Second Chance For Banned Users

[Silent Mistwalker]

22 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Waste of time and resources.

So the solution is to not bother and just let people run amok? I thought the goal was to keep SL going for as long as possible, not get it shut down over night. Yeah ok, a bit exaggerated. You get the point.

There's always going to be some waste of time and resources. I'd rather it be wasted on keeping those who really should not be in SL where everyone is better off. Not in SL.

[Paul Hexem]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

So the solution is to not bother and just let people run amok? I thought the goal was to keep SL going for as long as possible, not get it shut down over night. Yeah ok, a bit exaggerated. You get the point.

There's always going to be some waste of time and resources. I'd rather it be wasted on keeping those who really should not be in SL where everyone is better off. Not in SL.

Banning the same person over and over again is a waste of time and resources. Not wasting your time on ineffective tasks isn't the same as doing nothing.

That's why you so often see advice in the "help me, being abused" threads detail things the victim should do to avoid it, not ways to try to ban the offender. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

Banning the same person over and over again is a waste of time and resources. Not wasting your time on ineffective tasks isn't the same as doing nothing.

That's why you so often see advice in the "help me, being abused" threads detail things the victim should do to avoid it, not ways to try to ban the offender. 

You really don't want to go there with me considering I have been a victim in the past. Online and RL. Please. Just don't.

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, Bloodflowers174 said:

     I'm Monte and I'm a banned resident. I was banned around May 15th, 2017 and at that time I was 19. I'm 24 now, graduated and I feel like a different person than I was then.

Not really.  Really?  If so, you ARE a different person than you were then.  You are a person who is close to the peak of your energy and attractiveness in

YOUR

ENTIRE

LIFE.

My advice?  Truly.  Forget about SL.  To whatever capacity you are able, find a partner, start a career, build your muscles, think about if you want kids, join groups, pursue interesting hobbies, travel.  Make friends with a lot of different people.  At 24, every bit of time you can spend doing real things in real life will return the investment tenfold as you get older.

Do all the above, before the elders in your family need you to take care of them.

Return to SL, if it still exists, when you have given ALL THE ABOVE your best shot. 

Seriously.

[Nalates Urriah]

7 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then continually being banned on multiple accounts over the years seems to mean they continue with the bad behavior?  Not sure how else they would know it's the same person.

We never really know who logged on. What we can know is which IP address they logged in from and which machine they used. For networking to work the system has to know where network packets are coming from so they can reply. The MAC address is part of the return address. The MAC comes from the network card.

This is the basic information the Lab uses. Plus there is likely some other information the Lab considers... I think everything in the viewer's HELP->About... panel is tracked by SL. It gives them an idea of the hardware users are using and what they have to support. They may have a pretty decent idea of the computer you use. In combination with various other nifty insights those crafty Lindens divine ways to eliminate trouble makers. And if you buy Linden Dollars... well there is a RL clue to your identity.

However, in the short term a decent techy can spoof the IP and MAC addresses. This why some people reappear the next day after being banned. There are ways to get your router to change IP addresses, one can change network cards, use a different computer all together, and have loads of free email addresses. Makes it very hard to know who is really logging into get a new account. So, I suspect much of the ID of problem people is their being recognized by there behavior or language and lack of payment info.

The real punishment is the loss of inventory in a permanent ban. Those using free accounts less than some age tend to be the problem people.

Perma-ban is not ever from a minor infraction or a one time thing. So those people that got perma-banned should likely stay perma-banned.

However, having worked and occasionally still working with RL out reach groups I've met people that have made some amazing turn a rounds in their life. The problem is for someone in the Lab's position to realize who has changed and who is still a problem.

We see the RL problem in the No-Bail cities/states. People are arrested for a crime, processed through the system and are on the street again, often in less than 2 hours. Some people have been arrested 4 times in a day for the same type of crime. Obviously the judges and prosecutors are messing up and being played by the repeat offender.

For us in SL we have to decide if we want the same type of problems in SL. If the Lindens can't know who is going to repeat offend, why should we encourage them to give out second chances?

