Aggressive helper on New Player Island

[Creed Hexem]

Long story short, I have a couple years under my belt and talked a RL friend into finally coming into Second Life and dipping their toes in the water. I wasn't awake at the very moment they created and logged in so they were walking around that area doing the basic command helps and whatever have you. And they get talked to multiple times by someone who says they're there to help the novices. (I don't remember that kind of person hanging around when I created, but it has been a few years) So my friend is being overly bombarded by comments about the fact that I have brought them to SL, how suspicious it is and how they should not wait around for me to help them, the list goes on and on for about an hour and I was finally awake to help them get off the island. 

Is this kind of thing normal?

It was really nearly enough to turn them off even trying more of Second Life and those of us who love it here understand how, I would hope, how disappointed that made/makes me. I hope that novice helps can do better than passing harassment and comments on a new person. I don't really come to the forums beyond an occasional hunt or search on a how-to so I don't know if this is a normal thing, if it is a fluke or what.. but maybe just letting others know can change that and keep it from happening again.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Creed Hexem

[Stephanie Misfit]

25 minutes ago, Creed Hexem said:

but maybe just letting others know can change that and keep it from happening again.

I doubt that, people are free to interact and speak with others as they wish in SL, and what you are describing does not go against the TOS. Sounds like whoever was "helping" your friend had just set themselves up in that position and was not there in any official capacity. I am not sure what us forum goers can do to help.

[Creed Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Stephanie Lovely said:

I doubt that, people are free to interact and speak with others as they wish in SL, and what you are describing does not go against the TOS. Sounds like whoever was "helping" your friend had just set themselves up in that position and was not there in any official capacity. I am not sure what us forum goers can do to help.

I think that's more or less what I'm questioning -- was it official or not. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

3 minutes ago, Creed Hexem said:

I think that's more or less what I'm questioning -- was it official or not. 

AFAIK there are no more official helpers on welcome island.

[Paulsian]

31 minutes ago, Creed Hexem said:

Long story short, I have a couple years under my belt and talked a RL friend into finally coming into Second Life and dipping their toes in the water. I wasn't awake at the very moment they created and logged in so they were walking around that area doing the basic command helps and whatever have you. And they get talked to multiple times by someone who says they're there to help the novices. (I don't remember that kind of person hanging around when I created, but it has been a few years) So my friend is being overly bombarded by comments about the fact that I have brought them to SL, how suspicious it is and how they should not wait around for me to help them, the list goes on and on for about an hour and I was finally awake to help them get off the island. 

Is this kind of thing normal?

It was really nearly enough to turn them off even trying more of Second Life and those of us who love it here understand how, I would hope, how disappointed that made/makes me. I hope that novice helps can do better than passing harassment and comments on a new person. I don't really come to the forums beyond an occasional hunt or search on a how-to so I don't know if this is a normal thing, if it is a fluke or what.. but maybe just letting others know can change that and keep it from happening again.

Sometimes when someone asks for help and asks what seems to be simple questions with expectations of getting simple answers gets the full answer can appear to be aggressive, have to factor in patience on both sides too. I've never experienced anyone getting aggressive in world while trying to teach me something, most of the time I had to learn on my own. 

I've seen a person cry out for help in foreign language and others make fun of them. I was glad to help that person get fully meshed and understand how things work. That's the best part of second life imo is helping. 

[Paulsian]

6 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

Sometimes when someone asks for help and asks what seems to be simple questions with expectations of getting simple answers gets the full answer can appear to be aggressive, have to factor in patience on both sides too. I've never experienced anyone getting aggressive in world while trying to teach me something, most of the time I had to learn on my own. 

I've seen a person cry out for help in foreign language and others make fun of them. I was glad to help that person get fully meshed and understand how things work. That's the best part of second life imo is helping. 

Before I did not fully understand your question. Yes about 1 1/2 ago I created a new avi for my business. I went through the learn how to jump and fly region that only had access to new accounts. I was approached by a lady flying and ya was kind of bugging me. 

[Paulsian]

51 minutes ago, Creed Hexem said:

Long story short, I have a couple years under my belt and talked a RL friend into finally coming into Second Life and dipping their toes in the water. I wasn't awake at the very moment they created and logged in so they were walking around that area doing the basic command helps and whatever have you. And they get talked to multiple times by someone who says they're there to help the novices. (I don't remember that kind of person hanging around when I created, but it has been a few years) So my friend is being overly bombarded by comments about the fact that I have brought them to SL, how suspicious it is and how they should not wait around for me to help them, the list goes on and on for about an hour and I was finally awake to help them get off the island. 

Is this kind of thing normal?

It was really nearly enough to turn them off even trying more of Second Life and those of us who love it here understand how, I would hope, how disappointed that made/makes me. I hope that novice helps can do better than passing harassment and comments on a new person. I don't really come to the forums beyond an occasional hunt or search on a how-to so I don't know if this is a normal thing, if it is a fluke or what.. but maybe just letting others know can change that and keep it from happening again.

