Help! What is going on with my building?

[Kathlen Onyx]

I just bought this house yesterday and I love it BUT why is it doing this? Every time I log in it doesn't render the textures and I have to relog in order for the house to rez completely. I assume it's rezzed and my viewer just isn't showing it.  This is the only building I've bought that does this and the only one on the property that shows like this. All my other building show correctly.  PLEASE don't tell me it's the house because I love this house but if I have to relog every time to get it to show I might have to chuck it. 

I'm using Firestorm

This is the original

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/ROOST-Lake-Side-Basement-house/5494283

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Nick0678]

Sammie did you clear your cache?

[Kathlen Onyx]

23 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Sammie did you clear your cache?

Nope...Well sorta. After this started happening I did clear my "browser cache" in FS thinking that might fix it but it didn't do anything. As far as the inventory cache I did not clear that one. I just relogged and now it's back normal again. 

I should add that as long as I relog and stay on the region it's fine. It's when I TP somewhere and then back home that it goes wonky whether it's TPing once or many times.  Then I have to relog.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian
Added information

[KT Kingsley]

For stuff that doesn't render you can try turning wireframe mode on and off: Ctrl+Shift+R, twice.

This works for things the viewer knows about but has forgotten to draw, but not for things the server hasn't told the viewer about, possibly due to the information getting lost in transit.

[TT120]

That's been happening to me for the last week or so as well.  I found that if you right click on the thing, it appears.

[Sid Nagy]

I have that last week with a wall too.
Being patient or click a bit where it is supposed to be, helps too.
I hope it will not become another SL feature (meaning being way down on LL list because to difficult to fix)

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Right-clicking often restores invisible objects even without choosing any of the menu options.

I see this from time to time, I think it's just due to network issues, I can go weeks with no such problems then have several days of it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I just bought this house yesterday and I love it BUT why is it doing this? Every time I log in it doesn't render the textures and I have to relog in order for the house to rez completely. I assume it's rezzed and my viewer just isn't showing it.  This is the only building I've bought that does this and the only one on the property that shows like this. All my other building show correctly.  PLEASE don't tell me it's the house because I love this house but if I have to relog every time to get it to show I might have to chuck it. 

I'm using Firestorm

This is the original

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/ROOST-Lake-Side-Basement-house/5494283

 

 

 

Ah. Basement troubles. Contact the owner of Roost for help. Or try the one without the basement and see if it has issues. If it doesn't you know without doubt the problem is with the basement. It's not uncommon but it's been too long since I've helped someone with it to remember all the details.

 

Edit: It's an issue with the terrain editing limitations.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Kathlen Onyx]

10 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

Ah. Basement troubles. Contact the owner of Roost for help. Or try the one without the basement and see if it has issues. If it doesn't you know without doubt the problem is with the basement. It's not uncommon but it's been too long since I've helped someone with it to remember all the details.

 

Edit: It's an issue with the terrain editing limitations.

Well darn...I'm not going to try the one without the basement because they sell it as a totally separate house so my 3k house now would become 5k.  You'd think they would include the one without the basement but then I guess they'd make less money.

I suspect this does have something to do with it. The rezzer did not have a teraform option. I had to do it by hand and I suck at that so I probably didn't do it correctly but the basement is cleared. LOL

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Well darn...I'm not going to try the one without the basement because they sell it as a totally separate house so my 3k house now would become 5k.  You'd think they would include the one without the basement but then I guess they'd make less money.

I suspect this does have something to do with it. The rezzer did not have a teraform option. I had to do it by hand and I suck at that so I probably didn't do it correctly but the basement is cleared. LOL

Contact Roost. They need to know about the missing terraform option and you'll likely get an updated version pretty quickly that will solve the problem.

[Lindal Kidd]

Uh...rez boxes cannot automatically terraform a parcel for you. You need to place the house, then terraform the land yourself to suit.

[Kathlen Onyx]

15 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Uh...rez boxes cannot automatically terraform a parcel for you. You need to place the house, then terraform the land yourself to suit.

Oh ok...I thought when then "terraform" option was on and you rezzed the rezzer that it automatically lowered the land to fit the house. Now I"m confused as to what this terraform option even does.

[LittleMe Jewell]

41 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Uh...rez boxes cannot automatically terraform a parcel for you. You need to place the house, then terraform the land yourself to suit.