 

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

You really don't want to go there with me considering I have been a victim in the past. Online and RL. Please. Just don't.

You can't bring it up yourself, then say "don't go there with me", unless you're just trying to score social media victim points.

I stand by what I said. Better to put time and effort into things that work, not do pointless things just because someone feels like "someone needs to do something".

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

You can't bring it up yourself, then say "don't go there with me", unless you're just trying to score social media victim points.

I stand by what I said. Better to put time and effort into things that work, not do pointless things just because someone feels like "someone needs to do something".

You're reaching really heard there. Have a good evening.

[So Whimsy]

8 hours ago, Mollymews said:

with treatment, people who are sociopaths can change

 

 

Pedophilia is a sexuality like homosexuality, bisexuality, heterosexuality and so on. It's NOT something you can therapy out of a person.

[Dragon Mommy]

7 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Pedophilia is a sexuality like homosexuality, bisexuality, heterosexuality and so on. It's NOT something you can therapy out of a person.

This is one of the most harmful and inaccurate takes AND is often used to justify why Homosexuality should be outlawed. Major yikes. 

[So Whimsy]

8 hours ago, Bloodflowers174 said:

I've returned to SL on over 200 accounts by now, but I've definitely matured

No...no I really don't think you have.

[So Whimsy]

5 minutes ago, Bitterthorn said:

This is one of the most harmful and inaccurate takes AND is often used to justify why Homosexuality should be outlawed. Major yikes. 

Wow, I don't think you understood my post at all.

You cannot therapy someone's sexuality. Pedophilia included. That is what I am saying, not sure why you're bringing up outlawing homosexuality....

Edited April 11, 2022 by So Whimsy

[Mollymews]

29 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Pedophilia is a sexuality like homosexuality, bisexuality, heterosexuality and so on. It's NOT something you can therapy out of a person.

it doesn't matter whether the pedophile is homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual, they are still a pedophile

the USA  (same in many other countries) medically diagnose pedophilia as a paraphilic disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

 

 

 

[So Whimsy]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it doesn't matter whether the pedophile is homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual, they are still a pedophile

the USA  (same in many other countries) medically diagnose pedophilia as a paraphilic disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

 

 

 

I was not referring to the sexuality of a pedophile, I was referring to the different sexualities in general, one of which is pedophilia.

I don't really care what the US has classified it as. There's plenty of countries in the world that classify anything else than heterosexuality as a sickness, does it make those countries right? No.

Edited April 11, 2022 by So Whimsy

[Mollymews]

Just now, So Whimsy said:

I was not referring to the sexuality of a pedophile, I was referring to the different sexualities in general, one of which is pedophilia.

on the link I posted there is a table of paraphilia disorders, one of which is pedophilia

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Mollymews said:

with treatment, people who are sociopaths can change

I like Robert Hare's definitions of the two. A psychopath is a person lacking a sense of empathy or morality. A sociopath is a person who only differs from the ordinary person in the sense of right or wrong

with sociopaths, medical intervention is possible and can be successful in many cases

with psychopaths then intervention is a lot harder. That it is harder doesn't mean that intervention is impossible in all cases, it just means that in some cases the person is medically irredeemable - meaning that there is no path to redemption for this person. In the irredeemable psychopathic case the person is typically detained in a mental institution and in no position to log into SL

 

Your information reminds me of "Clockwork Orange".

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Bitterthorn said:

This is one of the most harmful and inaccurate takes AND is often used to justify why Homosexuality should be outlawed. Major yikes. 

Yeah, thought I was reading some kind of NAMBLA defense.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, So Whimsy said:

10 hours ago, Bloodflowers174 said:

I've returned to SL on over 200 accounts by now, but I've definitely matured

No...no I really don't think you have.

Maybe it took 200 tries to mature?

[cunomar]

I left home for many years and when i returned it amused me how many figures of authority claimed i had changed .

Non denied it when i explained that i haven't changed at all but rather they had dropped their own imaginary assumption that i am of a volatile temperament and some vague threat to their authority .

