Let's Hate Windows 11

[Maryanne Solo]

Oh gawd here we go, downloaded the check your PC for Win11 use thingy.....
"Your recently built thermonuclear workstation does not support Win 11" 🙄 hisssssss
-> TPM 2.0 <-.
I'm sure it will run Trusted Platform Module 2.0 I just don't have it enabled.
I'm pretty sure TPM 2.0 security & networking features are absolutely critical in 2021
So that companies we know and trust - Like Microsoft 😂🤪 don't invade our personal space or privacy
and we can have the latest youth abusing, scammy, social media abominations at our fingertips.

[Chic Aeon]

Well Windows did an update (not sure if it was for Win11) and I am completely locked out of my desktop. I have reset my pin three times. They KNOW I have a new pin as I tried to put the "latest one" in again and they said I needed a totally new one ----- but they won't let me log in with it. Keep going in circles.  

 

OBVIOUSLY the have a mess going on. Hopefully they will fix that soon.  Until then not much typing from me. Notebook keyboard not all that friendly

[Qie Niangao]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:46 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

But this makes at least three times the MBR vs. GPT issue has caused someone problems, that I know of. Me, that poor guy, and another mention. You know what they say: "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action."

Ha. Much to my surprise, you can add me to the list. Spouse and I got all new computer parts and I set them up at the same time, as close to identically as I could at the time; he got the i7 and my hand-me-down GTX 660, I got the i5 and a shiny new RTX 3060, both with identical M.2 SSDs. When I installed Win10 on each of them, mine got GPT, his got MBR. I have no idea why.

So after my Win11 upgrade went without a hitch, I finally got round to his, very surprised to find that MBR-partitioned SSD. On the plus side, it was an easy fix in this case, following TechRepublic's instructions. That hasn't gotten me out of the woods yet, though, because it appears the old GTX 660 doesn't have a UEFI vBIOS, so whenever I try to turn off Compatibility Support Mode, the machine boots halfway then re-enables CSM and reboots itself. There is rumored to be a UEFI version of that manufacturer's vBIOS, but that's going to take more follow-through than I've been able to muster yet.

[Teagan Tobias]

 

I find this rather funny that one of our fairly new Windows 10 PC does not support Windows 11.

ASUS ROG B-450-F Gaming main board,

32 GB Memory,

ASUS GTX 1070,

Ryzen 9 3900-X 12 core CPU.

Had turned off automatic updates so 11 would not install uninvited, guess that wont happen, LOL.

I have no idea what is lacking and quite frankly I’m not interested, all I know is the PC can’t get windows 11 and I’m okay with that.

Oh, and not a geek, but had no trouble switching to Linux on my PC and it runs like a champ. (Linux Mint Cinnamon)

 

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, Teagan Tobias said:

Oh, and not a geek, but had no trouble switching to Linux on my PC and it runs like a champ. (Linux Mint Cinnamon)

Welcome to the Linux club.

[Ted McGregor]

20 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Welcome to the Linux club.

Don' t listen to him.. he' s only running a 5.0.0. kernel .. You are best welcomed by 5.14.2 kernel-users like me ...  

And as a VER fan I need to say .. what a horrid picture , @Nick0678

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by TDD123

[Ted McGregor]

 

[Ardy Lay]

Dunno.  Windows 11 working fine.  It's not even picking a fight with the Linux desktop sitting beside it.

[Nick0678]

5 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Don' t listen to him.. he' s only running a 5.0.0. kernel .

Ahh yes my wonderful 5.0.0.23 and in case you haven't noticed i am also running good old faithful 18.04.3 as a live iso.

(No HDD installations for my boy just straight to RAM from an SDCard regardless of which PC.)

Now in regards to the photo.... Enjoy

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Nick0678

[JeromFranzic]

Windows 11 is working just fine for me. Did a clean install using my Win 10 key, and it didn't mess with the Ubuntu Studio LTS or Android-x86 partitions on my main daily driver laptop. GRUB2 had no issues updating and picking up Win11 on my machine. But I'm glad it's listed as Windows Boot Manager in GRUB2 haha... 