 

This is from the Wiki for the Caspertech Rez2 (https://wiki.casperdns.com/index.php/Rez2😞

Edited November 4, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rolig Loon]

I am not familiar with this specific product or the system that the builder is using, but I can imagine ways to script a rezzing system so that it will terraform a basement hole under your house during the setup sequence.  I've never seen one, but it should be fairly easy to script.

[Rowan Amore]

I did.own a home that had a device included that terraformed the area with the pool.  It was fun to watch.

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

This is from the Wiki for the Caspertech Rez2 (https://wiki.casperdns.com/index.php/Rez2😞

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy for a second. Anyway, Roost is a pretty popular house builder. I assume that if they wanted to update it to where it terraformed the basement they would have. Right now I already have the house in place and everything in it so I'm not about to pull it all apart and start over anyway.  It stopped doing it pretty soon after I made this post so I'm not sure that is/was the issue anyway.

[Lindal Kidd]

Wow, learned something new today. Those CasperTech techies...always something new!

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I just bought this house yesterday and I love it BUT why is it doing this? Every time I log in it doesn't render the textures and I have to relog in order for the house to rez completely. I assume it's rezzed and my viewer just isn't showing it.  This is the only building I've bought that does this and the only one on the property that shows like this. All my other building show correctly.  PLEASE don't tell me it's the house because I love this house but if I have to relog every time to get it to show I might have to chuck it. 

I'm using Firestorm

This is the original

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/ROOST-Lake-Side-Basement-house/5494283

 

 

Well, I have placed zillions of houses and the short answer is "SL does that". You can try clearing cache and relogging as everyone tells you to do -- hey, unplug your computer and plug it back in, too, if you feel like it, but usually it's an inherent problem. So, some suggestions:

1. Make sure you have clicked "finish" or "save" on the rezzer and that it is still not hanging there with the rezzing scripts in it.

2. Terraform on these rezzers does not work most of the time; sometimes it does; sometimes not --  it can work until it encounters an obstacle -- like yourself, an avatar, for example. It's great if someone scripts a system to make a 4 x 4 or 10 x 10 or whatever basement, but usually what people are hoping that it will do is completely flatten their land like a pancake. Mainland seldom flattens that way, so that even those other terraforming systems that crawls over the whole land can't do that, really. So don't make a box do your terraforming; terraform first unless of course you are on Bellisseria and Brown or some sort of Linden-zoned land where you can't do that. 

3. Sure, right click on the build; that can make it pop into place. But then you might have to keep doing that always.

4. Make sure you are standing on the same sim, in the same parcel. Sometimes when you are flying around to do a house, you are actually in another sim and the commands and views don't work as well across a sim seam.

5. Of course you can fix the LOD -- that advice that every single creator puts in a notecard as if it is the wisdom of the ages and will fix every problem -- but you already did that, right? Check it just in case; if you downloaded a new patch or switched viewers, it could have dropped out. So go into Developer Menu which you create from "my preferences" by checking boxes in "advanced" (on the regular SL viewer) and then type RenderVolumeLOD and put it to at least 4.00. But that didn't fix it, right? Because that's not the problem.

6. Sometimes an issue like this is caused by a texture that has the windows built into it (on very old houses especially) and you have to take the alpha off in edit because it's just messed up in the way it displays after 18 years. It's sad because you don't have windows to see out of then sometimes, but ok. This is less common with a mesh build which will not have pressed a texture on alpha into service on a prim in order to make a window.

7. I love that house. I have circled around it dozens of times wanting to buy it because I love the idea of a basement. But Mainland in particular is not meant for basements -- the terraform usually only goes up or down 4+/-. The landscaping is "baked in" by the Lindens. You might be able to make a 2 m basement there as it seems you did but then what happens, the build which I suppose is mesh on phantom with a physics shell, will bounce out. It will refuse to go in. You would think you could push a prim down into the ground, because you can sometimes. But when it's 300 prims or whatever. or pieces, it sometimes just won't go. To give you an idea: I have only one build in all my rentals with a true basement that functions and that's only because that sim just happened to have a deeper terraform capacity. Occasionally you get one. Or there are even those 40+/- sims. But by and large, the only way to make a basement is to first make an artificial hill and build around the house. Also not easy.