It was a good lesson to be leery of strangers. We all learn it. 

[Creed Hexem]

1 minute ago, Paulsian said:

It was a good lesson to be leery of strangers. We all learn it. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[Lucia Nightfire]

Some times you get trolls that create accounts just to masquerade as helpers or worse, attempt to get identifying or financial information out of new users.

[Paulsian]

21 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Some times you get trolls that create accounts just to masquerade as helpers or worse, attempt to get identifying or financial information out of new users.

yah and if there is security there being leery of new people, thinking why is this existing person coming back as an alt (via macid flag)? and assume they are trolls could be just a big mess of confusion. I normally would not see a problem with someone not new coming in as a new person to help if they are only helping if approached and someone asks for help but thinking back being new I was kind of glad I did not have anyone trying to help me so I could focus on the official help content, then problem of okay this is supposed to be a social world and i'm the only person here? 

Maybe for new accounts they are not seen by other residents for a certain amount of time to solve the why the world is empty. bunch of random new people together in a learning area for the first time would seem to me to be like the cube movies. Maybe solo no show for so long might be solution? unless otherwise selected to be seen. like partial privacy but for avatars. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Paulsian

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Some times you get trolls that create accounts just to masquerade as helpers or worse, attempt to get identifying or financial information out of new users.

Its also not been unknown for actual helpers to feel they are the gatekeepers of SL. Part of their job being to determine who should pass and who isn't "the right sort".

 

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Creed Hexem said:

I think that's more or less what I'm questioning -- was it official or not. 

it depends on which island your friend was on.  Were they on Welcome Island or at the next step Social Island, or did they spawn at a Community Gateway

depending on which island they did spawn then the official or not can be better answered

Community Gateways are resident-run and do have official-to that-community helpers

New entrant Welcome Island and Social Island  also have a helpy resident group recognised by Linden

this said tho, your friend could have encountered what is sometimes referred to as a rogue mentor. Which on the Welcome Island happens as Lucia mentions. Somebody makes an alt account, signs in to Welcome Island and never leaves, which allows them to always be present on Welcome Island

some of the Social Islands are open to the public, so if your friend encountered this person there then this can happen to anyone and your friend got unlucky

hopefully tho you have encouraged your friend to move on from the not-helping department person and are helping them to realise the potential that SL offers

Edited June 17, 2022 by Mollymews
dep

[Akane Nacht]

Just now, Creed Hexem said:

I think that's more or less what I'm questioning -- was it official or not. 

Even if they were "official" (which sounds unlikely from your description), there's no obligation to respond to their IMs. When I joined long ago I ignored all chat and just did my thing.

As an aside, there are some newbie friendly places that are genuinely nice and helpful. Mindful Cove is one example (I'm not affiliated with them, I just like the build, and have seen how kind they are to newbies:)

[Maryanne Solo]

In my experience helping new avies with complicated things like heads, throughout the course of a 1/2 - 3/4 hr exchange, 
 I would have to be.... say... 30% more proactive in encouraging and kind statements to ensure NO aggression was discernable
in my behaviour/explanations.
As others would attest, helping isn't easy at all and extra care must be taken to appear super friendly and relaxed.

It's well worth it though. 8^) 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Maryanne Solo
Typo

[Love Zhaoying]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Its also not been unknown for actual helpers to feel they are the gatekeepers of SL. Part of their job being to determine who should pass and who isn't "the right sort".

 

I can see that backfiring, "giving birth to" griefers (peed-off new residents).

[xDancingStarx]

14 hours ago, Creed Hexem said:

but maybe just letting others know can change that and keep it from happening again

I admit this is a very wild and far fetched idea but have you ever considered letting the person in charge of that place know about your friend's bad experience, especially if you are interested in the situation to improve?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

6 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

I admit this is a very wild and far fetched idea but have you ever considered letting the person in charge of that place know about your friend's bad experience, especially if you are interested in the situation to improve?

You mean Linden Lab? New Player Island is where everyone starts now. You go through steps made by LL to learn how SL works. 

Personally, I dont think anyone but Linden employees should be allowed there aside from new users. 

[xDancingStarx]

5 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

AFAIK there are no more official helpers on welcome island.

...

New Player Island is where everyone starts now

Both is wrong, as it has been stated in this thread by others already.

[Lindal Kidd]

OK, this is a topic that I really AM an expert on.

There are several entry gateway regions to SL. For example, the Firestorm people have one, and a lot of new accounts using the Firestorm viewer are routed there. The official LL gateway is Welcome Island 2 (there used to be a 1, but no longer). At WI2, usually only brand new avatars are allowed, and once they leave they cannot return. (However, they can get to a duplicate region with the exact same design that is open to all, Welcome Back Island). This policy is to keep troublemakers from bothering new and naive residents.

