New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Prokofy Neva]

Patch has been quoted with an update that Ryan Schultz has blogged about but I can't find it on the site here. Anyway, it adds some clarifications and assurances.

[JasminaDayspring]

I can't believe how many sheep are agreeing with this garbage. Don't you see what's happening? It's a snowball going down hill... What else will they take from us? Adult sims? The ability to go wherever you want, do whatever you want, be whatever you want on sl? Might as well just shut it all down. It all comes down to choice...and they are taking it from us. 

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Patch has been quoted with an update that Ryan Schultz has blogged about but I can't find it on the site here. Anyway, it adds some clarifications and assurances.

I don't see a Linden FAQ either, but the Patch quote in Ryan Schultz' blog is from a post to this thread.

[JasminaDayspring]

deleted

Edited August 3, 2021 by JasminaDayspring

[Yuki Suki]

8 minutes ago, Coranados said:

Are you insane LL? It is our choice of whether or not we want to spend our money on something that is totally random. It is our right to choose how we spend our hard earned money. This is literally akin to outlawing casinos everywhere and every which way in the real world. This is a power you should NOT have at all as it is basically deciding for us how we should be spending our money. If we want fat packs, we'll buy freaking fat packs. If we want to take a chance and gamble then we will do so. Simple as that. It's a matter of choice. To all those who say that THIS is a good idea, NO! IT IS NOT! This is literally stealing away our ability to choose how we spend our own hard-earned money and at the end of the day, is only the beginning of someone being able to take away all of our choices on Second Life at the end of the day.

 

TL;DR: If you wanna take a chance on something, then you will. If not, buy the fatpack. CHOICE PEOPLE! EVERYONE HAS ONE AND NO ONE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR ANYONE ELSE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT!

Why stop there? To be fair, while you are at it, should we also start allowing the same freedom of choice for griefters, copy-bots and creepy pedo to do whatever they like too?

Also, not all gacha has fatpacks.

[Zoey Winsmore]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Zoey Winsmore It's unlikely there was any "phone call from the Netherlands" or any other EU-based event. A phone call from Elizabeth Warren's office, sure.

YOU obviously do NOT have a sense of HUMOR.

[Scum Pond]

1 minute ago, JasminaDayspring said:

I can't believe how many sheep are agreeing with this garbage. Don't you see what's happening? It's a snowball going down hill... What else will they take from us? Adult sims? The ability to go wherever you want, do whatever you want, be whatever you want on sl? Might as well just shut it all down. It all comes down to choice...and they are taking it from us. 

You already can't go where you want, sim bans and gaming sims are a thing. You already can't do what you want, agepl*y restrictions are a thing. Adult sims? Need to verify.

 

But yeah let's just shut it down. Turn the lights off the world is over.

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 minutes ago, Coranados said:

 

 

TL;DR: If you wanna take a chance on something, then you will. If not, buy the fatpack. CHOICE PEOPLE! EVERYONE HAS ONE AND NO ONE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR ANYONE ELSE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT!

Well, in this case I'd say the entity that ultimately has the legal and financial responsibility for Second Life does have that authority.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Zoey Winsmore said:

YOU obviously do NOT have a sense of HUMOR.

I guess my own humour in that line flew right over your head, then.

[Chris Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, JasminaDayspring said:

I can't believe how many sheep are agreeing with this garbage. Don't you see what's happening? It's a snowball going down hill... What else will they take from us? Adult sims? The ability to go wherever you want, do whatever you want, be whatever you want on sl? Might as well just shut it all down. It all comes down to choice...and they are taking it from us. 

Blame the laws that politicians pass. 

[Shadowed Luik]

27 minutes ago, rainbow Fairymeadow said:

Thanks for the answe  I am just trying to figure out WHY they are modfiable in the first place.. help me out

I'll give you a personal reason for why i mostly shy away from items i can't mod. I do a lot of photography in SL. Items look different under different lighting. If the creator leaves something full bright or has the shininess cranked way up, I prefer being able to adjust that to suit what i am taking a shot of. Same with color - I dont need to be able to recolor an item, but sometimes being able to darken it a bit to look better in a picture makes the difference. with jewelry, sometimes I can get a better fit by modding it myself rather than using the built in resizers.

[Mollymews]

16 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Licensing by LL to be compliant with a carnival law is not a big deal, small and large entities do it all the time in communities, 4-H clubs and little towns.

yes they can. The question for Linden is, why would they bother to do this? 

each game and game operator has to be licensed. The next question for Linden is: Who is the game operator? Linden or the resident ?

which is an important question, as a provision of the penal code is that a premise owner commits a misdemeanor when they allow other people to run unlicensed games on their premises

ps. I did say that some lawsuits have been dismissed (like the Apple one you mention) and some (like one against EA) have been referred to mediation

i did also say that I think the argument raised by the plaintiffs in these cases was immaterial. Apple successfully defended their case by arguing that lootboxes weren't gambling as the plaintiffs alleged. The judge agreed with Apple on that

 

 

[Scum Pond]

Just now, Chris Nova said:

Blame the laws that politicians pass. 