8. But here's why I didn't get that house (although now I may, since discovering this One Weird Trick): it has a case of what I call "the walkies". This may or may not be related to your partial view. That means when you walk around inside, your avatar bobs up and down. No, this is not about disabling camera constraints. No, this is not about changing the position of the view of the avatar. It's a physics problem caused by a bad physics upload or creation from the get-go. Some creators of houses understand this and try to fix it or at least stop selling old houses with these issues; others pretend that you can fix it other ways; but there is a thread on the forums that explains this more precisely -- they physics is haywire and makes the avatar annoyingly bob up and down.

This is a psychology problem, as well. Top designers who have sold houses for years and made millions find it very hard to admit that anything could be wrong with their physics. But those creators who understand this issue fix their houses, and it is night and day. On the old version you cannot place mesh items on mesh; they bounce and don't go back to inventory -- you have to relog to pop them into place. An annoying message appears -- "the owner of this land doesn't allow" -- and you ARE the owner or in the owner's group and still get it. It's not about it rezzing outside owned land, truly, as some Lindens believe (they don't live in houses). It's about they physics. WHEN you fix it, this goes away -- you rez mesh items with ease, you walk with ease normally with no bobbing and ducking.  I have now reached the point where I just don't buy houses from creators who don't fix their physics in their houses. Eventually they will get the idea and do this.

If you are just using the house as a kind of sculpture on your land to look pretty and decorate as a doll house (many people do), and your real life takes place in a skybox, where this issue may or may not happen, you might never care or notice these problems -- many people rez all their furniture on the lawn first and move it into the house and don't notice that mesh bounces inside the house.

But as someone who walks around houses a lot and sits inside them longer than their creators ever seem to have, as I decorate them, I can tell you I do care and I seldom tolerate it unless there are so many other nice features in the house and PS I know the tenants will not care as most people do not sit inside or walk through boxes often; they right click and sit on a chair; they right-click and work in the kitchen on poses, etc. Yet every 10th customer cares, they refuse because they think you have sabotaged them after they pay you money with silly "the owner of this land does not allow..." messages and they think you have stolen their gatcha prizes that disappeared. Thus, it's worth fixing.

9. Certain people will tell you that you can fix this annoying bobbing by taking the physics shape off and just selecting "no". You get a scary message but no Linden comes running and nothing happens. Such gurus believe ardently that merely changing the physics shape fixes the bobbing and ducking problem but guess what, it does not. It does not work. Because the physics is messed up from the creation itself.

Nor does unlinking the floor piece -- and such unlinking is sometimes risky if a build has sits built into it, it ruins the sits which can only be put back manually with sit targets which is a huge pain. Nor does placing a prim down over that unlinked floor with messed-up physics -- truly, I do know this having done it really zillions of zillions of time. It does not work because normally you have to turn that prim invisible so as not to look at plywood or a textured prim that is supposed to look good as a rug but doesn't. Because here's the thing; when you make a prim invisible, the system still thinks it sees that messed-up floor and nothing changes. It's funny that way.

So here's how you fool it: put the transparency not to 100% but 98%. That's not enough to lose the view of it as transparent, but enough to fool the system into thinking it does not see a mesh floor with physics problems. It now sees only a prim. You can now walk normally. It's glorious. Except...you have stairs, hallways to do -- lots of work. Usually if you just fix the living room and first floor rooms, however, you can live with it. (Yes, technically inanimate coded systems can see through things unlike human beings who can't, which is why "no occlusion" is there etc. but you can throw this obstacle in the way of its normal "seeing" and get it to stop the bobbing). 

10. This ought to be obvious but make sure the house is not straddling two parcels, one of which has "avatars can see me" and the other of which does not (this took me way too long to figure out). And remember, when flying around and working on a house, you yourself may now be on another parcel where either you see yourself or "avatars can see me" is turned ON, now looking into a parcel where it is turned OFF.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Kathlen Onyx]

Well the house is no modify even though the description says it is so I can't try the turning the floors to 98% transparency. I'm not going to worry about it too much. It's not doing it anymore and I am not getting the bobbing you are referring to. Yes, I checked all the other things you mentioned and they are fine.

I'll probably switch it out to something else but for now I'll live with it.

