Linden Labs asking for Feedback

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

You got that right.   That's why I made myself a handy positioning tool (basically a transparent prim with a script and a bunch of poses in it) that I can sit on to become an editable object.  Then I can move the prim around with the edit tool as much as I like, and I can chose a favorite pose when I want a carefully crafted photo.

Well, in a similar vein, for photographs I use a pose stand when I can. Which, of course, I sometimes cannot.

5 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

(That's really a rare occasion, frankly.  I don't take a ton of photos like some people.  😎 )

You casting a bit of shade, Rolig? Huh? Ya wanna take it outside??

[Rolig Loon]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, in a similar vein, for photographs I use a pose stand when I can. Which, of course, I sometimes cannot.

Yeah, that's the big flaw in the plan. If you can't rez a pose stand, you're stuck.

[Arielle Popstar]

15 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I found it to be the opposite. IMVU drove me nuts yet SL is easy enough since I get to organize things my way so I can find what I'm looking for quickly and easily.

There really is no one good way to do it.

I just wish creators would include images that are copy/no trans. I like to keep a copy of the image of the outfit in the folder with the outfit so I can refresh my memory on what it looks like without having to try it on. Too many creators are still doing the no copy thing on their images. I don't care if it's no mod as long as I can use it as a reference and not have to worry about inventory loss due to some issue on LL's end. Yes, it has happened and no I couldn't get another copy of the image.

Yes, it would be nice if IMVU allowed some ability to move inventory items to different categories or their ordering even within each, but as a default setup for those of us who are not highly organized residents, it does cut down substantially on the need to search as well as seeing quickly which hair, dress, shoes one would like to wear for today. That is what it seems to come down to when discussing inventory restructuring where those with organizing ability see no need for changing things vs those like myself (majority) haven't that talent. From a new resident perspective however I think it would help a lot with retaining some because I know from past dealings with new people, it is the source of one of the biggest frustrations.

I feel the exasperation with the image aspect especially when there isn't one at all forcing me to upload my own at 10L per though after doing some playing about this morning I came to realize that all the MP ads have a linked image at https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/ which have different sizes of pics depending on how the url is configured like this: https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/assets/30098728/view_large/SASHVEND.jpg?1630121706 where if you change the "view_large" to "thumbnail" generates a smaller pic: 

even if the ad itself doesn't show a thumbnail.  It at least allows one to see a picture without having to upload one to inventory. Maybe there is a way to script it.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There is no way we could have a drop in pictorial replacement for inventory.

We have one folder with hud elements, multiple clothing parts for multiple bodies, some with multiple variations and a box of extra stuff.

Condense that hot mess into a single folder hidden by a image and then what?

What happens when you try to wear the picture.

Any pictorial system that depends on the user sorting it out is pointless as it provides none of the desired simplicity to people who actually need it.

We simply do not need a picture of every item in the folder. Like the IMVU inventory pictures, there is other links exposed on a mouse rollover which for S/L could simply include a drop down menu where one can add one or more of the other items needed, like alpha's etc. Simply change the folder icon with a thumbnail obtained from a marketplace ad picture with the image url. This should be easy peasy shouldn't it? No need to even upload a separate picture unless the item was inworld only.

Quote

 

What we need is object tagging. A system of tagging each and every inventory object (always modifiable by the user regardless of object perms so we can manually retro fit it to our older stuff if we care to), including UI to bulk tag objects.

Two new fields for every single asset type

A list of text tags -  #bodytype #dress #blue #nsfw

An inventory texture that can be displayed when you mouse over an object, or used to create an IMVU like simple inventory.

 

Creators can then pre set these when putting an object for sale, we can retro fit to everything we like under the sun.

Text tags have uses way beyond making a simple inventory. The system should poll an LL database when typing tags and offer suggestions ordered by popularity, this will help keep us all tagging similar things with similar tags.

 

Ok sounds wonderful but how about just starting with the ability to change an items folder icon with a thumbnail from the items MP picture url? This seems to me to be easily doable. Then maybe afterwards the ability to add thumbnails from items not on the MP? 

Quote

 

Another Linden (who has since deleted his tweets) said he was doing this manually by putting #tags in folder names. When I suggested we have proper tags and object metadata (on twitter of all places) they suggested the I file a JIRA.

We bring things up at TPV developer meetings and get told no, its hard, we cant do that or that would be nice.

Accepted JIRA feature requests just get punted into the long grass and never seen again.

#hashtags have been in widespread use since 2007, can we get some, pretty please.

