.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

3 hours ago, Paulsian said:

There needs to option for users to appear offline. There's likely ways people can know when and where you are without even being a friend.

Yes, you can tick your profile to appear offline, but you will still show up in a group member listing if the owner has it displayed.  There’s also (or was) scripts you can drop in a prim to light up when Joe Schmo logs on or off. They can also send off lines in local chat like a nanny state. How do I know?  About 10 years ago I watched a couple stalk each other via various means.  (My advice to each was just leave the other alone & move on- I finally had to avoid them myself). So far as where you are on the grid, yeup there’s scripts forthat, but it will be in something your stalker gave you.something you dropped in world or wearing. I think even if you pick it up into inventory it still functions.

When I was fairly new I had a stalker I blocked who continued to bug me even after I stopped “talking to their master”. For a few months this avi would try to get my attention by slowly paying me a linden at a time.  This was back when camping & money trees were still a thing & I had yet to purchase lindens myself, so it was actually pretty fun to see my balance creep up over the days.  Just kept getting the little notification “insane person paid you $1L”.  They were convinced I was someone else (they probably harassed that person to).  I kept blocking each new avi they created- like twitter bots- Jane123, Jane1234, Jane12345, but they kept paying me.  Finally they moved on & the  money tree shriveled up.

The point of my long winded “back in Saint Olaf” story is that crazy, obsessed, & angry people will find a way.  Again, be you own advocate (aimed at OP).  

[Silent Mistwalker]

56 minutes ago, Keesie Pelous said:

3 days later the dude is back in all of our IMs. 

Sounds like he got a 3 day suspension for harassment.

[belindacarson]

Unless they're stupid enough to have shared RL details why not just ignore/mute them rather than run the gauntlet of the self appointed keyboard warriors of the forums? 🤔

[Ceka Cianci]

51 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

In general I agree with Bree on this. But I need to point out a possible problem with self defense. If your stalker SWATs you (reports you as a drug dealer to the authorities) you can wake up to the sound of the police executing a "no knock" warrant and breaking in your door. You grab your gun, and suddenly you're in a shootout with the cops.

You're entitled to defend yourself, but make darn sure of your targets.

As for SL stalkers: block the annoying ones, keep tabs on the ones threatening RL action. If you get ANY harassment in addition to just in SL, contact the FBI (in the US, the FBI is the law enforcement agency charged with handling interstate crimes) and/or your local police.

Someone that is worried about being stalked, should probably keep having a gun to themselves anyways..

It also doesn't hurt to have a dog or two that will either, make enough noise to wake them up, or as a good defense for an intruder. A dog barking,especially if it's a really huge sounding bark, is usually good enough to have someone getting the hell away from the premises..

Plus they are just good healthy fun to have around anyways.. hehehehe

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

Someone that is worried about being stalked, should probably keep having a gun to themselves anyways..

It also doesn't hurt to have a dog or two that will either, make enough noise to wake them up, or as a good defense for an intruder. A dog barking,especially if it's a really huge sounding bark, is usually good enough to have someone getting the hell away from the premises..

Plus they are just good healthy fun to have around anyways.. hehehehe

 

I don't need a dog. All but one of my neighbors have dogs, most have at least two. Nothing moves in my yard I don't hear about. 😠🤣

[Codex Alpha]

11 hours ago, Keesie Pelous said:

"call the police"...that doesn't actually address my question, does it?  why state "we will not tolerate harassment" if they actually DO tolerate harassment?

"There's no need for LL to get involved in disputes that you can solve yourself by using the block user function"...i'm certain that threats of violence go beyond a "dispute".  and i fail to see how expecting residents to block people is a better option than expecting LL to follow their own TOS. 

 

LL does not tolerate ill behaviour of any sort, but in order to not have to respond to each and every report of an alleged offense, they give you the tools and ability to manage your own experience with others in SL.

The tools provided are more than sufficient to handle 99.9% of the issues for people. The problem I see, over and over and over and over and over again in virtual worlds is people NOT using these tools, and PURPOSEFULLY not using these tools - and every time the situation escalates.

LL also does not get involved in the personal disputes of users - as they are numerous and petty in my experience, and if they 'punished' everyone that everyone wanted to be 'punished' in SL - there would be no one left.

11 hours ago, Keesie Pelous said:

and for the record, i doubt the twit involved has the means to carry out any threats.

 

Then don't worry about it. Block the user and be on with your Second Life. You already let it get too far that you even considered having to file an abuse report.

If there are so many in SL and other platforms that find it so easy to do it to me, for literally nothing - what is stopping you from empowering yourself with the tools LL has provided you?

1 hour ago, Keesie Pelous said:

and thats the problem.  you shouldnt have to expect to be griefed and you shouldnt have to expect them to do nothing.

Wrong, it's the internet, and misunderstandings are made, feelings are hurt, conflicts, disputes and disagreements will happen. You are going to have to accept this not only as a fact of participating in Second Life - but accepting it in your real life.

Both existences have tools in place for you to manage such encounters. Use them.

1 hour ago, Keesie Pelous said:

and if you can't imagine there are people on SL who do nothing but go around trying to cause problems, i'd have to figure you were new to SL.  my SL partner was hosting in a club and I was there with her.  some dude ive never had an interaction with before IMed me and started running his mouth.  He didn't like my response so he IMed my partner and started running his mouth to her.  the same dude went back to the club several hours later and ran his mouth to another hostess and a club manager.  he ended up getting banned from the club and all 4 of us sent an abuse report to LL.  3 days later the dude is back in all of our IMs.  now you're certainly free to imagine anything you want but just keep in mind, what you imagine isnt necessarily reality

 

58 minutes ago, Keesie Pelous said:

They have a means of reporting harassment.  so if they aren't actually going to do anything, why do either of those things?  people spend a lot of real world money on SL and if LL isn't actually going to enforce their own rules, they at least owe the people on SL a straight answer instead of pretending they won't tolerate something.  its funny, i have a friend on SL who made clothes and he made a shirt with RW design of a popular rock band on it and his account was banned immediately.  but it seems people report threats of violence and LL sits around with their thumbs up their butts.  the moral of the story here seems to be that unless LL could be sued for allowing something, they just don't care and thats a shame.  it explains why there are so many complaints about douchebags on SL.

IMs are harmless, words are harmless, and on the first offense - whether any of us would feel if it is warranted or not - you could have instantly BLOCKED them.

But you didn't, and on further provocation, you still didn't. Why not?

Instead of being a tattletale, or fighting some war - use BLOCK Instead, and it's over.

Will you use your BLOCK function or will you not? If not, then we are dealing with a whole other issue here.

[Codex Alpha]

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Sacrifice your entire SL social circle, all your hobbies, interests and investments in the platform .. sounds a lot like letting the bully win.

Victims of abuse, harassment and threats feeling like they have no recourse but to leave the platform is not and should not ever be an acceptable solution.

Sure but eliminating everyone that made you feel offended is also not the solution. People need to grow up around here.

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

IMs are harmless, words are harmless, and on the first offense - whether any of us would feel if it is warranted or not - you could have instantly BLOCKED them.

But you didn't, and on further provocation, you still didn't. Why not?

Instead of being a tattletale, or fighting some war - use BLOCK Instead, and it's over.

Will you use your BLOCK function or will you not? If not, then we are dealing with a whole other issue here.

Please stop attacking the victim

[Codex Alpha]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Please stop attacking the victim

Quit playing a victim as a way of harnessing powers over others.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Codex Alpha

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

Quit playing a victim as a way of harnessing powers over others.

Please stop attacking me.