what's the matter????

[Gage Wirefly]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Me wonders what people do like about politicians around the world?  I'm not too keen on them in general but they aren't supposed to be Mr. Rogers singing "it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood"...it's a rough job.  I would never do it.  But, there is much work to be done to re-build America.  We need jobs, we need health care. 

I may have said Trump should concede but I said that when Biden's tally for electoral votes went over 300 something.  That tally of over 300 something was pulled and I'm sure it's because they've all decided on the re-count with transparency.

It's better to have transparency, then for the voting officials to be called or thought of as a liar as that is a very serious crime to falsify an election.  So, re-count is happening.

I've also said I'm not crazy about Biden.  I'm ready to look at who Biden is today.  People change. 

I agree with much of this. If the election was clean as most people are screaming then what is a recount going to hurt? Let it happen and then see where it all lands.  A tidbit, a concession is not required by law , it's just a courtesy.

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Latino's

Interesting, I was just reading about voting within the Latinx population, and we really need to keep an eye on this. Looks like 30% went Republican this year. Yet another faction of those 70 million who voted for Trump and don't seem to mind authoritarian governments (if they indeed knew that's what they were voting for).

Another group to consider of those 70 million are the conservatives Lil referred to -- the non-religious ones. They exist in my area of the country too, and their concerns relate basically big business. They have money and feel those who are poor deserve to be so because they just didn't pull those boot straps up hard enough. They don't consider any societal barriers making it difficult for some or have any inclination to make it easier for 'the least among us'. Usually they believe in hierarchy and consider this to be fair, as each individual is seen as totally responsible for earning their place in a hierarchical, stratified society.

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

17 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not looking down on anyone. He was simply unable to think critically about his religion. I remember when I was into Christianity as a teen-ager and wanted so much to feel like I had found the 'one true way', but I met other people who seemed okay so I started to think things like, "hmmm, why would I be the only one blessed with the truth", or "hmmm...why would I have been lucky to be born in the country where God was revealed while those in other countries were evil".   Critical thinking -- I was unable to swallow other people's truths because my mind told me those "truths" were not logical.

I agree with the rest of what you said...the rural communities have been devastated with jobs moving overseas. The people there have no new skills & job opportunities now, yet see those on the coasts with their techie skills and computers making a fine living and not giving a damn about them. And the Democrats did nothing to force the jobs to stay here. I totally understand their hatred of the Democrats who are supposed to be the party of 'the little guy'.

Expand  Expand  

Like Jackie Chan said, there are no bad students, just bad teachers..

The problem is, there is bad teachers claiming to be teaching the word.. They use things like, You'll burn in hell forever..Nope, you'll just be taken out of the book of life which means to not exist anymore.. How can you burn forever if you don't exist anymore?

You'd pretty much still have to have eternal life to burn forever if that were the case.. You can't have eternal life without eating from the tree of life which is on the other side of making it passed judgement .. hehehe

Haha Ceka, if you'd been in Bible school as a kid you'd be one of students I've heard about who totally freaked out the Bible studies teacher and gave them massive headaches!  What! -- a child thinking logically with better critical thinking skills and confusing the teacher  
A question for you -- why do you think you were able to develop critical thinking skills while others immersed in some religions are more easily able to ignore logic?

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Biden used to support segregation.

 

These days, disparaging blacks in any way, no matter how far back in one's history, can result in people having to step down from a position.

In this case though, since Trump was truly horrid in just about every way, people were willing to overlook Biden's previous views and support him anyway.

Please, for God's sake, research the segregation issues more.

I can guaranfrackingtee you that if a photo of Biden in blackface surfaced he would not be our President-Elect! You have a penchant for making erroneous comparisons -- apples to oranges. To be accurate you need to make fairer comparisons that are more complex via taking into more variables.

Biden has plenty of faults to drudge up and he's an annoying neoliberal, but the fact that he has faults cannot be used to prove he's as bad as Trump...or that progressives turn a blind eye to his record.

Clearly some politicians are far worse than others. I mean, autocracy and a fundamental position of 'us against them'??! Do you even have an idea what Democracy is?

[Luna Bliss]

Eternal vigilance is always the price of liberty. Sure, there's a big fight ahead, but at least we're headed in the right direction again!

More DAAAAAAAAAAAANCING!!!!!!!!!!     For the first Asian woman vice-pres, with an Indian flavor so dear to my heart:

 

 

[FairreLilette]

24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Plus, busing segregation did little good...it has been a failure...the situation is a mess...and Biden had better ways to mix everybody together but nobody listened.

I, myself, have not liked forced busing either.  My reasons are simply because it should be voluntary and the child and parents should decide because it's a long ride on that bus...so it should be up to child and parents.  Legs are cramped on buses; horrible L.A. rush hour traffic is a nightmare too! 

[Luna Bliss]

26 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I've also said I'm not crazy about Biden.  I'm ready to look at who Biden is today.  People change but I'm not going to sing "it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood" either. 

