Linden Lab's new chief marketing officer.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Did you learn anything from this Wikipedia post that you would like to share with us?

I didn't. I have no idea what a CMO does.

[Lindal Kidd]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I didn't. I have no idea what a CMO does.

Neither does anyone else, including the CMO. This is what makes it a desirable position.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Neither does anyone else, including the CMO. This is what makes it a desirable position.

Sounds like a great job, get the credit if things go well and if things don't well, "not my job".

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I didn't. I have no idea what a CMO does.

A CMO is in charge of building relationships with the target audience of a product (in this case the CMO thinks this is developers) as well as things like creating a marketing plan to increase the products revenue and give the company an advantage over competitors (Meta, Roblox and Fortnite). They are also in charge of promotional things like sponsored events, advertising etc.

Basically what the CMO said in his interview whereby he is phoning companies trying to get them to sell sneakers or have large scale events in SL, getting his three advertisement companies to advertise SL etc, and trying to communicate with developers why they should use SL. All things I might add are the wrong thing to do. Should focus on getting users not developers, focus on small scale events like museums, art gallery events or unknown artist/band events etc., and look at breaking the wall in getting influencers (hate that word and what they stand for) and bigwigs on youtube and twitch (yes including working with twitch to unban SL) to stream SL and make content.

In other words, the CMO is there to ensure a company does not make a marketing blunder like the blue fairy advert that saw no increase in user uptake.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Ayashe Ninetails]

37 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I didn't. I have no idea what a CMO does.

They do the same thing the CFO does - pass off the hard work to the temporary staff and wish them the best at making heads or tails out of what on Earth is even going on in the company. Especially right before a major external audit.

-Signed, 

Former temp 😵

 

No but really - assuming you really don't know (to be honest, I'm not sure if I even worked in a company that had one but I'm familiar with the structure from working in other depts):

A CMO basically guides a company's advertising, branding, and marketing strategy. They do the market research, analytics, handle the PR, figure out which direction to take the brand in, etc. etc. In theory, anyway. It's the directors (or managers) on the next rung down that actually figure out how to take the CMO's creative vision and implement it in a practical way. They then filter the actual work down to the rest of their crews (like the creative design and advertising teams - depending on how the company's set up).

Oh and Drayke's answer gave some detailed insight into a day in the life.

[Jackson Redstar]

unfortunately, no matter the marketing, you get a new user coming in on a 3000 dollar gaming computer, go to a crowded event and getting 8FPS (or less) - that's kinda turn off. Those of us that have been here a while know SL and just live with it or deal with it the best we can, but, IMO, new user will just mostly see this as a outdated lagfest "game"

[Arielle Popstar]

Think in the olden days they used to call CMO's the sales manager. like Herb from WKRP in Cincinnati

[Coffee Pancake]

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

A CMO is in charge of building relationships with the target audience of a product (in this case the CMO thinks this is developers)

The build and they will come fallacy .. he really should log in, pick a keyword and then start exploring the hundreds and hundreds of dead builds with under 3 figure traffic scores. SL is a mausoleum to unrealized hope and dreams. Builders we have, it's people to enjoy what the builders create that's missing.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

as well as things like creating a marketing plan to increase the products revenue and give the company an advantage over competitors (Meta, Roblox and Fortnite). They are also in charge of promotional things like sponsored events, advertising etc.

That's a bit like a lemonade stand coming up with plan to take on Pepsi.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Basically what the CMO said in his interview whereby he is phoning companies trying to get them to sell sneakers or have large scale events in SL,

That's not how brands and events end up in Roblox or Fortnite .. the companies call them.

Not that we really want RL brands in SL either, the only outcome from that is said BRAND starts stomping on all the "inspired by" content in SL. A few people will like being able to pay though the nose for some virtual BRAND trainers, but most people just aren't.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

getting his three advertisement companies to advertise SL etc,

Hello, is this sales? I have a pile of money and want to buy some advertising.

Talking is "I have a small pile of money and maybe we can do a deal? ... plz"

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

and trying to communicate with developers why they should use SL.

If a developer is sitting down with a project and wondering what platform they should use to develop and build it, there is no compelling reason to pick SL over any of the alternatives. In most cases this is objectively the worst place to achieve ROI.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

All things I might add are the wrong thing to do. Should focus on getting users not developers, focus on small scale events like museums, art gallery events or unknown artist/band events etc.,

That's a proven fallacy too. Such "events" are not an end in of themselves, ever. Sansar more than demonstrated this.