 

Yes, I've seen that in some of the meetings I been to even on a simple suggestion of adding something like an UNDO or Revert button for when playing around with dressing. Something that should be standard and is in almost any other 2 or 3d application except SL viewers. It is what convinced me that the Lab has no interest in the residents themselves and only will focus on those things that result in the rent or sale of a region. Screw anything that might make life easier for anyone not looking to rent or buy land. My posting is not with any serious thought they might consider such as I'm fairly convinced they are set to go handwringing to obsolesce, crying the code was too old and ignoring the fact that there were multiple options to update the viewer without the need to touch the core of it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes, it would be nice if IMVU allowed some ability to move inventory items to different categories or their ordering even within each, but as a default setup for those of us who are not highly organized residents, it does cut down substantially on the need to search as well as seeing quickly which hair, dress, shoes one would like to wear for today. That is what it seems to come down to when discussing inventory restructuring where those with organizing ability see no need for changing things vs those like myself (majority) haven't that talent. From a new resident perspective however I think it would help a lot with retaining some because I know from past dealings with new people, it is the source of one of the biggest frustrations.

I feel the exasperation with the image aspect especially when there isn't one at all forcing me to upload my own at 10L per though after doing some playing about this morning I came to realize that all the MP ads have a linked image at https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/ which have different sizes of pics depending on how the url is configured like this: https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/assets/30098728/view_large/SASHVEND.jpg?1630121706 where if you change the "view_large" to "thumbnail" generates a smaller pic: 

even if the ad itself doesn't show a thumbnail.  It at least allows one to see a picture without having to upload one to inventory. Maybe there is a way to script it.

 

Going to yet another webpage defeats the purpose of having the image in the folder with the outfit. And I am not paying to upload.

The best way to deal with it is for the creators to drop the paranoia and make their images copiable.

The MP does not have every item of clothing available on the grid on it.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Arwen Starchild]

I'd really like to see a mobile app with 3D view sometime this year. I feel like a good mobile app would bring in a lot of new players and it would be a great tool for existing residents by helping them keep in touch with SL friends on the go.

[Aduviri]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:28 AM, Bagnu said:

I haven't received that email from them, but I'm curious what features people would like to see added.

I personally would like to see a block that prevents the other party from seeing us, not just us not seeing the person we blocked!!!

I would also like to see this as well as block them from seeing our profiles. As a recent recipient of some targeted ridiculousness, this would make more sense to me, now.

 

[Bagnu]

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Going to yet another webpage defeats the purpose of having the image in the folder with the outfit. And I am not paying to upload.

The best way to deal with it is for the creators to drop the paranoia and make their images copiable.

The MP does not have every item of clothing available on the grid on it.

Why a creator would worry about their image being copyable makes no sense to me. They are selling their product, not their "picture" of it. 

[Bagnu]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:58 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It could still be quite easily gamed using map views and such. I'm not sure how radar works on blocked avatars either. Someone unaware that they are being stalked is unlikely to make use of other means to check for the presence of the stalker, whereas the stalker knows what they are doing.

I was thinking about what you've said about stalking today, and how different it can be for different people in terms of the fear it can produce. I IM'd my friend Katie (who's pics I've posted with me dancing with her as Sandor) as Swallow.  It was in in standard friendly fashion, the way I would address a male or female friend. Nothing sexual. She had forgotten that was me in a female AV.  She was not receptive, and made that clear. Highly clear.  She knows how to protect herself.  I certainly wouldn't want to be someone to go up against her.  And I'll never IM her as a female AV again. She prefers me male.

[Drayke Newall]

9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

IMVU assets are packaged very differently to SL ones, that entire platform is a lot simpler.

It would actually be very, very easy to create a graphical yet completely user controlled appearance editor taking into account SL's unique systems. Just need to do it within a system that already exists in SL. Trouble is from my discussions with Lindens even this is too hard for them, despite the system already existing and needing very little modifying.

For example:

1. Take the outfit window
2. add categories to it (such as hair, eyes, shirt, pants, etc) in addition to the outfit category and when clicked change the window to its selected category with items listed in picture form (like current outfit category)
3. make inventory system folders (cant delete) named same as outfit categories (such as hair, eyes, shirt, pants, etc)
4. link outfit categories with new outfit system folders in the inventory
5. make uploads to the outfit window FREE (this is key) i.e if outfit take picture button = true do not charge upload fee
6. uses same method employed for each category as outfit category now

So inventory name stays the same but each hair gets treated like the outfit folder in the inventory now, so when it is saved it gets placed in the user selected named folder with the user pic saved to that hair item button on the outfit window. 

Positives of this are:

1. makes graphical interface appearance editor everyone wants and needs without rewriting permissions or item coding.
2. allows the user to decide which hair (or whatever) they want in the category (downside of IMVU is that hair you no longer want to use makes the list longer where this wouldn't as you still manage it) 
3. user controls the pictures not the creator - removing need to try and attach an image to the item. This is also important in SL as things are modifiable. In SL allowing the user to take the picture means they can take a pic of a hair that fits x body or a white created hair the user modified themselves to blue etc.
4. Allows user to keep items where they want to in inventory and just uses a linked item in the outfit, hair, shirt etc folders.
5. Allows the user to name the item to what they want (whilst not renaming it physically) and find it easier within the appearance window as opposed to opening 20,000 folders/items named randomly in the convoluted inventory.

