Do you think people look down on "traditional" femininity?

[Gopi Passiflora]

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/12/05/americans-see-society-placing-more-of-a-premium-on-masculinity-than-on-femininity/

I found this article on the matter that suggests masculinity is more "respected" than femininity.

[Orwar]

   Well, if the contents of that link are to be believed - not really, just 11% of the people responding to the survey do.

[Ceka Cianci]

Honestly, I don't have the luxury of the time it takes to worry about it.. hehehe

[VaelFaye]

Seeing as the linked article is four years old (with data taken in 2017 as well), the results could likely be different now.

~Vael

[Amanda Crisp]

The topic is WAY more complicated than I would be comfortable generalizing about.

People from either urban or rural backgrounds are likely to have vastly different life experiences informing their opinion and that might be much more of a divide than political ideology.

Maybe better questions would be; “What IS masculine and feminine behavior and are we beginning to move we beyond mere gender as a determiner of behavioral norm?”

[Nick0678]

Which people...what country... with what traditions and beliefs?

(there are 8 billions of us on this planet)

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Nick0678

[Ayeleeon]

Pick any viewpoint you want, and you can find people who hold to it, and some article that says most people do. I don't worry about what most people do. I just try to do the right thing and to be tolerant of those I come in contact with.

[Bree Giffen]

6 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Which people...what country... with what traditions and beliefs?

(there are 8 billions of us on this planet)

The title says Americans which means U.S. residents in the context of the article. 

I would think that if the world was surveyed the gap would widen with more people looking up to masculinity and down on femininity. 

[Nick0678]

2 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

The title says Americans which means U.S. residents in the context of the article. 

I would think that if the world was surveyed the gap would widen with more people looking up to masculinity and down on femininity. 

Oh OK so this post i's just for the people located in the United States because the title says ..

.. but yeah now i noticed that the hyperlink in the first post says americans and by americans it speaks of citizens of the United States .

(didn't even bother to read it as it only refers to a small number of people)

[BjorJlen]

2 hours ago, Ayeleeon said:

Pick any viewpoint you want, and you can find people who hold to it, and some article that says most people do. I don't worry about what most people do. I just try to do the right thing and to be tolerant of those I come in contact with.

   Quoted for truth...

   It also basically depends on what the "definition" of "femininity" is to someone as well, especially in today's times. Mine might be different then her's, or your's (generically), or even to a person from another country who is visiting America. Heck, there is also the generic definition of the term as well to consider...

Femininity is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with women and girls. Although sociologists think of femininity as socially constructed, there is also widespread recognition that some behaviors considered feminine are influenced by both cultural factors and biological factors.

   Basically it all come's down to a individual's viewpoint, and while I am sure there is a general consensus on the term in today's times, imho only woman should be the deciding factor on the subject. After all, if you don't have the right "parts" to begin with, how can you walk a mile in their shoes? When a man can give birth to a baby, then we as men can define with absolute certancy (spelling?) what femininity is (besides a opinion of course)...
   But then again, what do I know... I am a man lol...

Peace...

[Orwar]

46 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I would think that if the world was surveyed the gap would widen with more people looking up to masculinity and down on femininity. 

   I don't expect so.

   In China and India for example, which are two of the most populous countries on the planet, the common view may not be the same as in the US or western Europe, but people probably don't consider themselves to be 'looking down' on women who adhere to the traditional roles of femininity - in fact, in China they're instead heckling young, unmarried, career-focused women (Sheng nü - 'leftover women').

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Orwar said:

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

I would think that if the world was surveyed the gap would widen with more people looking up to masculinity and down on femininity. 

   I don't expect so.

   In China and India for example, which are two of the most populous countries on the planet, the common view may not be the same as in the US or western Europe, but people probably don't consider themselves to be 'looking down' on women who adhere to the traditional roles of femininity - in fact, in China they're instead heckling young, unmarried, career-focused women (Sheng nü - 'leftover women').

Yes but that's not because society necessarily values women more -- rather it's because they don't want women to usurp what they feel should be the man's role, one they deem as more important. So they heckle her in an attempt to force her back into "her place".

When men wanted women to stay pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen during the 50's in the U.S. it wasn't because they valued her role -- it was about having control over where women could exist. They didn't want competition from them outside the home.

The world, generally, still does not value the work women do -- housework, nurturing family members. This is reflected in Social Security payments -- work outside the home is used as criteria for highest payments.
Forcefully winning over others, shows of strength, and domination are more highly valued than cooperative efforts in our disgustingly patriarchal (stratified into levels with those at the top pitted against lower levels) world.

Of course I'm speaking generally when I say "society" wants this or that. Not every person in a society ascribes to stereotypes, but enough do so that it becomes a strong pattern within that society. 

[BjorJlen]

   Ya know, this reminds me of the time when I asked my Father what people thought of both men and women "back in the day", and you know what he said? He said "Women were viewed as sex objects, while Men were viewed as success objects". My Sister whole heartedly agreed with him. It saddens me to see that even in today's times, that viewpoint often applies to some people...

Peace...

[Bree Giffen]

48 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I don't expect so.