You have to admit tho the sh*t EA (esp in FIFA) was getting away with in lootboxes was crazy shady.

[Kricket Calamity]

24 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said:

you should tell your friend about the gatcha that people came up with in this thread where there is a hovertext that says the item that will be sold but the next item will be random... as far as I can tell that will be allowed. but if I were a maker I would check if that is ok

 

So there would be a hover text saying what item out of the machine you'd get when you pay and then there would be a random item generated afterwards but customers always know what item they are getting each time as the name is on the script above? Is that still considered chance or is it not as you know what you're getting? I think that could be a really good alternative if it's allowed. It would be great to get LL's view on this idea to see what they think.

[Deathly Fright]

9 minutes ago, Kricket Calamity said:

So there would be a hover text saying what item out of the machine you'd get when you pay and then there would be a random item generated afterwards but customers always know what item they are getting each time as the name is on the script above? Is that still considered chance or is it not as you know what you're getting? I think that could be a really good alternative if it's allowed. It would be great to get LL's view on this idea to see what they think.

yes. so you walk up to what looks to be a normal gatcha vendor now and it has a small hovertext that says the key from the gatcha graphic. then when you buy that thing it randomly picks (just like it always has) and then the hovertext changes so that it says the new item's key. it won't help people who have a problem with gatchas, and there will be a problem of people camming to the gatcha and waiting for a rare to popup to "steal" it, but I think it technically would be ok under the new rules.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Deathly Fright

[Chris Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Kricket Calamity said:

So there would be a hover text saying what item out of the machine you'd get when you pay and then there would be a random item generated afterwards but customers always know what item they are getting each time as the name is on the script above? Is that still considered chance or is it not as you know what you're getting? I think that could be a really good alternative if it's allowed. It would be great to get LL's view on this idea to see what they think.

Multiple people play the same machine at the same time. Nobody is gonna wait for that one item they want. It’s a horrible idea.

[Deathly Fright]

2 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Multiple people play the same machine at the same time. Nobody is gonna wait for that one item they want. It’s a horrible idea.

well either there is a lock for only one person at a time and people wait, people steal rares out from under others, or gachas as we know them go away 🤷‍♀️ I dunno

Edited August 3, 2021 by Deathly Fright

[Chris Corvinus]

Just now, Deathly Fright said:

well either there is a lock for only one person at a time and people wait, or gachas as we know them go away 🤷‍♀️ I dunno

That’s the problem. No ones gonna wait. Most people hate standing in line in rl. We don’t want to do that here 😂. Let gachas die. People will have to get creative in other avenues.

[Zoey Winsmore]

9 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I guess my own humour in that line flew right over your head, then.

Yeah, it totally did. Because you just reused mine with a more unlikely fact. Still, mine was a bit more funnier. Anyways, I am done with you.

[Cinos Field]

Paying to randomize the next roll of a slot machine is clearly still just as much gambling as paying to randomize the current one.

Unless LL specifically say that is somehow allowed, I'd bet several fingers on that it's not.

[Deathly Fright]

1 minute ago, Chris Nova said:

That’s the problem. No ones gonna wait. Most people hate standing in line in rl. We don’t want to do that here 😂. Let gachas die. People will have to get creative in other avenues.

if it's a new gacha, then people will wait

[Deathly Fright]

Just now, Cinos Field said:

Paying to randomize the next roll of a slot machine is clearly still just as much gambling as paying to randomize the current one.

Unless LL specifically say that is somehow allowed, I'd bet several fingers on that it's not.

how would it not be allowed? you are clearly being told what item you're getting, there are no rules for what item the vendor sells next. only that the item be clearly stated, which would be "fixed" by hovertext

[Horatio Hartshon]

Thank you! No more gacha finally.

[Cinos Field]

Just now, Deathly Fright said:

how would it not be allowed? you are clearly being told what item you're getting, there are no rules for what item the vendor sells next. only that the item be clearly stated, which would be "fixed" by hovertext

The blog post says "a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment." 

If you pay the machine to create a random result, in this case the opportunity for your next purchase, it would seem to clearly fall under that description.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Deathly Fright said:

well either there is a lock for only one person at a time and people wait, people steal rares out from under others, or gachas as we know them go away 🤷‍♀️ I dunno

I believe that it is exactly the point "Them going away" you cannot possibly find a different way to do the same thing (Make people pay for a random item, be it first item, last or 99th in the line) and expect no consequences from LL