What is Wrong With SL?

[ooJenny]

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents opinion here.  Now that SL has been acquired by an investment group and by the sounds of things and what I have read, they wish to not only keep it going, but to make it better.  So here's the deal from my own personal perspective.  

My Mom was in SL years ago, several years ago and she is actually the one who introduced me to SL. We sat at the computer together as she helped me build my avatar. As we put my avi together and went shopping for this and that, she told all about what SL used to be like. When there were 70,000 people online at any given time of day. She had built her own business in SL.  It was a brothel, yah yah, i know right!  But the point is, she says it was very successful.  She said it was always full and she even had staff that she literally paid by the hour. But then, according to her story, one day, things changed.  Yes there were tons of clubs and social places but you could go to one of the clubs and walk in with your avi and it was standing room only, literally.  Then LL decided they needed to raise their tier fees.  I guess they also added a lot of new land space? (someone else told me that.)  After this move, my Mom saw the steady decline of people in SL and she wound up having to let her land and business go.  She told me of many great clubs, stores and activity based businesses close the doors and clear out of SL.  Big beautiful thriving places just gone.  

I trudged forward into the world of SL, filled with both hope and cynicism.  I wondered what I would discover for myself in this world.  Well as I teleported around from sim to sim, club to club, social place to social place, it was my cynicism that bared out.  Everywhere I went was empty, or nearly empty.  The whole virtual world was like a huge ghost town.  Empty clubs, ... gorgeous ones too!  Empty bars, empty malls, even entire cities... empty.  If not empty than maybe one or two other lonely people would be there.  

I think most people do like to socialize.  I would bet that a large percentage of people come into SL hoping to find an alternative life, where they can meet others and talk and text and hang out, am I right?  That is what I was hoping to find at least.

But things are like a huge ghost town.  Yes clubs still get built and so do other interesting social activity platforms in world.  But a great club, bar or other type hangout is built and then sits there empty.  An occasional teleport in from someone who found the place isn't going to be enough to keep that place thriving.

People are social creatures on the overall. Many of us come into SL because we can hang out in places we like with others and we can chat and dance and even go into bars and spend our days hanging out with others and maybe we even meet someone and strike up that latest hot romance.  

But everything in SL is so spaced out.  Too many skybox bars, restaurants, clubs, motels, cities and other, etc.  Being a bit of a socialite myself, I do like to go into SL and go the busiest hangouts where lots of people are there hanging out.  I will typically have 2 to 5 or 6 or more conversations going on in my im, as I am meeting new people and having some interesting conversations.

But there seems to be toooo many empty bars, clubs, malls, diners, parks, etc, all across the grid.  People come in to see this grand virtual world and want to meet others, hook up and hang out and what they find when they first arrive in SL is barren ghost towns.  A great club over here with not a soul in it.  A great bar they find over there, but it has one lonely person in it. Or they visit some ideal tropical beach resort only to find a couple people there.  It is because there is too much land and not enough people and prices for land and rentals is just too much.  Socialites don't want to go to empty sims and hang out alone.

Would it not be more profitable to lower land fees once again so that more people can actually afford to set up their online in world virtual businesses, and not only set them up but keep them on grid?  More people would be coming in, numbers would rise once again, perhaps slowly at first but they would rise as more and more people come in and find out that it is actually affordable to have a chunk of virtual land.

I always thought that LL should have a few cities or large towns where everyone could live together in a city or suburban settings.  Lots of homes and apartments surrounded by real clubs, stores, malls, parks and other businesses.  Where people can come into SL for the first time and they can go to that city and actually see lots of people in it.  Then they see apartments they can actually rent in that city that they can afford.  And when they go to that nightclub in that city, since it is centrally located within the city or town, it is actually busy and bustling with people.  It's too bad we don't have a little more realism.  Wouldn't it be totally cool if instead of just teleporting somewhere across the grid, if we wanted to go span the distance and go across town we could either walk, take a cab, ride a bike or get on a bus to travel there?  Wouldn't it be cool if your best RL friend actually lived across town in their apartment and you could jump in a cab and go visit them for the day? Maybe go to one of those busy nightclubs together and dance or have a few drinks while chatting with others who are there?  Then maybe catch a cab to another part of the city or town to maybe stroll through a museum, or play some mini-golf or go bowling or some activity that would also be there in the city or town?  