I could go to a THING, but if I do, I'm going to the THING for entirely social reasons. Perhaps my friends like the THING, or perhaps I want to make friends who are also into the THING.

The virtual THING is never more of a draw than a real world THING so there has to be bigger reasons.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

In other words, the CMO is there to ensure a company does not make a marketing blunder like the blue fairy advert that saw no increase in user uptake.

That advert was never for us or people like us, that advert was for the new owners.

[diamond Marchant]

I wish Mr. Feuling success in his new job.

Quote

I have no idea what a CMO does. (said by Coffee Pancake)

The best marketing person I worked with defined marketing as the "right stuff"... right product, right time, right place, right branding, etc.

Linden Research, being private, is somewhat of a black box... but on the outside we see a payment processing company (Tilia) whose main customer (Second Life) is captive, as they share an Executive Chairman.

It looks like Mr. Feuling was hired (or contracted, not sure) by Mr. Oberwager to do marketing things that will result in increased revenue for Linden Research. However, it is not clear that Mr. Feuling is well suited to conceiving the "right product" in the metaverse/virtual world space. He may turn out to be just a barker for the current state of affairs, which we "weirdo pervs" both love and hate. (Coffee should trademark that phrase)

[Extrude Ragu]

When I think of marketing I think of attracting new customers, and choosing which customers to attract.

Generally, the best customer to attract is the loyal one who will use your service to the end of time.

SecondLife has customers like this today, but they are ageing. People who haven't used SecondLife before and are our age aren't as open to trying new things.

My suggestion would be this - Re-open the teen grid and introduce new people to SecondLife whilst they are young and open to new ideas and learning new concepts, give them the confidence to use and enjoy the platform and you'll have new customers for life.

[Drayke Newall]

27 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The build and they will come fallacy .. he really should log in, pick a keyword and then start exploring the hundreds and hundreds of dead builds with under 3 figure traffic scores. SL is a mausoleum to unrealized hope and dreams. Builders we have, it's people to enjoy what the builders create that's missing.

That's a bit like a lemonade stand coming up with plan to take on Pepsi.

That's not how brands and events end up in Roblox or Fortnite .. the companies call them.

Not that we really want RL brands in SL either, the only outcome from that is said BRAND starts stomping on all the "inspired by" content in SL. A few people will like being able to pay though the nose for some virtual BRAND trainers, but most people just aren't.

Hello, is this sales? I have a pile of money and want to buy some advertising.

Talking is "I have a small pile of money and maybe we can do a deal? ... plz"

If a developer is sitting down with a project and wondering what platform they should use to develop and build it, there is no compelling reason to pick SL over any of the alternatives. In most cases this is objectively the worst place to achieve ROI.

Agree 100%. As I have said already many times, he comes across as never even stepping foot in SL or not knowing the player base (doing his homework).

27 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's a proven fallacy too. Such "events" are not an end in of themselves, ever. Sansar more than demonstrated this.

I could go to a THING, but if I do, I'm going to the THING for entirely social reasons. Perhaps my friends like the THING, or perhaps I want to make friends who are also into the THING.

The virtual THING is never more of a draw than a real world THING so there has to be bigger reasons.

I meant it in the way that it would have more of success in getting those kind of companies in than Sony etc like Fortnite has. Sony has been in SL and knows of Sl. A small art gallery that can create a virtual replica of their RL gallery for those house bound would be easier to convince than Sony.

27 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That advert was never for us or people like us, that advert was for the new owners.

I always took it as 'hey look, we just bought SL and are actively promoting it" as a distraction from why they really bought it.

25 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I wish Mr. Feuling success in his new job.

The best marketing person I worked with defined marketing as the "right stuff"... right product, right time, right place, right branding, etc.

Linden Research, being private, is somewhat of a black box... but on the outside we see a payment processing company (Tilia) whose main customer (Second Life) is captive, as they share an Executive Chairman.

I understood that Tillia has a CEO but Linden Lab itself doesn't and hasn't since Ebbe.