Edited October 15, 2021 by JeromFranzic
'heh? what did i say before'

[Wulfie Reanimator]

The only problem I have with [insert operating system] is the public testing period that's gonna last a couple years after release. I have enough headaches with my current systems, I'll move over after the biggest ones are already fixed on the next one.

[JeromFranzic]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:08 PM, Frankie Antonioni said:

Is there away to download Windows 11 to a virtual machine? If I can, I might try it out.

You can grab an ISO from the Microsoft site. Of course you need a valid product key to fully activate it.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11

[JeromFranzic]

Anyway... here's my Ubuntu Studio LTS desktop, on 20.04.3. Nothing fancy here, but it definitely runs faster and more efficiently than 11 or 10. I have Black Dragon installed here for my amusement. (Honestly that works OK with Wine... until some random segfault or stack overflow takes it down.)

 

[Chic Aeon]

I am seriously considering blocking Win11 :D.  I did that with another version (Win8?) or maybe two versions LOL; there were some I just skipped over until I got a new computer.  I never really had any issues and I don't keep important info on my computer as in banking etc.  The last windows big change that MADE ME have a lock screen when no one else uses my machine really pissed me off (not the Canadian kind although a drink would have been good at the time). 

 

 In fact my bank is changing its "product like" (who knew banks had product lines?) and I will be paying $5 US a month so that I don't have to do the banking online . 

 

GEEZ.   

[Xocel]

With all the people bringing up the other (better) option of Linux, and the concern of voice chat issues I thought I'd add to this thread by posting instructions on how to get both voice and notifications to work for Firestorm on different distributions. These instructions are also in the pics section on my profile if anyone needs. The instructions are for using the native Linux version for SLvoice, not the WINE one. Here goes:

 

Debian/Ubuntu based (Debian, Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, Linux Mint, Elementary OS, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Zorin OS etc.)

Voice:
In order to get voice chat to work, there are 32-bit dependencies.
Open a terminal and type in the following set of commands:
sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386

sudo apt update

sudo apt install sudo apt install libidn11:i386 libstdc++6:i386 gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio:i386

Notifications:

In order for notifications to show up when enabled you need to install Growl for Linux with the following:
sudo apt install growl-for-linux

Fedora

Voice:
In order to get voice chat to work on Fedora, you will need to install some 32-bit dependencies that voice chat relies on. Before doing these steps you may require the RPM Fusion repositories enabled
sudo dnf install libstdc++.i686 libidn1.34.i686 libidn2.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-bad-free.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-bad-free-extras.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-base.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-good.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-good-extras.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-ugly.i686 gstreamer1-plugins-ugly-free.i686

Notifications:
For notifications, you will need to install Growl for Linux:
sudo dnf copr enable xenithorb/growl-for-linux -y

sudo dnf install growl-for-linux growl-for-linux-display-notify -y

These instructions work as of Fedora 34.

OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

Voice:
In order to get Firestorm voice chat to work on OpenSUSE tumbleweed some 32-bit dependencies need to be installed, along with a symlink to direct it to the correct version of libidn (Firestorm tries to look for an old version that doesn't exist on Tumbleweed). This may also require the packman repository to be enabled before these commands work.
sudo zypper install libidn12-32bit libidn2-0-32bit libstdc++6-32bit gstreamer-plugins-bad-32bit gstreamer-plugins-base-32bit gstreamer-plugins-ugly-32bit alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit

sudo ln -s /lib/libidn.so.12 /lib/libidn.so.11

Notifications:
Growl for Linux also needs to be installed for notifications to work.
wget https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/utilities/openSUSE_Factory/x86_64/growl-for-linux-0.7.0-4.102.x86_64.rpm