Lower land fees and LL built and sponsored cities and towns and sprawling suburban areas that THEY rent out the apartments and homes in, that people could actually afford to buy that club and rent that home and build that business would surly draw more people once again.  If someone new comes into SL their first time and actually finds these bustling places they like full of people to meet, chat with, find some new friends and even stumble into an unexpected hot new relationship, would more people not be staying?  And then as they stay longer and learn more, perhaps that new person also has a great idea for a new business and he/she builds that new business and it actually works because there are actually people still in world.

That's just my humble little opinion, and some of you may wish to jump down my throat and argue it and try to tear it apart, but it is still just my opinion.

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by ooJenny

[Sabrina Tamerlane]

While I agree with you, things have changed and people would hangout more in roleplay sims and music venues than SL clubs. Of course this is my opinion as I have no idea of what the real numbers are...

[Alwin Alcott]

48 minutes ago, ooJenny said:

she told all about what SL used to be like. When there were 70,000 people online at any given time of day

 

Those high numbers are right for some time, but never at ány time, it always were just a certain amount of hours the traffic was that huge.
It comes close to the past was always better and idealizing something that never been here.
 

49 minutes ago, ooJenny said:

 there were tons of clubs and social places
She told me of many great clubs, stores and activity based businesses close the doors and clear out of SL. 
Big beautiful thriving places just gone.  
Empty bars, empty malls, even entire cities... empty.  If not empty than maybe one or two other lonely people would be there.  
Yes clubs still get built and so do other interesting social activity platforms in world. 
But a great club, bar or other type hangout is built and then sits there empty. 
Too many skybox bars, restaurants, clubs, motels, cities and other, etc. 
But there seems to be toooo many empty bars, clubs, malls, diners, parks, etc, all across the grid.

Would it not be more profitable to lower land fees once again so that more people can actually afford to set up their online in world virtual businesses,

People come and go, so also the business they make .

You say too many empty things? .. and you want less fees to get more empty places?

There are more clubs and bars on SL than residents... that's the cause, and most offer nothing more than boring all the same ..like 1000 restauranst only serving meat balls.
 

55 minutes ago, ooJenny said:

I think most people do like to socialize. 

many don't
 

57 minutes ago, ooJenny said:

That's just my humble little opinion, and some of you may wish to jump down my throat and argue it and try to tear it apart

no need to tear it apart, but you talk about a place that never really was here. It was different than now, but that's all.
Everybody lives in his/her own bubble, and sometimes never come out. Stories like these are made in such dream, and nothing wrong with it, just don't present is as factual history.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

1 hour ago, ooJenny said:

What is Wrong With SL?

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents opinion here. 

What is Wrong With RL?

I don't recognize this world anymore! It's so different from 8 months ago! It's not how I would like it to be!

But real-life aside, the big question pertaining to your personal opinion of SL is, @ooJenny, what are you going to do about it?

[Sabrina Tamerlane]

ooJenny is right when she says that many places are empty...

What happens typically with clubs is that someone creates a new club, hires staff and when the staff members become experienced they think they can make their own club and leave so the number of clubs grows steadily. Many clubs are also empty most of the time because their owner only hosts events at specific hours or only the weekend...

[FairreLilette]

I've heard SL got "super busy" after it was reported that Anshe Chung was a virtual millionaire in or around 2007.   Anshe Chung and her family still own a lot of SL land.  I've also read Anshe Chung owns a third of Marketplace.  I don't have much more information than that.  You can look Anshe Chung up on the internet, however.

I have been on and off SL since almost it's beginnings.  Yes, the social scene has been much more vibrant in the past but you have to realize this viewer was made for the Classic avatars you get when you sign up.  The mesh avatars are made by residents as is most of the items here.  The mesh avatars are not so easy to run and have 40 avatars.  I have to have jelly dolls if there are a lot of mesh avatars, so I became a tiny and tinies have a great social scene with 80+ avatar events, even 100+ avatar events and we need two sims as a region only holds 90 avatars.  Tinies are low lag optimized for SL's viewer avatars.  

You can look in your Destination Guide to find the 'what's happening now' to find the busy places.  Do you know where your Destination Guide is?  There are a few active dance clubs that get quite busy.  