25 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

It looks like Mr. Feuling was hired (or contracted, not sure) by Mr. Oberwager to do marketing things that will result in increased revenue for Linden Research. However, it is not clear that Mr. Feuling is well suited to conceiving the "right product" in the metaverse/virtual world space. He may turn out to be just a barker for the current state of affairs, which we "weirdo pervs" both love and hate. (Coffee should trademark that phrase)

His entire portfolio is based on Business to Business marketing with none and bad rep in consumer marketing (cough K-Mart cough). He has been clearly hired to promote Tilia to companies for the token (virtual currency) to RL cash side of things than Second Life.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[diamond Marchant]

Why is this phrase popping in my mind...

Quote

You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

My suggestion would be this - Re-open the teen grid 

All that happened was LL stopped isolating the teen grid from the "grown up" grid. Partially for cost and safety reasons, but also because the separation wasn't meeting the desired goals of keeping adult content and teens apart - The crafty buggers had all the same prims we had. Teens can still come to SL, but it doesn't make a lot of sense when places like VR chat exist - As one youtuber put it, it's wholesome without the W.

It's one thing to declare that teens shouldn't have access to adult content for legal and ethical reasons, but we were all teenagers and everyone I grew up with (myself included) were obsessed with everything that was behind the adult door, and that included a tremendous amount of sex and surreptitiously obtained alcohol. The adult gateway actually put us in real danger as we found it difficult to obtain condoms and the like.

11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I understood that Tillia has a CEO but Linden Lab itself doesn't and hasn't since Ebbe.

We really should have one.

11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

He has been clearly hired to promote Tilia to companies for the token (virtual currency) to RL cash side of things than Second Life.

Tilia feels like a misstep, sure it's the virtual paypal and that's an exciting proposition, but deep down that's not how any corporation really wants their platform to operate. They want the money to come flowing in and then stay in.

[Codex Alpha]

 

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

Should focus on getting users not developers, focus on small scale events like museums, art gallery events or unknown artist/band events etc., and look at breaking the wall in getting influencers (hate that word and what they stand for) and bigwigs on youtube and twitch (yes including working with twitch to unban SL) to stream SL and make content.

I agree. Focus on the user experience, getting more users, improving  everything to do with users, keep creators happy, etc.

Then a company will BEG to participate on SL.

The problem with Sansar was they were marketing to companies, DJ outfits, etc trying to get them to go there, but to what # of users? I whole heartedly agree and assert (as a past hardcore gamer who knows that community inside and out), gotta get the users (and creators) first.

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The build and they will come fallacy .. he really should log in, pick a keyword and then start exploring the hundreds and hundreds of dead builds with under 3 figure traffic scores. SL is a mausoleum to unrealized hope and dreams. Builders we have, it's people to enjoy what the builders create that's missing.

I am a big advocate of 'build it and they will come' (I said this on Sansar) but that is not to the exclusion of other business practices and marketing, it iss alongside at the same time getting and retaining users.

People may argue the 'chicken and egg' argument about this, but I firmly believe that if there is an immersive, fun and interesting 'world' for users to explore, play and socialize in - then they will stay and come back, and bring some friends. Without an area to stand or gather (a world) there is nothing. As a creator and one who can defer gratification and credit while investing into something like bettering my skills, or working on a world that could engage people - I already understand that I will be putting that initial investment in, that I'm not entitled to visitors or users, and that I'm not entitled to them using or staying there - unless I can provide engaging content.

So in the chicken and egg kinda debate - I'm still for 'build it and they will come', though again this is not excluding other needed things like marketing, advertising, etc.

If users don't enjoy our builds, that's our fault and our failure. No point having users that will come to your parcel/world, see everything in 3 minutes, see no interactivity, see no changes or updates to keep them coming back (like decorating  your nightclub for christmas or having a hockey night themed version, etc), and they get bored and leave. We can do this. If I think I know who you are, I know you are very talented and know what I mean.

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's not how brands and events end up in Roblox or Fortnite .. the companies call them.

Yep. If you have enough users on your platform, by whatever means, the corporations they want will beg to be on their platform. Roblox and Fortnite have millions, so they're in the power position and actually offer some value.

OR they will come (eg. Hello Kitty) like the <ahem> prementioned platform, only because it's cheap or free and getting a premium spot in a 'hub' - might as well do it. But are they going to pay to advertise to an empty world/platform?

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Not that we really want RL brands in SL either, the only outcome from that is said BRAND starts stomping on all the "inspired by" content in SL. A few people will like being able to pay though the nose for some virtual BRAND trainers, but most people just aren't.