All of the above done within a system already in place in the viewer, fully customisable and manageable by the user (keeping in line with SL's modifiable and creator spirit).

Yet... all to hard apparently.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Bagnu said:

how different it can be for different people in terms of the fear it can produce.

This is really excellent point, and why I get annoyed when some contemptuously dismiss the concerns and/or real anxiety someone might feel over being stalked, or harassed, or abused publicly.

"Just TP home and block" will work for many of us, but everyone is different -- introverted, extroverted, with or without social anxieties -- and, of course, previous experience plays a part too. Someone who has been stalked or harassed or verbally abused in RL is far more likely to be triggered by the apparently "harmless" actions of an asshat here in SL.

I'm very glad to hear that you are sensitive to those kinds of differences.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

such as hair, eyes, shirt, pants

This doesn't work for me. There is no category for "boots."

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This doesn't work for me. There is no category for "boots."

And not all hair is called hair.  I searched for SHOES today in inventory and barely any of my 100s of pairs showed up.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And not all hair is called hair.  I searched for SHOES today in inventory and barely any of my 100s of pairs showed up.

This is unfortunately true. As well, I have a ton of items that are not easily or simply categorized. Hair with hats, hats without hair, sets of separate bangs and ponytails . . .

I have a pretty complicated system of folders that categorize my hair (of which I must by now have well over 150 styles) by length AND style, and sometimes colour, whether they are windblown, "edgy," "historical," etc. Most of them DO actually have ad textures, which obviously helps -- but a single category like "hair" just ain't gonna cut it.

I like the idea, sort of. I'm just not sure how helpful it would actually be.

[Bagnu]

15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is really excellent point, and why I get annoyed when some contemptuously dismiss the concerns and/or real anxiety someone might feel over being stalked, or harassed, or abused publicly.

"Just TP home and block" will work for many of us, but everyone is different -- introverted, extroverted, with or without social anxieties -- and, of course, previous experience plays a part too. Someone who has been stalked or harassed or verbally abused in RL is far more likely to be triggered by the apparently "harmless" actions of an asshat here in SL.

I'm very glad to hear that you are sensitive to those kinds of differences.

I just spent some time with her at an erotic art museum she took me to, and I reminded her of the incident, and she had a good laugh.

I can never know for sure which of the women I spend time with in SL are actually men , but I know some very strong women in RL, so I can't base anything on how they behave in that sense.  The situations we put ourselves in call for strong people either way.

[Eggy UwU]

all i gotta say is, i want MORE ATTACHMENT POINTS! 38 is simply not enough. at least 45?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

21 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I know some very strong women in RL, so I can't base anything on how they behave in that sense

I think that this is a very wise approach.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This doesn't work for me. There is no category for "boots."

*ques Nancy Sinatra, These Boots Were Made for Walking

[Bagnu]

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think that this is a very wise approach.

I believe you to be a woman, and I know you're quite strong!!!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Bagnu said:

I believe you to be a woman, and I know you're quite strong!!!

Thank you. But I suck at opening jars.

[Drayke Newall]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I like the idea, sort of. I'm just not sure how helpful it would actually be.

Well another positive of the system is that you can continue to use your current inventory system and not bother with the outfit window with newer categories, just like I assume you do now with the outfit window.

At least it gets a modern graphical interface in SL quickly and easily for those that want it and allows newer users to see it as a modern viewer.

But, you'll be happy because LL have already said no to the idea so it wont happen anyway

[Bagnu]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thank you. But I suck at opening jars.

I'm a man RL, and it's easy when you have our strength. The strength to tap around the lid with a butter knife, and then turn the lid...

Edited February 4, 2022 by Bagnu

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thank you. But I suck at opening jars.

7 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I'm a man RL, and it's easy when you have our strength. The strength to tap around the lid with a butter knife, and then turn the lid...

Or wear rubber gloves to give you extra grip. Girl power! 

[niko89bg]

17 hours ago, Kayla Suki said:

I'd really like to see a mobile app with 3D view sometime this year. I feel like a good mobile app would bring in a lot of new players and it would be a great tool for existing residents by helping them keep in touch with SL friends on the go.

Literally same. This is the only complaint that I have for SL at the moment. It's weird for me that such a big and old game still doesn't have an app for tablet users and such. The computer market is changing and I have a feeling that SL is not catching up with the current trends on how people interract with the internet which is a shame. 

[Katherine Heartsong]

Two things ... First, the Outfit pane matching the organization within your Inventory folder ... that means implementing/displaying sub-folders in the Outfit panel.

But, the second and my biggest ask?

Homestead ownership WITHOUT having to own a full sim.