Coronavirus and post-coronorivus world now...businesses are going to go through some tough situations and it's not going to be very pretty.  I've let go of builds because of coronovirus as I don't feel it's the time to be spending extra money.  Real life comes first always.  

However, I agree with you, and especially in a coronovirus world, land prices need to come down.  That doesn't mean they will.   But, I think it's realistic for me to say so.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, ooJenny said:

there were tons of clubs and social places but you could go to one of the clubs and walk in with your avi and it was standing room only, literally.  Then LL decided they needed to raise their tier fees.  I guess they also added a lot of new land space?

It's true that SL's popularity has dropped off.  It was not due to an increase in tier.  Back during its "boom years" land was MUCH more expensive than it is now.  I think part of the decline is simply that SL is no longer the new and exciting thing, and people have moved on.  And part is due to some decisions LL made back then:

• The Gambling Ban
• The creation of the Adult category
• A large increase in land area (Zindra, the Linden Home continents, Bay City, Nautilus City)
• Some bait and switch moves for private estate owners (Homestead pricing, elimination of the educational discounts)

All of these helped "civilize" SL.  While that was, by and large, a good thing it also meant that SL lost its appeal as a wide open, lawless frontier town where anything could and did happen.

[Alwin Alcott]

14 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

land prices need to come down.  

purchase private regions went from $ 1000 to $ 349
maintenance for those from $295 to $229

Tiers went down .. or better the landallowence went up.

They have a business to run. For the same revenue a lowering of 50% fees needs a grow of 100% landholdings ... that's never going to happen.
 

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

purchase private regions went from $ 1000 to $ 349
maintenance for those from $295 to $229

Wow, I never knew that.  How long has that lower price been around?   Because in a coronavirus world and post-coronavirus world, things are going to change money-wise for people, the world, and business.  

It's difficult to say if $349 is a lot for a coronavirus world as it all depends on each individual, but I think a lot of prices need to come down in SL - sales galore...it's just not going to be pretty, this coronavirus and post-coronavirus world.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Foggypebble Muircastle]

I like to go exploring in SL and I too have come across empty bars, malls, and cities. It’s quite sad how unpopular this great site has become. Whole malls with nothing for sale, clubs that have been abandoned for years, entire communities with houses that are vacant. I was sick during the golden years of sl and now everybody’s gone to minecraft which I do not care for.

[Syo Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Foggypebble Muircastle said:

Whole malls with nothing for sale

Malls were always an awful concept.

4 minutes ago, Foggypebble Muircastle said:

and now everybody’s gone to minecraft

I highly doubt that. Both communities are unlikely to share a huge overlap and Minecraft has been around for years.

[FairreLilette]

Sure Klytyna can go around laughing at posts all she wants but even the rich have been hit - not making movies, not having concerts, not having sporting events for months.  Once dominos begin to start tumbling there is no way to know how many dominos will also tumble all around the world.

I just saw this link this morning from Youtube called "Save Our Stages"...it's a music fest on Youtube.   Musicians aren't making much money.  The rich have been "hit" too.  

https://www.youtube.com/music

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Sure Klytyna can go around laughing at posts all she wants but even the rich have been hit - not making movies, not having concerts, not having sporting events for months.  Once dominos begin to start tumbling there is no way to know how many dominos will also tumble all around the world.

I just saw this link this morning from Youtube called "Save Our Stages"...it's a music fest on Youtube.   Musicians aren't making much money.  The rich have been "hit" too.  

https://www.youtube.com/music

* laughs at post too, in solidarity with Klytina *

[Foggypebble Muircastle]

1 minute ago, Syo Emerald said:

Malls were always an awful concept.

I highly doubt that. Both communities are unlikely to share a huge overlap and Minecraft has been around for years.

I personally like malls. It’s a way to find things I may not otherwise have found and sometimes people who can’t afford to have their own land rent a spot in a mall instead.

[Adamburp Adamczyk]

I have 2 clubs on my land, beach and a roller disco.

Not run in a commercial sense, I just like having them there, if people are there dancing, fantastic.

 

If just me, I've plenty of practice doing my Billy Idol impersonation.  (for those too young to know who billy idol is "dancing with myself" is the punchline).

[FairreLilette]

6 minutes ago, Foggypebble Muircastle said:

I personally like malls. It’s a way to find things I may not otherwise have found and sometimes people who can’t afford to have their own land rent a spot in a mall instead.

