what's the matter????

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It SHOULD have been a landslide.

^^ This.  It most definitely should have.  Which, to me anyhow, shows that the Democrats are just as screwed up as the Republicans are.

How many more years before our political parties get it together again.  While I didn't agree with the parties much in the past, at least they somewhat had their act together a few decades ago.

 

*sigh*

 

[FairreLilette]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, this was nothing like a landslide. It was a nail biter.

Not really, Biden was ahead the whole time, and even if Trump takes what electoral votes are looking his way and Biden takes the others that are looking his way...it's going to be Biden 306 and Trump 232.  To me, that's no nail bitter. 

So, it's a subjective thing then.  Looks like Biden by a country mile then to me.  lol  I'll call it something else. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

The best they can hope for is a recount in Georgia.

Georgia is currently only showing a 0.2% difference, which is within their margin for a recount to be requested by the candidates or the voters.  Thus I have no doubt at all that it will go to a recount.

[Gabriele Graves]

Ever since 2016, I have never quite thought of the USA in quite the same way as before that.  Never more so than seeing the amount of support for the representative of that last four years in the last few days.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Gabriele Graves
removed duplicate word

[Janet Voxel]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, this was nothing like a landslide. It was a nail biter.

It SHOULD have been a landslide. And now political scientist, sociologists, anthropologists, and most especially Democrat policy makers need to start asking why it was not. 

How can one reach the millions who were taken in by the snake oil? How can the new leadership in Washington address and correct the issues that made so many willing to listen to the quack doctor?

They know the answer. His supporters in America feel like the Democratic Party is run by elitist snobs on both coasts and they aren’t being heard. Their way of life has eroded in the last 40 years and it’s all due to socialism, gay marriage, immigration, “wokeness”etc, etc. Therefore they refuse to support it. Even though the democrats fielded a candidate that would be centre right in any other developed nation...he still had a D in front of his name. 

[Janet Voxel]

7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Georgia is currently only showing a 0.2% difference, which is within their margin for a recount to be requested by the candidates or the voters.  Thus I have no doubt at all that it will go to a recount.

Yeah.

[FairreLilette]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

How can one reach the millions who were taken in by the snake oil?

Do you really want to know the real truth?  My sister's pastor tells them all in her church to vote Republican and has for oh 20 years at least.  I feel like my sister is in a cult but there is nothing I can do.  My sister will never ever come out of her snake oil.  She is a holy roller and does not believe in same sex anything and her pastor tells the whole congregation to vote Republican.  She told me.  She is still Republican and always will be Republican.   Conservative, religious, Republican.  I almost got a re-straining order against her to keep her away from me. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Trump is a cult leader to many of them and his position is all that makes sense.  I doubt most of them even understand how government operates and could comprehend the logic you point out.

No, that’s not it at all. There are some really intelligent people that support him. The problem is a large percentage of his supporters hate people like you and me for various reasons and their sole purpose is to “own you” and troll you, just to see you upset. It’s schadenfreude...now you’re happy, there going to be at it again, clinging to the ridiculous hope that this election was rigged. The vain hope that this will somehow reach the Supreme Court.

Not going to happen. The best they can hope for is a recount in Georgia.

Its over and time to heal.

I guess there's no one type among these 70 million Trump supporters.

Where I live there's a strong religious influence. I remember this one guy I knew for awhile, very friendly, a conservative -- he'd give anybody the shirt off his back if they needed it. But when I gave him a job reference phone number on the back of the only card beside me at the time (my business Reiki card), he freaked out, and said he didn't feel badly about me personally but knew Satan was influencing me through an Eastern religion.  I never heard from him again.  The terror in his eyes was something I'll never forget.

So in his case, it was strong conditioning due to the community he grew up in, and a lack of critical thinking.  There are so many religious communities in the US just like the one he belonged to.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

It's scary really. I just read an article tonight describing how Trump was an inept fascist and so he couldn't pull it off, but that we're primed for a fascist to take over, and he likely won't be so inept the next time.

But... tonight is for celebrating, so I'll be happy we staved off the disaster for at least a few more years.

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I guess there's no one type among these 70 million Trump supporters.

Where I live there's a strong religious influence. I remember this one guy I knew for awhile, very friendly, a conservative -- he'd give anybody the shirt off his back if they needed it. But when I accidentally gave him a job reference phone number on the only card beside me at the time (my business Reiki card), he freaked out, and said he didn't feel badly about me personally but knew Satan was influencing me through an Eastern religion.  I never heard from him again.  The terror in his eyes was something I'll never forget.

So in his case, it was strong conditioning due to the community he grew up in, and a lack of critical thinking.  There are so many religious communities in the US just like the one he belonged to.