   In China and India for example, which are two of the most populous countries on the planet, the common view may not be the same as in the US or western Europe, but people probably don't consider themselves to be 'looking down' on women who adhere to the traditional roles of femininity - in fact, in China they're instead heckling young, unmarried, career-focused women (Sheng nü - 'leftover women').

You're right. I was confused. I think people who are for pro-masculinity are also pro-femininity. Like the Taliban.

[Lindal Kidd]

3 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

You're right. I was confused. I think people who are for pro-masculinity are also pro-femininity. Like the Taliban.

Which perfectly illustrates the point I was about to make: There is no universal definition of femininity (or masculinity). Since we can't agree on a definition, there's really no point arguing about it. 😅

[Madelaine McMasters]

I was home schooled by parents who, in 1970, were more gender-blind than most people I meet today. My question whether "engineer" is a gender in Gopi's other thread was only semi tongue-in-cheek. I was raised to gauge people primarily by what they make of their potential and opportunity, not by appearance and behavior.

The statistics in Gopi's link show declining self assessment as very masculine/feminine with increasing level of education. That's encouraging, maybe?

When I entered college in 1985, 16% of US women had college degrees, 23.1% of men, and women had just overtaken men in the earning of bachelor's degrees. In 2020, 38.3% of US women and 36.7% of men had college degrees. Women surpassed men as the primary earners of college degrees in 2014. This year, college entrance figures show women out enrolling men 60% to 40%. The trend is accelerating and definitions of masculinity may be a significant and growing factor.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/young-men-college-decline-gender-gap-higher-education/620066/

These days, one could be forgiven for wondering if masculinity (testosterone) is toxic at any level.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters

[Ayeleeon]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:29 PM, Gopi Passiflora said:

I found this article on the matter that suggests masculinity is more "respected" than femininity.

Is it actually "masculinity" being favored over "femininity" or are traditional male roles favored over traditional female roles? If the second is true then does our society suffer because these neglected roles are essential to a healthy society? Just because a person believes a woman is best suited to run a household, and train the next generation, does not mean that person looks down on her, if these roles are held in high regard then she is held in high regard as well.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Ayeleeon

[Nick0678]

39 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

Is it actually "masculinity" being favored over "femininity" or are traditional male roles favored over traditional female roles? If the second is true then does our society suffer because these neglected roles are essential to a healthy society? Just because a person believes a woman is best suited to run a household, and train the next generation, does not mean that person looks down on her, if these roles are held in high regard then she is held in high regard as well.

I don't know man, whenever i am troubled with such thoughts booty is always the right answer.

[Leahndra]

3 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

I don't know man, whenever i am troubled with such thoughts booty is always the right answer.

Don't try so hard Nick Having a good booty says nothing about a woman being feminine. It's just an ass. 

[Leahndra]

59 minutes ago, Ayeleeon said:

Is it actually "masculinity" being favored over "femininity" or are traditional male roles favored over traditional female roles? If the second is true then does our society suffer because these neglected roles are essential to a healthy society? Just because a person believes a woman is best suited to run a household, and train the next generation, does not mean that person looks down on her, if these roles are held in high regard then she is held in high regard as well.

I like this  and agree and would like to add that feminine Women never have been looked down at by Men (in our Western World!). Feminine Women are mostly looked down at by not so feminine Women.

[Nick0678]

40 minutes ago, Leahndra said:

Don't try so hard Nick Having a good booty says nothing about a woman being feminine. It's just an ass. 

Well.. i don't know about that..

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

I don't know man, whenever i am troubled with such thoughts booty is always the right answer.

And there's the problem, yes? If you look at the trappings of US masculinity, thought is deemed troublesome.

[Nick0678]

16 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

And there's the problem, yes? If you look at the trappings of US masculinity, thought is deemed troublesome.

Yeah .. well.. i don't know, don't have any male friends from the U.S, only females.

[Orwar]

1 hour ago, Leahndra said:

It's just an ass. 

[Luna Bliss]

19 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Which perfectly illustrates the point I was about to make: There is no universal definition of femininity (or masculinity). Since we can't agree on a definition, there's really no point arguing about it. 😅

A pedantic argument is no argument at all. There's no need to have an exact definition accepted by all to recognize we indeed have stereotypes influencing many of us that are detrimental to our wellbeing.

One of the most egregious stereotypes, and causing the most harm, is the stereotype which overvalues the 'strong, invincible, aggressive, always-in control-male'. Scientific studies in the social sciences demonstrate that many males feel they must be emotionally strong and inhibit feelings of vulnerability and weakness. But when we deny a fundamental part of ourselves and refuse to face it, when we can't admit and deal with the sadness, pain, and feelings of weakness that are naturally a part of existence, then the repressed emotion tends to come out in destructive ways -- denied pain and vulnerability manifests in excessive anger and aggressiveness as a coping mechanism. This is the source of toxic masculinity.

Of course women can contribute to the reinforcement of this stereotype when they don't respect men who cry or show their weakness. We've made major strides in allowing men to express and accept their vulnerable side, but we've got a long way to go.

Boys don't cry? Well yes they do, and they should.