I like malls too.  I've been a mall renter on and off for about two years.  It's an affordable way to experience living in the virtual world without the need for a big solitary store.  Gacha malls are pretty popular too.  Gachas are a good way to advertise.  I have found many creator's through my Gacha shopping.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by FairreLilette

[ooJenny]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Those high numbers are right for some time, but never at ány time, it always were just a certain amount of hours the traffic was that huge.
It comes close to the past was always better and idealizing something that never been here.
 

People come and go, so also the business they make .

You say too many empty things? .. and you want less fees to get more empty places?

There are more clubs and bars on SL than residents... that's the cause, and most offer nothing more than boring all the same ..like 1000 restauranst only serving meat balls.
 

many don't
 

no need to tear it apart, but you talk about a place that never really was here. It was different than now, but that's all.
Everybody lives in his/her own bubble, and sometimes never come out. Stories like these are made in such dream, and nothing wrong with it, just don't present is as factual history.

Oh, thanks, I will have to ask my Mom why she told me that, since it isn't factual 

 

[ooJenny]

3 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

What is Wrong With RL?

I don't recognize this world anymore! It's so different from 8 months ago! It's not how I would like it to be!

But real-life aside, the big question pertaining to your personal opinion of SL is, @ooJenny, what are you going to do about it?

What can I do?  I tell friends about it, they come and check it out and never come back... shrugs.   I've posted some ideas, maybe the new owners will think about some things and get something going?  Beats me.

[Rowan Amore]

5 hours ago, ooJenny said:

 

Lower land fees and LL built and sponsored cities and towns and sprawling suburban areas that THEY rent out the apartments and homes in, that people could actually afford to buy that club and rent that home and build that business would surly draw more people once again.  If someone new comes into SL their first time and actually finds these bustling places they like full of people to meet, chat with, find some new friends and even stumble into an unexpected hot new relationship, would more people not be staying?  And then as they stay longer and learn more, perhaps that new person also has a great idea for a new business and he/she builds that new business and it actually works because there are actually people still in world.

 

This is exactly why there are places with no one in them.  People get land, build themselves a club, neighborhood, shopping mall or whatever.  Then, you end up with 4748594837 new places to go with still the same amount of people in SL.  There are already places like you described.  Tons of them.  New clubs open every single day.  That's part of the appeal of SL.  Build your own world.  The thing is, with so many people doing exactly what you've mentioned, of course most of those places will be empty or have only a handful of the owners friends there.  

There is no easy answer to getting more people into SL and staying here.  Younger people find it boring, I assume.  It's not a video games like they're used to playing.  There is no goal, there are no points earned, there is no end game.  There is no way for SL to entertain you.  You have to find ways to entertain yourself and I guess that's just too much work for some people.

[ooJenny]

4 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

This is exactly why there are places with no one in them.  People get land, build themselves a club, neighborhood, shopping mall or whatever.  Then, you end up with 4748594837 new places to go with still the same amount of people in SL.  There are already places like you described.  Tons of them.  New clubs open every single day.  That's part of the appeal of SL.  Build your own world.  The thing is, with so many people doing exactly what you've mentioned, of course most of those places will be empty or have only a handful of the owners friends there.  

There is no easy answer to getting more people into SL and staying here.  Younger people find it boring, I assume.  It's not a video games like they're used to playing.  There is no goal, there are no points earned, there is no end game.  There is no way for SL to entertain you.  You have to find ways to entertain yourself and I guess that's just too much work for some people.

Yah, that is true too Rowan.  SL is competing against new age chats and video chats, etc.  Alot of my friends spend their days on skype and so forth.  I don't know what the answers are.  I just only know what i see in there today and the picture my mother drew in my mind... shrugs.  

[CaerolleClaudel]

Here is my experience in 2020:

Relative to North America time zones: If you like country music, you can find several clubs with massive crowds. Blues is similar, though not as large. Pretty relentlessly str8 and human as you might expect. Oh, also 'classic' rock, oldies, I think fall into this category. People seem to love that stuff.

Relative to Western European time zones: I have had some success finding some good EDM with crowds. Less relentlessly str8, still relentlessly human.

Queerer clubs: Maybe as many clubs; far, far fewer events and mostly smaller crowds. One or two country, some rock, scattered other genres.

Gothy/BDSM clubs: A couple of places, crowd size varies, far fewer events.