You really have to stop looking down on people like that. 
 

When I moved here 13 years ago I drove across the country for a month. America is so vast, so many different ways of life. So he was religious...that doesn’t mean he lacks critical thinking skills. It sounds to me like he was a little intolerant.

Which goes back to what I said about these people really feel like their way of life is disintegrating. Whole industries have dried up, the only jobs are retail or some low paying service job. The party that is supposed to be for working people failed them. So they turned to the man that promised to make them great again (there is an echo from history there). 
 

I’ve been through north eastern Pennsylvania, steel country. There were a tonne of for sale signs right on Main Street. I saw that many many times repeated driving across the country. I didn’t realize what that meant when I was 19, but it makes sense now.
 

When my husband and I were driving up to Canada through Pennsylvania  October 2016, we made a game of counting the Trump signs. We stopped at 170-something, it didn’t make sense then either. It makes sense now, the same places where people have been failed are the same places that are supporting him.

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I guess there's no one type among these 70 million Trump supporters.

Where I live there's a strong religious influence. I remember this one guy I knew for awhile, very friendly, a conservative -- he'd give anybody the shirt off his back if they needed it. But when I accidentally gave him a job reference phone number on the only card beside me at the time (my business Reiki card), he freaked out, and said he didn't feel badly about me personally but knew Satan was influencing me through an Eastern religion.  I never heard from him again.  The terror in his eyes was something I'll never forget.

So in his case, it was strong conditioning due to the community he grew up in, and a lack of critical thinking.  There are so many religious communities in the US just like the one he belonged to.

Expand  Expand  

You really have to stop looking down on people like that. 
 

When I moved here 13 years ago I drove across the country for a month. America is so vast, so many different ways of life. So he was religious...that doesn’t mean he lacks critical thinking skills. It sounds to me like he was a little intolerant.

Which goes back to what I said about these people really feel like their way of life is disintegrating. Whole industries have dried up, the only jobs are retail or some low paying service job. The party that is supposed to be for working people failed them. So they turned to the man that promised to make them great again (there is an echo from history there). 

I'm not looking down on anyone. He was simply unable to think critically about his religion. I remember when I was into Christianity as a teen-ager and wanted so much to feel like I had found the 'one true way', but I met other people who seemed okay so I started to think things like, "hmmm, why would I be the only one blessed with the truth", or "hmmm...why would I have been lucky to be born in the country where God was revealed while those in other countries were evil".   Critical thinking -- I was unable to swallow other people's truths because my mind told me those "truths" were not logical.

I agree with the rest of what you said...the rural communities have been devastated with jobs moving overseas. The people there have no new skills & job opportunities now, yet see those on the coasts with their techie skills and computers making a fine living and not giving a damn about them. And the Democrats did nothing to force the jobs to stay here. I totally understand their hatred of the Democrats who are supposed to be the party of 'the little guy'.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Maryanne Solo]

This thread smells to covfefe. 😷 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Trump is a cult leader to many of them and his position is all that makes sense.  I doubt most of them even understand how government operates and could comprehend the logic you point out.

No, that’s not it at all. There are some really intelligent people that support him. The problem is a large percentage of his supporters hate people like you and me for various reasons and their sole purpose is to “own you” and troll you, just to see you upset. It’s schadenfreude...now you’re happy, there going to be at it again, clinging to the ridiculous hope that this election was rigged. The vain hope that this will somehow reach the Supreme Court.

I have met the cult types, and they are creepy. Many of them have decent jobs so they aren't part of the deprived rural areas necessarily. They like having a strong leader who makes life simple for them via following rigid rules and creating a sense of belonging.

But I don't know what makes people exhibit the sadism you describe and feel it's okay to take out their pain on other people -- for either the cult types or the type you describe who are impoverished due to economic deprivation. We all have an inner fascist, but some see a better way where we try to get along and want to facilitate justice as much as possible... as opposed to dominating others and being threatened by people not like ourselves.

Of course that little inner fascist tends to come out more when we're in pain, but again, some blame others for their pain while others manage to grieve without blaming life or others.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And the Democrats did nothing to force the jobs to stay here. I totally understand their hatred of the Democrats who are supposed to be the party of 'the little guy'.

From what I know of my sister she has been Republican because her Pastor asked her whole congregation to be Republican to vote against gay rights specifically. 

As far as my sister, she believes God will provide.  This is what she always says.  She doesn't necessarily believe any politician will provide anything other than extreme conservatism and that that conservative politician is against "sin" in whatever non-conservative form that sin may be.