The only other residents who are supposed to have access to Welcome Island 2 are members of the White Tiger Orientation group, a sub-group of White Tiger Mentors who have received additional training for this job. White Tiger Mentors also runs New Resident Island (currently being remodeled) and is a very old and reputable resident-run help group. Its head is Treacle Darlandes.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, some other residents have access to WI2. I have no idea how they are doing it. One of these is the resident who pestered the OP's friend.  She is not actually what I'd call a griefer, but she is very aggressive about "helping", often doing things like disparaging a newcomer's choice of user name.  I think she's hyperactive, unable to stand still or be quiet for any length of time. I have not reported her before this, considering her to be annoying but well-intentioned and basically harmless. Having seen this post, I will AR her the next time I see her on WI2.

EDIT:

Molly, a public-access version of Social Island does still exist, and it's usually loaded with the same sort of clowns who infest Infohubs. However, Social Island is no longer a part of the onboarding experience. In the same way, you can still find legacy versions of another even older onboarding system, Orientation Island Public and Help Island Public. "Learning Island", the log-in region(s) that used to be a part of the Learning Island/Social Island onboarding chain, has vanished entirely.

ANOTHER EDIT:

Silent, New Resident Island does indeed belong to White Tiger Mentors, but it's NOT a gateway region. NRI is open to the public. Welcome Island 2 is the gateway region where you'll often find people with the tag "White Tiger Guide" helping the newest of the new.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lindal Kidd

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

Both is wrong, as it has been stated in this thread by others already.

Both are correct. The White Tigers are not LL employees, they are resident volunteers.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/White_Tiger_Mentors

New Resident Island is the only entry point to SL using the official viewer. Third party viewers like Firestorm have their own entry points that are separate from the official.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

OK, this is a topic that I really AM an expert on.

There are several entry gateway regions to SL. For example, the Firestorm people have one, and a lot of new accounts using the Firestorm viewer are routed there. The official LL gateway is Welcome Island 2 (there used to be a 1, but no longer). At WI2, usually only brand new avatars are allowed, and once they leave they cannot return. (However, they can get to a duplicate region with the exact same design that is open to all, Welcome Back Island). This policy is to keep troublemakers from bothering new and naive residents.

The only other residents who are supposed to have access to Welcome Island 2 are members of the White Tiger Orientation group, a sub-group of White Tiger Mentors who have received additional training for this job. White Tiger Mentors also runs New Resident Island (currently being remodeled) and is a very old and reputable resident-run help group. Its head is Treacle Darlandes.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, some other residents have access to WI2. I have no idea how they are doing it. However, I  do know the resident who pestered the OP's friend.  She is not actually what I'd call a griefer, but she is very aggressive about "helping", often doing things like disparaging a newcomer's choice of user name.  I think she's hyperactive, unable to stand still or be quiet for any length of time. I have not reported her before this, considering her to be annoying but well-intentioned and basically harmless. Having seen this post, I will AR her the next time I see her on WI2.

I wasn't sure when you'd show up so I tried to cover for you. LOL

[xDancingStarx]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Both are correct. The White Tigers are not LL employees, they are resident volunteers.

What argument are you trying to make here? You have a bad experience with any of them, you can report them to whoever is in charge of them. They are NOT random people.

[Lindal Kidd]

2 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

What argument are you trying to make here? You have a bad experience with any of them, you can report them to whoever is in charge of them. They are NOT random people.

I'd never considered it before, but someone recently pointed out to me that this is indeed a hazard of the mentoring business. A disgruntled resident can AR you, and if LL finds in their favor, a mentor could wind up, in the worst case, banned forever from SL.

Mentors, be darn sure your chat and IMs demonstrate that you are cool, helpful, and professional at all times.

[Extrude Ragu]

I created an alt a few days ago with the sole purpose of making a bird to fly around the grid on. Don't judge I just prefer to make alts instead of outfits

Anyway, as a new account I was sent to the new newbie area (very modern btw - well done LL) - And eventually I went to a 'Newbie friendly' area in the destination guide cuz I like to see what the newbies in SecondLife are experiencing from time to time.

So I landed in this Newbie friendly area I believe it  was the Social Island. Immediately this person in a penguin avatar started using some tool to shove me around with their avatar - as a new avatar I was being griefed I did manage to groundsit so they could not shove me around but not great. They were persistent too, even after I groundsit they were still on my head for a whole hour trying to push me.

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Immediately this person in a penguin avatar started using some tool to shove me around with their avatar - as a new avatar I was being griefed I did manage to groundsit so they could not shove me around but not great. They were persistent too, even after I groundsit they were still on my head for a whole hour trying to push me.

That could be their entire Second Life goal, literally pushing n00bs around.