sudo zypper install ./growl-for-linux-0.7.0-4.102.x86_64.rpm

Solus OS

Voice:
Solus OS is a nice Linux OS that's indended entirely for desktop use, and is beginner friendly for most things. Some pieces of Firestorm will need extra set up before they work. As with Tumbleweed there is no libidn.so.11, so link that to libidn.so.12 and it will work without issue.
Voice chat needs these commands typed in to work:
sudo eopkg install pulseaudio-32bit alsa-plugins-32bit alsa-lib-32bit libstdc++-32bit libidn2-32bit libidn-32bit gst-plugins-good gst-plugins-base-32bit gstreamer-1.0-32bit

sudo ln -s /usr/lib32/libidn.so.12 /usr/lib32/libidn.so.11

Notifications:
Growl notifications needs to be built from source code, using these commands to grab the developer tools to build it, then grab the pieces needed to make the program, then build and install it:
sudo eopkg install -c system.devel

sudo eopkg install linux-current-headers openssl-devel curl-devel libgtk-2-devel sqlite3-devel dbus-glib-devel libnotify-devel

wget https://github.com/mattn/growl-for-linux/releases/download/0.8.5/growl-for-linux-0.8.5.tar.gz

tar xvzf growl-for-linux-0.8.5.tar.gz

cd growl-for-linux-0.8.5

./configure make

sudo make install

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Xocel

[Cecilia Dallas]

So quick dumb question from a user who runs macOS at work and has access to a really decent gaming PC at home and know next to nothing about Linux (except maybe running Ubuntu a few years ago to experiment) ... Do the various Linux builds of some of the viewers (esp my viewer, Firestorm) run SL with any performance improvements over Windows 10 or 11?

Edited October 18, 2021 by Kittycat Kiyori

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 hour ago, Xocel said:

With all the people bringing up the other (better) option of Linux, and the concern of voice chat issues I thought I'd add to this thread by posting instructions on how to get both voice and notifications to work for Firestorm on different distributions. These instructions are also in the pics section on my profile if anyone needs. The instructions are for using the native Linux version for SLvoice, not the WINE one. Here goes:

Can you put that on Hollerith cards for me?

[Xocel]

24 minutes ago, Giselle Kiyori said:

So quick dumb question from a user who runs macOS at work and has access to a really decent gaming PC at home and know next to nothing about Linux (except maybe running Ubuntu a few years ago to experiment) ... Do the various Linux builds of some of the viewers (esp my viewer, Firestorm) run SL with any performance improvements over Windows 10 or 11?

As somebody who is using a Radeon GPU, yes I do notice quite a difference. Firestorm runs at about 10 to 20 more FPS on the average for me than running it on Windows 10 on the same hardware. This is for the following reasons:

• Second Life viewers (including Firestorm) use OpenGL. Microsoft (who makes windows) and AMD (who make Radeon) treat OpenGL as a second class citizen it seems. Last time I tried to use the Radeon Adrenaline software on Windows to record it would not even allow me to record a game if it used OpenGL instead of DirectX or Vulkan.
• The Radeon drivers are open source, and are included in the Linux kernel itself. It being open source means this "unofficial" version of the driver (worked on by Linux foundation, not AMD), along with the open source OpenGL stack that works with it (Mesa) has had numerous volunteers working on it and cleaning up the code to make it run better.

For Nvidia folks you may not notice as much of a difference, Nvidia does not open source their drivers so you can only use the Linux driver from them. But at least the main OS won't treat OpenGL as a second class citizen, so you may still notice some improvement.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Xocel

[Fritigern Gothly]

1 hour ago, Giselle Kiyori said:

So quick dumb question from a user who runs macOS at work and has access to a really decent gaming PC at home and know next to nothing about Linux (except maybe running Ubuntu a few years ago to experiment) ... Do the various Linux builds of some of the viewers (esp my viewer, Firestorm) run SL with any performance improvements over Windows 10 or 11?

I am not aware of any benchmark tests which were performed on the different viewers, let alone the different viewers under different operating systems.

What I do know that my 1st generation intel i7, 12Gb RAM with a GTX 660 performs better than my partner's 3rd gen i5, 8Gb RAM and a GTX1080. I run Linux and my partner runs Win10. We both use the same version of Firestorm.