To change many conservative Republican's mind, not all, you'd have to go up against a lot of pastors who are telling them to vote Republican, and that is simply a truth.   My sister's church is one of the biggest churches in the Valley.  It's known as a mega-church and the Pastor is on Trinity Broadcast Network as well. 

To change or get people off of "snake oil", speak to conservative Republican pastors and find out where they are at @Scylla Rhiadra

Edited November 8, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

To change or get people off of "snake oil", speak to conservative Republican pastors and find out where they are at. 

That would not be a fun experience, to say the least.

On a positive note, I did hear on CNN that Trump lost some evangelical votes this election.

[FairreLilette]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That would not be a fun experience, to say the least.

On a positive note, I did hear on CNN that Trump lost some evangelical votes this election.

I've spoken to my sister's pastor.  As a matter of fact, she saw him on Trinity Broadcast Network and claims she was saved off the TV and then went to his church.  He's been on TV oh at least 20 years now. 

He's a very conservative person who would probably start praying for you.  Otherwise, he's a very busy man with a mega-church and a weekly TV show plus radio shows. 

Well, if other's countries didn't know about religious conservative Republicans...they might know some now.  As far as all Republicans, some police like to be Republican because they say Republicans fund more money to the police.  I've heard different reasons.

[Doc Carling]

13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

To change or get people off of "snake oil", speak to conservative Republican pastors and find out where they are at

I saw on tv people answering to reporters about what they think about Donald Trump that he was sent by God or even that he is the son of God. They looked like they meant it.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, if other's countries didn't know about religious conservative Republicans...they might know some now.

Even knowing a little bit about all this I'm sure they think the US is a very strange place   

Did you say you took a restraining order out on her?  I've known people whose family members were 'lost' to these evangelical cults and they had to disengage totally.

[LittleMe Jewell]

18 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

To change many conservative Republican's mind, not all, you'd have to go up against a lot of pastors who are telling them to vote Republican, and that is simply a truth.   My sister's church is one of the biggest churches in the Valley.  It's known as a mega-church and the Pastor is on Trinity Broadcast Network as well. 

I think it depends on location.  I don't live in a very religious section of the country.  I know a lot of conservatives, but they are not voting Republican because of religion.

[Luna Bliss]

The church (many of them) is very patriarchal, and there's nothing more patriarchal than fascism. By patriarchal I mean structuring a society so there are levels, usually with males at the head, and groups are always needed on the bottom to stomp down.  It's  the natural way to be, like the lobster society republican Jordan Peterson loves:

 

[FairreLilette]

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Did you say you took a restraining order out on her? 

Almost, I said almost.  I pretty much stay clear of this one sister and have a very good reason - she stole my silver jewelry and sold it at her church.  The police and my family know.  She still had some jewelry in her possession which was finally returned to me.  I haven't spoken to her pastor about it though.  I should because that's a horrible thing to do to one's sister!  She has always been a little kooky but this other stuff that comes from her is way out in outer space. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not looking down on anyone. He was simply unable to think critically about his religion. I remember when I was into Christianity as a teen-ager and wanted so much to feel like I had found the 'one true way', but I met other people who seemed okay so I started to think things like, "hmmm, why would I be the only one blessed with the truth", or "hmmm...why would I have been lucky to be born in the country where God was revealed while those in other countries were evil".   Critical thinking -- I was unable to swallow other people's truths because my mind told me those "truths" were not logical.

I agree with the rest of what you said...the rural communities have been devastated with jobs moving overseas. The people there have no new skills & job opportunities now, yet see those on the coasts with their techie skills and computers making a fine living and not giving a damn about them. And the Democrats did nothing to force the jobs to stay here. I totally understand their hatred of the Democrats who are supposed to be the party of 'the little guy'.

Like Jackie Chan said, there are no bad students, just bad teachers..

The problem is, there is bad teachers claiming to be teaching the word.. They use things like, You'll burn in hell forever..Nope, you'll just be taken out of the book of life which means to not exist anymore.. How can you burn forever if you don't exist anymore?

You'd pretty much still have to have eternal life to burn forever if that were the case.. You can't have eternal life without eating from the tree of life which is on the other side of making it passed judgement .. hehehe

They preach and judge from laws that everyone was saved from.. yet Christ himself said, Judge not that ye be judged..

pretty much in my own words to get his meaning across..Before you go trying to take a stick out of someone else's eye, you hypocrite. Take care of that log sticking out of your own eye first. Then you shall see clearly to take the stick out of an other's eye..

Kind of like, he without sin can cast the first stone.. Well that was never gonna happen..

I studied the bible for a long time and read those books more than a few times..

If someone comes along preaching of hate and fear and judging everyone else and claiming to be Christian..just tell them,they are doing a pretty sucky job at begin what they claim.. The only person they should be judging is themselves..