One of the biggest problems I find is that even at clubs with people, I rarely find people talking in open chat, which is mostly filled with chat spam. Almost all conversation is in IMs. I have been in and out of SL since 2007, and to me it is massively harder to find friends and find places that have any worthwhile conversation. I have even tried sticking with the same place for a while in an attempt to work my way in, but even at smaller places I find that hard; most of the regulars often have known each other for years, and natural selection has worked to form the group. Even harder, for me at least, is to find a place with an atmosphere I like and music I like, too. I have tried going to clubs that seem to align with my social wants, and listened to my own music, but honestly it just isn't the same.

If you are trying to 'solve' SL's issues, noone can do that. If you are looking for things engaging activities for yourself, I would suggest being more specific: What time zone you are, what kinds of music you like, what kind of space you want to be in, and so forth.

The problem is that SL has changed into something very different than it was even 10 years ago, much less 13 - 15. Another current thread is discussing 'things to do,' and that thread reinforces my impression that the social aspects of SL are pretty much dead and are not coming back. A lot of people these days seem to be into just doing their own thing, a lot of which involves playing virtual Barbie, photography, setting up houses/sims just as its own entertainment, exploring, and things like that. SL has gone from something that had a brief burst of wider interest to a really, really niche place, and is only going to become more so, IMO.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Foggypebble Muircastle said:

I personally like malls. It’s a way to find things I may not otherwise have found and sometimes people who can’t afford to have their own land rent a spot in a mall instead.

Here in the US, we have "indoor malls", and more frequently "outdoor malls".  Outdoor is becoming more popular / common than indoor, the last few years in my area (for new construction). They will literally tear down an inside mall, and build an outside mall on the same spot.

[CaerolleClaudel]

8 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

This is exactly why there are places with no one in them.  People get land, build themselves a club, neighborhood, shopping mall or whatever.  Then, you end up with 4748594837 new places to go with still the same amount of people in SL.  There are already places like you described.  Tons of them.  New clubs open every single day.  That's part of the appeal of SL.  Build your own world.  The thing is, with so many people doing exactly what you've mentioned, of course most of those places will be empty or have only a handful of the owners friends there.  

There is no easy answer to getting more people into SL and staying here.  Younger people find it boring, I assume.  It's not a video games like they're used to playing.  There is no goal, there are no points earned, there is no end game.  There is no way for SL to entertain you.  You have to find ways to entertain yourself and I guess that's just too much work for some people.

I used to spend hours and hours and hours in SL, and never had to entertain myself. I had clubs with people who had interesting conversation, specific-interest sites also full of people with interesting conversation and interaction, the place was wide-open and free-ranging but places had people who were interesting in interacting with other people. Navigating an empty world, especially given the persistent lag and slow texture loading, is not for me, or a lot of us who came here for social interaction.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I used to spend hours and hours and hours in SL, and never had to entertain myself. I had clubs with people who had interesting conversation, specific-interest sites also full of people with interesting conversation and interaction, the place was wide-open and free-ranging but places had people who were interesting in interacting with other people. Navigating an empty world, especially given the persistent lag and slow texture loading, is not for me, or a lot of us who came here for social interaction.

I've noticed the same thing but then I'll hear someone say in local chat..'hit me up if you want to join our discord, skype, blah blah chat"  This is probably the biggest detriment to socializing in SL.  People are involved in offsite chatting apps.  They'll stand around in a spot for hours on end never interacting with anyone because they're busy chatting with people offsite.  I come into SL specifically to chat with people but it usually IS in IM since no one else is talking at the place I'm at.  I've often seen in profiles, too, "If you IM and I don't respond, I may be tabbed out or playing a game in another window".  Why exactly do they bother logging in?   

[SodaGnome]

One thing I just noticed recently is I rented some land and was reading in depth the land covenant and mind you I rented this land with the idea of a hang out, club, store, bar etc.....and it is zoned full commercial...... the covenant says I can have 2 to 3 visitors max.....

I get that I have just rented some land that has been divided up into smaller pieces....but 2 to 3 avatars? How many can a full sim support? 

 

Why does this restriction exist? Take some zone in a game like World Of Warcraft...... they can have several hundred avatars in there.  Yea so I'm not sure how one opens a dance club or something without owning the entire sim with these restrictions on how many can visit or be there.