[Prokofy Neva]

41 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Well the house is no modify even though the description says it is so I can't try the turning the floors to 98% transparency. I'm not going to worry about it too much. It's not doing it anymore and I am not getting the bobbing you are referring to. Yes, I checked all the other things you mentioned and they are fine.

I'll probably switch it out to something else but for now I'll live with it.

It's not the floors you turn to 98% transparency. It's the prim you put over the floors which you can put to 98% transparency, it being your own prim.

Houses (and not only houses) often say they are on "no modify" but as you likely know, that's because the script in them is on no-modify. But if you isolate a piece it can be on modify and then you can delink it.

It's more effective to do that after you delink the mesh floor with the problem first, but that's not vital; the prim floor over the bad mesh should work if on 98% transparency.

What can I tell you. You will get the bobbing. Soon. If you don't, great. Perhaps the merchant fixed it since I was last in the store because there were complaints in the reviews about this and other issues and they responded to them. Perhaps you just don't generate this phenomenon with whatever set-up you have but I and my tenants do constantly so I constantly have to fight it.

I'd just be interested to know if you a) get the basement to work b) get it to work without any disappearance/bobbing issues even without the basement. Then I will buy it eventually.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Well the house is no modify even though the description says it is

That really, really should be taken up with the creator. It's probably a simple oversight somewhere in packaging because no SL structure should ever be sold no-mod, and I don't think any creators still sell such things intentionally. But if it's described as having Modify permission, it really must have been an error.

To the original problem: I'm not following how this tricky "sometimes rendered, sometimes not" behavior could be related to the basement. (Or maybe the basement problem was always intended to be a separate observation?) For the rendering thing, I would just try a different viewer for a while and see if it makes a difference. If so, then a totally fresh re-install of Firestorm might help. If not, then yeah, something (sim or network) is preventing object information getting to both viewers.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

That really, really should be taken up with the creator. It's probably a simple oversight somewhere in packaging because no SL structure should ever be sold no-mod, and I don't think any creators still sell such things intentionally. But if it's described as having Modify permission, it really must have been an error.

To the original problem: I'm not following how this tricky "sometimes rendered, sometimes not" behavior could be related to the basement. (Or maybe the basement problem was always intended to be a separate observation?) For the rendering thing, I would just try a different viewer for a while and see if it makes a difference. If so, then a totally fresh re-install of Firestorm might help. If not, then yeah, something (sim or network) is preventing object information getting to both viewers.

Roost homes are normally mod. I'm 99% certain it's simply an oversight error. Easy to fix and push out an update so quick and painless for the customer. 

 

See #2 to answer your question about the basement.

 

 

And if you want the link to the thread: http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/8/7c/193398/1.html

Edited November 5, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Roost homes are normally mod. I'm 99% certain it's simply an oversight error. Easy to fix and push out an update so quick and painless for the customer. 

Yeah, earlier I took a field trip to Roost's showcase region and indeed all the other rezzed structures are showing Next Owner Permissions of Copy+Mod, but this model (and its boathouse) are showing Transfer only, even though both the in-world vendor and the Marketplace listing show the standard Copy+Mod permissions. What I find more than passing strange is that this model has been around since forever (like 2015 or something) and apparently fairly popular, yet it still has this strange packaging error. It nonetheless should be taken up with the creator to get it fixed because it just makes no sense.

I'm still thinking .the basement problem (with which I think I'm pretty familiar, being a Mainland creature myself) is unrelated to the problem in the original post in which the very same instance of the structure sometimes appears and sometimes doesn't, depending on TP and login sequence (I guess). Nonetheless, that's a great link to some advice from Ceera Murakami—perennially helpful—about how to dig a basement (or not).

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm still thinking .the basement problem (with which I think I'm pretty familiar, being a Mainland creature myself) is unrelated to the problem in the original post in which the very same instance of the structure sometimes appears and sometimes doesn't, depending on TP and login sequence (I guess). Nonetheless, that's a great link to some advice from Ceera Murakami—perennially helpful—about how to dig a basement (or not).

All I can tell you is it is the exact same issue I ran across with a house and basement and the result was the same "exploded image". Once I got the terraforming done right it was no longer an issue.

[Kathlen Onyx]

It stopped doing it and the basement works fine. I am chalking it up to SL being glitchy yesterday.