They should know that everyone's sins are already paid for.. All that is required is that they believe Christ paid that bill..

And if they do believe that, then they should be preaching what he said and did.. Not from old laws that he saved them from..

 

A true Christian is going to turn to that book in hard times and confusing times and not go blaming someone else..

Not saying they don't slip from time to time..I'm just saying there is a difference between those that practice it the way it should be, and then there are those that manipulate it for their own benefit and the sheep they've herded..

 

When I was a christian, Those books were between me and Christ.. I didn't like church much..there were some good preachers..but there were some that I sure didn't care for as well..

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[FairreLilette]

9 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Like Jackie Chan said, there are no bad students, just bad teachers..

The problem is, there is bad teachers claiming to be teaching the word.. They use things like, You'll burn in hell forever..Nope, you'll just be taken out of the book of life which means to not exist anymore.. How can you burn forever if you don't exist anymore?

You'd pretty much still have to have eternal life to burn forever if that were the case.. You can't have eternal life without eating from the tree of life which is on the other side of making it passed judgement .. hehehe

They preach and judge from laws that everyone was saved from.. yet Christ himself said, Judge not that ye be judged..

pretty much in my own words to get his meaning across..Before you go trying to take a stick out of someone else's eye, you hypocrite. Take care of that log sticking out of your own eye first. Then you shall see clearly to take the stick out of an other's eye..

Kind of like, he without sin can cast the first stone.. Well that was never gonna happen..

I studied the bible for a long time and read those books more than a few times..

If someone comes along preaching of hate and fear and judging everyone else and claiming to be Christian..just tell them,they are doing a pretty sucky job at begin what they claim.. The only person they should be judging is themselves..

They should know that everyone's sins are already paid for.. All that is required is that they believe Christ paid that bill..

And if they do believe that, then they should be preaching what he said and did.. Not from old laws that he saved them from..

 

A true Christian is going to turn to that book in hard times and confusing times and not go blaming someone else..

Not saying they don't slip from time to time..I'm just saying there is a difference between those that practice it the way it should be, and then there are those that manipulate it for their own benefit and the sheep they've herded..

 

When I was a christian, Those books were between me and Christ.. I didn't like church much..there were some good preachers..but there were some that I sure didn't care for as well..

 

Thanks for sharing this, Ceka.  It's always good to wake up to the truth of it all.  Jesus came to over-throw the hypocrites whom Jesus said were 1) not following the law either and 2) the law was putting too heavy a burden on us.  The law (the laws of Moses) were changed to just love. 

The sad thing about many religious conservatives is it doesn't even matter who the candidate is a lot of the time, it's just that they are a conservative Christian Republican and they aren't going to change.

My sister will never change.  She can be a very irrational person in her own personality to deal with even before her religious conversion.   All of us, me and my four sisters, grew up in a Democratic household with liberal parents.

Edited November 8, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Drake1 Nightfire]

11 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

I think the same. The judges have lifetime jobs. They can decide what they want. What do we think will they choose? 4 years more with a guy like Trump, who probably expects on and on that they support his political ideas with their decisions like they were just puppets on strings as thank you because he nominated them? And we can bet he does that.

You mean the republican majority SCOTUS? With their newest member who was shoved in? I can bet you can guess where i think they will vote. 

11 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Not really, Biden was ahead the whole time, and even if Trump takes what electoral votes are looking his way and Biden takes the others that are looking his way...it's going to be Biden 306 and Trump 232.  To me, that's no nail bitter. 

So, it's a subjective thing then.  Looks like Biden by a country mile then to me.  lol  I'll call it something else. 

Biden was NOT ahead the whole time. He may have had the popular vote but not the electoral locked in. Trump was ahead in far too many states for a few days for my liking. 

[Ceka Cianci]

10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Thanks for sharing this, Ceka.  It's always good to wake up to the truth of it all.  Jesus came to over-throw the hypocrites whom Jesus said were 1) not following the law either and 2) the law was putting too heavy a burden on us.  The law (the laws of Moses) were changed to just love. 

The sad thing about many religious conservatives is it doesn't even matter who the candidate is a lot of the time, it's just that they are a conservative Christian Republican and they aren't going to change.

My sister will never change.  She can be a very irrational person in her own personality to deal with even before her religious conversion. 

I think when either side starts making a hard turn away from the center and getting deep to the left or the right..those are the ones I worry about..

That's either side.. either side in general has their goods and bads..I've lived enough in areas where one or the other had full control.. I've got a good enough amount of experience with both to know when the scent of bullcrap is floating out of someones mouth.. That scent isn't just coming out of one pasture, that's for sure.. hehehe