If the people have changed (and I believe they have in many respects), then Biden will change.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

33 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Uh huh.🙄

I'm not entirely sure what this is supposed to mean, Gage.

One of the sort of mental "tests" I perform when I find myself in political discussions is . . . to what degree has the person I'm talking to partaken deeply of the Kool-Aid?

Kool-Aid comes in many flavours -- there's red and blue coloured Kool-Aid in the States, for instance. Here in my country, a great many of my friends have sipped orange coloured Kool-Aid -- the colour of Canada's supposedly "socialist" party, the NDP.

Drinking the Kool-Aid, of whatever colour, invariably dulls the mind. Most particularly, it puts our faculty for critical thinking and skepticism to sleep, with the result that we end up hating the "bad guys" unreservedly, while uncritically endorsing the platform, views, and history of the "good guys" -- something that is only possible if you blind yourself to the problems and issues that every single party or ideological approach suffers from.

There are no parties, no leaders, no ideologies that I endorse uncritically. The only person with whom I agree entirely is me -- and hell, I wouldn't even trust me to solve the world's problems.

I am, broadly speaking, a socialist or social democrat -- but I'm not a stupid or blind one: I know that there are problems and challenges, lots of them, presented by that ideology. If there weren't we'd all have become blissfully happy citizens of a worker's paradise long ago. Socialism, liberalism, conservatism, capitalism, neoliberalism . . . these are all deeply flawed human solutions to incredibly complicated problems -- complicated because they, and we, are human.

I'm getting the sense -- maybe I'm wrong? -- that you have pretty much wholeheartedly swigged of the Trumpist Kool-Aid. Am I wrong? I hope I am. Have you parked your critical faculties at the door, or do you maybe occasionally question some of the things your president says?

The world is a pretty complicated place, Gage, and it resists simple solutions. Can you embrace and acknowledge that complexity?

Edited November 8, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Plus, busing segregation did little good...it has been a failure...the situation is a mess...and Biden had better ways to mix everybody together but nobody listened.

I, myself, have not liked forced busing either.  My reasons are simply because it should be voluntary and the child and parents should decide because it's a long ride on that bus...so it should be up to child and parents.  Legs are cramped on buses; horrible L.A. rush hour traffic is a nightmare too! 

Yes, from what I've read it did little good. Whites just moved far, far away into their safe communities (too far for busing), or else put their kids into private schools.  I don't know a whole lot about it but there are other solutions to this schooling problem.

[Gage Wirefly]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm not entirely sure what this is supposed to mean, Gage.

One of the sort of mental "tests" I perform when I find myself in political discussions is . . . to what degree has the person I'm talking to partaken deeply of the Kool-Aid?

Kool-Aid comes in many flavours -- there's red and blue coloured Kool-Aid in the States, for instance. Here in my country, a great many of my friends have sipped orange coloured Kool-Aid -- the colour of Canada's supposedly "socialist" party, the NDP.

Drinking the Kool-Aid, of whatever colour, invariably dulls the mind. Most particularly, it puts our faculty for critical thinking and skepticism to sleep, with the result that we end up hating the "bad guys" unreservedly, while uncritically endorsing the platform, views, and history of the "good guys" -- something that is only possible if you blind yourself to the problems and issues that every single party or ideological approach suffers from.

There are no parties, no leaders, no ideologies that I endorse uncritically. The only person with whom I agree entirely is me -- and hell, I wouldn't even trust me to solve the world's problems.

I am, broadly speaking, a socialist or social democrat -- but I'm not a stupid or blind one: I know that there are problems and challenges, lots of them, presented by that ideology. If there weren't we'd all have become blissfully happy citizens of a worker's paradise long ago. Socialism, liberalism, conservatism, capitalism, neoliberalism . . . these are all deeply flawed human solutions to incredibly complicated problems -- complicated because they, and we, are human.

I'm getting the sense -- maybe I'm wrong? -- that you are have pretty much wholeheartedly swigged of the Trumpist Kool-Aid. Am I wrong? Have you parked your critical faculties at the door, or do you maybe occasionally question some of the things your president says?

No need to explain yourself to me, because I knew you were going to reach into your bag of adjectives and attempt to 'other' me in this conversation. It's so common now it doesn't faze me.  Either way you don't have to prove anything to me, nor I to you. Best wishes and warmest regards.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Gage Wirefly

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

swigged of the Trumpist Kool-Aid. Am I wrong? Have you parked your critical faculties at the door, or do you maybe occasionally question some of the things your president says?

lolol...swigged of the Trumpist Kool-Aid...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Gage Wirefly said:

No need to explain yourself to me, because I knew you were going to reach into your bag of adjectives and attempt to 'other' me in this conversation. It's so common now it doesn't phase me.  Either way you don't have to prove anything to me, nor I to you. Best wishes and warmest regards.

it's called "discussion"; it's how we learn things about each other and the world.