Yep. In many ways it would be a <ahem> newer platform's dream to have corporate companies and their products (in 3d asset form) to sell all of us, and pretty much sure non-brand or unknown or even innovative designs from creators will play second fiddle. I'm not so sympathetic to 'inspired by' creations, because usually they are just copies and basically gaming the rules - so don't care about them. Or if someone is just replicating models from Martha Stewart Magazine or Home and Garden and selling them for a profit - they can do it, but SHOULD come to odds with Martha if she decides to start selling her own assets there.

After all users have said they want real-life looking assets (which bores me), so it's not entirely false that corporations selling 3d versions of their most desired products wouldn't happen eventually. This is also the aim of the modern Metaverse - and ugly corporate-run hellhole of rules and behavioural control. No thanks.

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If a developer is sitting down with a project and wondering what platform they should use to develop and build it, there is no compelling reason to pick SL over any of the alternatives. In most cases this is objectively the worst place to achieve ROI.

I would agree. I'm just wondering why I'm a sucker for punishment and continue. I just like challenges I guess, and SL gives me technical ones. I did start in SL, and I do want to 'graduate' of sorts and find my place. Can't do much more before a computer system upgrade (due to Covid its 3 years delayed now), otherwise I'm off to Unreal to see what it has to offer FOR SURE.

With all the tons of work a creator has to do here, along with workarounds, and learning and stumbling and trial and error even for some of the basics, the learning curve (for at least us self-taught) can be steep and grueling and discouraging at times (Sansar was a breeze in comparison, though they had a habit of incomplete and outdated documentation on pretty much every subject - and locked behind their Discord channel wall away from the world).

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's a proven fallacy too. Such "events" are not an end in of themselves, ever. Sansar more than demonstrated this.

I could go to a THING, but if I do, I'm going to the THING for entirely social reasons. Perhaps my friends like the THING, or perhaps I want to make friends who are also into the THING.

The virtual THING is never more of a draw than a real world THING so there has to be bigger reasons.

That advert was never for us or people like us, that advert was for the new owners.

"We will now focus on live events and event spaces" was fine, as long as it didn't exclude all other activities on a platform, and can be done side by side with everything else. AltSpace, Sinespace, etc don't seem to have a problem being everything, no need to focus on one thing - then have it as a part of why a platform fails. Focus on users users users.

"Let's not worry about more banning tools. We don't have enough users for that right now. Let's just focus on getting more people here, I want that griefer problem. Let's get the users here first then we can deal with that" - A wise quote from the late Ebbe (regarding Sansar)

People need to stop worrying about trolls and griefers in new users - they are part of the equation and are easily blocked by individuals anyway. Most of them are just rowdy gamers like myself that are used to talking guano, teasing people and having fun. It's a bit of a guano test - but we always settle down. No need to panic.

And if that troll makes videos about the platform, it's free advertising Get the users!

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The virtual THING is never more of a draw than a real world THING so there has to be bigger reasons.

Yes, true value in the service, event or world. A reason to come and visit, and return. And bring friends.

If the value proposition, such as seen on <ahem> the other platform, was "Buy a ticket, and come to an event with a live DJ", then you come and it's a stream of a live DJ, without any investment in actually performing in the platform itself (eg. not just streaming into it, or not even acknowledging it at all)...

Then all I am doing is watching a stream I could watch through a more efficient way, through youtube or other, and then I don't have to deal with my computer using all the resources to process the 3d world, the crowing of avatars - for an event that most people just click a dance emote and go AFK anyway.

Is that really engaging content? Nope. Engaging content would be for a platform to be big enough that there is an actual Metallica concert (pick your favourite artist) on the platform FOR the platform, and FOR the actual users AT the event - then it might be something of worth

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Codex Alpha

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Re-open the teen grid and introduce new people to SecondLife whilst they are young and open to new ideas

There is only one person, @Daniel Voyager, that I know for sure migrated from the Teen Grid to the Main Grid and is still active in SL. I'm sure there are others, but he's the one that's semi-famous.

But aside from not achieving what you envision, reviving the Teen Grid would be a horrible idea. The place was infested with copybot users and full of stolen content and griefers (or at least, so I hear Maybe Daniel can confirm or deny).

Plus, all G-rated land and content is now available to teens (16-18) on the Main Grid.