"ooh i don't know you were wild" to which i'd reply give me one example when you wouldn't have done exactly what i did if you were able to . They usually bought me a beer in reply to that .

200 times is someone with a real issue they need to address/confront/remedy .

How many people are serving life in prison for a single moment of madness/stupidity that would give everything and anything to undo the crime even if it wouldn't change their own personal circumstances ?

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

Wow, I don't think you understood my post at all.

You cannot therapy someone's sexuality. Pedophilia included. That is what I am saying, not sure why you're bringing up outlawing homosexuality....

A forced therapy like an intervention would likely fail but one that is initiated by the person themselves and maintained, would have a good chance of success. There are plenty of 12 Step support groups that deal with various sexual issues wherein there are long term members who are self motivated not to return to sexual behaviours they themselves object to but were previously obsessed with.

[Phil Deakins]

Oops. My post below is a response to the OP, but it looks like it's out of place now as the current topic has nothing to do with it. I'll leave it posted though.

 

My first thought is that anyone who does something that merits a ban, is the same person today as when s/he willingly chose to do that thing. So I would be against letting them back in.

My second thought is that there are huge differences in the way that the various Lindens actually do things. For example, one Linden suspended me for something, and when I got back, another Linden agreed that I should never have been suspended, and reversed it, albeit, too late to not be suspended for the duration. So maybe some people should be allowed back in.

Given that there are, and always have been, some Lindens around who can be a bit challenged when it comes to common sense, it seems to me that even they wouldn't ban someone unless a ban was realistically merited. So, on balance, I'm against letting people who willingly did the things they got banned for back in.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

31 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

A forced therapy like an intervention would likely fail but one that is initiated by the person themselves and maintained, would have a good chance of success. There are plenty of 12 Step support groups that deal with various sexual issues wherein there are long term members who are self motivated not to return to sexual behaviours they themselves object to but were previously obsessed with.

I think there is a "middle ground". I've known people who were "forced" as part of their conviction (of sex crimes) to follow 12-step programs, but who were also sincerely sorry and wanted to change.  Because of that, they really got into the 12-step program.

[kali Wylder]

19 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh yes you do.

And he kept coming back here, on alt after alt after alt.

And he was definitely NOT "reformed."

Oh him! I don't count him as someone that I know.  I suppose we were both present at an event or two but I can't count that as knowing a person.  I don't think we ever even had a conversation to speak of.  Was he perma banned?  I was long gone when it happened. 

Well taking that into consideration, I stand by my previous statement, why take a chance of repeating such unpleasantness?

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think there is a "middle ground". I've known people who were "forced" as part of their conviction (of sex crimes) to follow 12-step programs, but who were also sincerely sorry and wanted to change.  Because of that, they really got into the 12-step program.

You're absolutely right that it does happen and I have witnessed it with people with other issues but I just didn't want to taint the post with anything some might label as a "conversion therapy". 

[Luna Bliss]

51 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

5 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

Wow, I don't think you understood my post at all.

You cannot therapy someone's sexuality. Pedophilia included. That is what I am saying, not sure why you're bringing up outlawing homosexuality....

A forced therapy like an intervention would likely fail but one that is initiated by the person themselves and maintained, would have a good chance of success. There are plenty of 12 Step support groups that deal with various sexual issues wherein there are long term members who are self motivated not to return to sexual behaviours they themselves object to but were previously obsessed with.

I *think* what So Whimsy is trying to point to is the fact that the sexual attraction to children will almost always remain.  However, people can be rehabilitated so as not to ACT on that attraction.

We do have to take into account that the recidivism rate for this condition is well over 30%, and many are not comfortable re-introducing them into society with so great a chance to re-offend.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I *think* what So Whimsy is trying to point to is the fact that the sexual attraction to children will almost always remain.  However, people can be rehabilitated so as not to ACT on that attraction.

From my own experience with 12 Step groups, I would point out that when one is sincere in following its precepts, one loses the attraction, not just given the power to not act on it (though that is also there) to that which used to be an overriding obsession. So Whimsy's post smacked of an element of hopelessness for anyone so afflicted which is why I chose to post what I did.