[Doc Carling]

2 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

If Biden is officially(I.E. Not via sources such as the news who wish they were the government) confirmed as the President, unlike how people were with Trump, I am willing to give him a chance, but only one

Since ages it is tradition and usual business in the US that after the election the news call the winner. It happened also when Mr. Trump won. And he was happy to accept the call. So here is my question: why is this tradition suddenly wrong and not acceptable anymore?

Well, same procedure as everytime. Things which a candidate happily welcomes, when he won considers the same candidate as fraud and betrayal, when he lost. Just a weary smile worth.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Doc Carling

[LittleMe Jewell]

35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Me wonders what people do like about politicians around the world?

I tend not to like pretty much anything about politicians - all politicians.  I personally feel that, most of the time, if they are talking then they are lying.  When you get right down to it, they vote and/or promise based on who is giving them money - it is all about power.

 

 

35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

but I said that when Biden's tally for electoral votes went over 300 something.  That tally of over 300 something was pulled and I'm sure it's because they've all decided on the re-count with transparency.

The 300 tally definitely would have depended on the news site.  I watched USA Today for pretty much all of it, because they are pretty good about not leaning either direction -- and that site never once showed Biden over 300.

 

 

Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and/or Wisconsin are the only ones where I could see a recount possibly happening - those are the only ones where the currently posted numbers have less than 1.0% margin.  Even then, the actual vote count difference is greater than 10,000 which makes it fairly unlikely that a recount will change anything.

Edited November 8, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[Luna Bliss]

in Sanskrit, the original language of India, Shanti (peace):

 

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, from what I've read it did little good. Whites just moved far, far away into their safe communities (too far for busing), or else put their kids into private schools.  I don't know a whole lot about it but there are other solutions to this schooling problem.

Not all, that's a sterotype for some of California at least.

My neighborhood was upper middle class and a Los Angeles city councilman lived two doors away from me.  My best friend was a child of an inter-racial marriage - Mom black, Dad white.  We also had a Middle Eastern and White marriage in the neighborhood too.  It was very mixed for upper middle class. 

The L.A. traffic at rush hour is a nightmare though.  It took my sister and I two hours to go three miles once.  And, the horrible smell of those buses could make you want to throw up literally.  There were better ways. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Doc Carling]

7 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You mean the republican majority SCOTUS? With their newest member who was shoved in? I can bet you can guess where i think they will vote. 

Well, judges are humans too after all. They will ask themselves what they win, if they still support a losing site whose leader lost even the rest of his reputation and face with his childish pouting and ranting. Actually they can win nothing, wouldn't you agree? Apart from that, we are talking about an election that ran correctly. No evidence for any Fraud. All we  have - and the Federal court has too - is Trumps claim that there was a kind of nationwide conspiracy ongoing where states, news, local courts, literally evryone even the poll centers worked together to steal his victory. As I said in another reply, if we do such claims as common people, they would lock us up in a mental asylum.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Doc Carling

[Rowan Amore]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

it's called "discussion"; it's how we learn things about each other and the world.

Someone has issues with adjectives....lordy.  Maybe they just need you to use smaller words.

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The 300 tally definitely would have depended on the news site.  I watched USA Today for pretty much all of it, because they are pretty good about not leaning either direction -- and that site never once showed Biden over 300.

It appeared briefly on the page the OP is showing and the page I showed with a screenshot here of 290 Biden to 214 Trump, and then it was gone and reverted back to 290 Biden, 214 Trump.  I don't know if it was a glitch or a re-count is just simply going to happen, so it was pulled.  It's better to have a re-count then for those proceeding over the election to be called a liar or "stealing" the election via false ballots. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Maybe they just need you to use smaller words.

k.

[Doc Carling]

33 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I personally feel that, most of the time, if they are talking then they are lying. 

Actually in the most cases they are not lying. They just tell their voters what they want to hear. 😀

[LittleMe Jewell]

43 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It appeared briefly on the page the OP is showing and the page I showed with a screenshot here of 290 Biden to 214 Trump, and then it was gone and reverted back to 290 Biden, 214 Trump.  I don't know if it was a glitch or a re-count is just simply going to happen, so it was pulled.  It's better to have a re-count then for those proceeding over the election to be called a liar or "stealing" the election via false ballots. 

Very possible that it was just a mistake - someone added in the numbers for a state and then quickly realized that the state hadn't really been called yet and so they backed the number out.

[Gage Wirefly]

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

Someone has issues with adjectives....lordy.  Maybe they just need you to use smaller words.

Simplistic. That's an adjective for you.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Simplistic. That's an adjective for you.

If only politics were.  Obtuse is another good one.

[Gage Wirefly]

Contingent Election

If the Supreme Court takes this up and its very likely considering the many irregularities occurring with votes and this type of election has happened 3 times prior in American history.

It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

The house/congress votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans and 20 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution.

The Senate votes for the Vice President, where a similar event will take place.

 

Just throwing that out there for anyone who thinks it's silly for the President not to concede and to challenge the results in court.  There is still very much a lot at stake here .

Edited November 9, 2020 by Gage Wirefly