When I say that it performs better I mean that my FPS is better in the same locations and with the same settings. Based on the system specifications alone, I'd say we should get roughly equal performance, perhaps my performance should be worse than the Windows PC but my FPS is higher and the general feel is smoother.

This is the best answer I can give you. One comparison is hardly a resentative and reliable basis to decide which IS better, but at the very least it makes me happy I chose Linux as OS  

Edited October 18, 2021 by Fritigern Gothly
Some typos fixed

[Cecilia Dallas]

Nvidia 3070 here.

[Extrude Ragu]

I am sure Linux users will appreciate the advice, but just looking at that list of commands kind of illustrates my point.

If you're a linux developer you know what all those commands do, you have the time and resources to mess with them when inevitably you type something wrong. I've worked with enough Linux servers to know that the list of terminal commands very rarely if ever just works without some tweak or something.

But most people are not linux developers, and really when they clicked install on your program, all of these things should have been sorted out for them. They should not need to launch a terminal and type in things in a computer language only some people understand. Essentially it is like asking the user to do the dirty work of the programmer.

[Ted McGregor]

17 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

But most people are not linux developers, and really when they clicked install on your program, all of these things should have been sorted out for them.

You don't need to be a developer for that. I'm not ; couldn't code if my life depended on it, but one needs certain knowledge about controlling your PC without a GUI in either environment. Which inevitably also goes for users of Windows : command line interpretation is not essential , yet very strongly advised. But not always necessary.

For instance : you could bypass all the lines that were said about native voice chat , install flatpaks on your Linux system and easily install the complete Firestormviewer ( including a working voice solution ) from Flathub.org .. 

If you absolutely don't WANT to know what you are doing and prefer the out-of-the-box experience, you indeed should stick to Windows only. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by TDD123

[Qie Niangao]

Meh. The GUI for Linux is a combination of stackexchange, askubuntu, and a sudo-run emacs browsing the system configuration directories.

And it's all exactly as clumsy as Windows system administration—for example, try getting filesharing set up correctly and securely in either environment; then try again in a week to fix what you did wrong, and repeat until the next system update when it all may change but you'll only know when it breaks (if you're lucky), your machine is attacked, or you read all the security bulletins. (But you can't read all the security bulletins because there's not enough time in the day, never mind having time to do anything else.)

Never scratch the surface. It's all dragons down there.

[Xocel]

3 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If you're a linux developer you know what all those commands do...

....They should not need to launch a terminal and type in things in a computer language only some people understand. Essentially it is like asking the user to do the dirty work of the programmer.

I'm not a developer either, and yet I do know what those commands I pasted are doing. I haven't written a single program in my life. And none of these commands are actually doing the work of a programmer or writing any programs. But rather, they are using a command line interface to actually run programs. Most of these commands are basically telling a program to run which will download and install things off the internet. The different distributions of Linux each have a different program to do this (e.g. apt, dnf, eopkg, zypper). These programs are called package managers, and Windows and Mac has package managers too. I'm just running them by command line just like normal people (who aren't programmers) used to do in the DOS days.

This command line route is how I prefer to install things regardless of if I'm on Windows, Mac, or Linux. For example installing Firefox on all three of them would be a similar command for me.

Windows:

winget install firefox

Mac OS:

brew install firefox

Linux:

sudo apt install firefox

 

You do not need to be a programmer to run command line programs. And in the above examples you are saving yourself a lot of time and being more secure. You don't need to open up a web browser and look for some random website (which may or may not be the right site to download something), download a .exe, .dmg, or .deb file, click it to install, then remove the .exe or whatnot sitting around on your system. Instead the command line based program does the downloading, installing, and cleaning up after.

Even if you are using Windows or Mac I suggest learning at least some basic command line usage. The command line is here to stay, and will always be more powerful than clicking around on stuff.

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Xocel

[Ted McGregor]

25 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's all dragons down there.

You don' t say ...

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by TDD123