[Paulsian]

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Did you learn anything from this Wikipedia post that you would like to share with us?

yah but its classified

[Paulsian]

i wana be the cfo

[Paulsian]

that would be easiest box everything up give me all the spreadsheets and ill make sure everything balances. double books no problem..little finance humor but really to see the numbers/data from launch ar/ap payroll end of month blahblah

Edited May 19, 2022 by Paulsian

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/17/2022 at 2:43 AM, animats said:

LL has hired a new Chief Marketing Officer, Steven Feuling.

Business Insider article.

Notes:

• Feuling was an ad exec at Dentsu, Kmart, and Bloomberg.
• "Planning a marketing blitz."
• "Second Life won't harness user data to bombard people with ads ... We will never be Facebook, or Meta, in terms of that. ... We don't believe that it's additive to have a billboard for a soft drink kind of outside of your virtual home" - Feuling.
• Transactions of virtual goods totaled $650 million in 2021, with content creators pocketing more than $80 million of that. - LL.
• Feuling is in the middle of negotiations with three advertisers and a major ad agency.

Anyone met the guy yet? Has he been seen in-world?

He sounds perfect, because SL really does fall somewhere between Kmart and Bloomberg as a media organization.

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

A CMO is in charge of building relationships with the target audience of a product (in this case the CMO thinks this is developers) as well as things like creating a marketing plan to increase the products revenue and give the company an advantage over competitors (Meta, Roblox and Fortnite). They are also in charge of promotional things like sponsored events, advertising etc.

Basically what the CMO said in his interview whereby he is phoning companies trying to get them to sell sneakers or have large scale events in SL, getting his three advertisement companies to advertise SL etc, and trying to communicate with developers why they should use SL. All things I might add are the wrong thing to do. Should focus on getting users not developers, focus on small scale events like museums, art gallery events or unknown artist/band events etc., and look at breaking the wall in getting influencers (hate that word and what they stand for) and bigwigs on youtube and twitch (yes including working with twitch to unban SL) to stream SL and make content.

In other words, the CMO is there to ensure a company does not make a marketing blunder like the blue fairy advert that saw no increase in user uptake.

The Blue Fairy ad, which to me ranks right up there with the performances of the Bee Girl, won LL industry awards. And that's what counts with them. The jury of their peers.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

The problem with Sansar was they were marketing to companies, DJ outfits, etc trying to get them to go there, but to what # of users? I whole heartedly agree and assert (as a past hardcore gamer who knows that community inside and out), gotta get the users (and creators) first.

That was after they pivoted - At the start they seemed to be hoping it would just organically take off with showcase museum builds leading the way. A few SL users pottered on over and set up shop & built locations, but without people, it was all for nothing.

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

I am a big advocate of 'build it and they will come' (I said this on Sansar) but that is not to the exclusion of other business practices and marketing, it iss alongside at the same time getting and retaining users.

and you built .. and no one came, repeating the hard learnt lessons of almost two decades of SL users before you.

A location isn't an answer to the question - Why should I participate here.

A popular location isn't ever popular because of the location, it's popular because of the people at that location. If you can't get them to come to your build, maybe you needed a CMO.

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Yes, true value in the service, event or world. A reason to come and visit, and return. And bring friends.

No it isn't.

No one is in SL for land ownership model or finical systems. We are here for each other. We are here because the social tools enable us to be here, everything else is just window dressing.

Engaging content is the backdrop upon which our social interactions play out. Nothing more.

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The Blue Fairy ad, which to me ranks right up there with the performances of the Bee Girl, won LL industry awards. And that's what counts with them. The jury of their peers.

As I said .. it wasn't an advert for us or SL users in general. It was an platform advert for a target audience who have no interest in participating.

The best advert for SL users would be "Come be anyone you like, make friends, make your world, fall in love."

[Prokofy Neva]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

As I said .. it wasn't an advert for us or SL users in general. It was an platform advert for a target audience who have no interest in participating.

The best advert for SL users would be "Come be anyone you like, make friends, make your world, fall in love."

They had that already. But it lead to a lot of griefing and even RL lawsuits.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They had that already. But it lead to a lot of griefing and even RL lawsuits.

Can't have griefing and lawsuits without people, both are arguably solid indicators of a vibrant platform.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They had that already. But it lead to a lot of griefing and even RL lawsuits.

Can't have griefing and lawsuits without people, both are arguably solid indicators of a vibrant platform.

I think we have an answer! "Save Second Life! Bring back Griefing and Lawsuits!"

- This message brought to you by LL.