What is Wrong With SL?

[Syo Emerald]

2 minutes ago, SodaGnome said:

Why does this restriction exist? Take some zone in a game like World Of Warcraft...... they can have several hundred avatars in there.  Yea so I'm not sure how one opens a dance club or something without owning the entire sim with these restrictions on how many can visit or be there. 

But that is not a restriction from LL, but from some silly person you are renting from. No need to own a full sim, if you rent either directly from LL or from a sane landlord.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, SodaGnome said:

but 2 to 3 avatars? How many can a full sim support?

most mainland regions up to 40
private regions up to 100 + 10 premiums...but you really don't want that  
homesteads 20 + 5 premiums
open space 10+ 2 premiums

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

1 hour ago, ooJenny said:

5 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

@ooJenny, what are you going to do about it?

I've posted some ideas, maybe the new owners will think about some things and get something going?

I have an idea too: a million bucks for everyone!

[SodaGnome]

10 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

most mainland regions up to 40
private regions up to 100 + 10 premiums...but you really don't want that  
homesteads 20 + 5 premiums
open space 10+ 2 premiums

Yea I just went and looked at bigger land for rent and read the covenant.... " Avatar limit of 5-7 avatars on 2000 and 3000 sqm. land rentals, while 10 avatar limit for 4000 sqm." So really need to spend a lot of money to allow more than 10 people I guess. I pay under 600 lindens a week for land  rental. Spend lot's more on toys, clothes, boats, cars and on and on.

The one idea I had was for linden labs to somehow take over amazing builds so they stay forever.... like Greenies was awesome. I was in route 66 today and thinking about how sad it would be if it eventually closed as the look is amazing. 

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, SodaGnome said:

The one idea I had was for linden labs to somehow take over amazing builds so they stay forever.... like Greenies was awesome. I was in route 66 today and thinking about how sad it would be if it eventually closed as the look is amazing. 

They already do this on an extremely limited basis.

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I have an idea too: a million bucks for everyone!

That assumes you have something you care about buying. I already donate my $300 weekly Premium money to someone, as I have given up on finding anything in SL worth the time and effort to do. I guess if it was a million I could donate more to something else, but more money would not change a thing for me personally.

[Rowan Amore]

49 minutes ago, SodaGnome said:

One thing I just noticed recently is I rented some land and was reading in depth the land covenant and mind you I rented this land with the idea of a hang out, club, store, bar etc.....and it is zoned full commercial...... the covenant says I can have 2 to 3 visitors max.....

I get that I have just rented some land that has been divided up into smaller pieces....but 2 to 3 avatars? How many can a full sim support? 

 

Why does this restriction exist? Take some zone in a game like World Of Warcraft...... they can have several hundred avatars in there.  Yea so I'm not sure how one opens a dance club or something without owning the entire sim with these restrictions on how many can visit or be there. 

Sounds like you need to find a new rental company.  I could maybe understand if you're renting commercial on a homestead.  Prices would be lower but so would prims available and avatar capacity.  I've never rented on a commercial region but the parcel I have has no restrictions on avatar visitors.  It seems counterproductive to allow so few people on a commercial region.  What would be the incentive to even rent there if you wanted a club or business?  Also, how exactly would they even be able to keep track of that on each parcel unless they sat there and watched or had some sort of visitor counter on YOUR spot?

Edited October 17, 2020 by RowanMinx

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

19 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

but more money would not change a thing for me personally.

Aw. I was about ti give away a few million bucks to a few people. But maybe you're right. Maybe people do not want it...

[CaerolleClaudel]

Just now, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Aw. I was about ti give away a few million bucks to a few people. But maybe you're right. Maybe people do not want it...

Well, give whatever to whoever else but me.

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, ooJenny said:

SL is competing against new age chats and video chats, etc.  Alot of my friends spend their days on skype and so forth.  I don't know what the answers are.  I just only know what i see in there today 

I'm not here for a SL romantic relationship.  I'm here for friends only and sometimes I'm in my pajamas and I don't want to be on Skype or have people I don't know enter too much of my own personal real life space.  I was on mic a few times and found it daunting because the ones I chatted with on mic had a very heavy accent and I could not understand what they are saying.  

But, overall, I'm just not interested in having people speaking in my own private real life space.  Typing is okay.  

I'd love to get something together for people who do computer art where we sell actual one of a kinds of our own computer art but I keep thinking that will fail so I don't do it.  It's on a back burner.  I may put out a call one of these days to see if people might be interested in an art walk where real one-of-a-kind artworks are available to view and/or purchase.  No copy artworks would be allowed though.  I had an art exhibit of Le Sidaner's work, whom I call "the painter of light" and whom Christie's called "a magical painter"...I think about 5 people came to the art exhibit.  LOL It was a total flop but I used too big of textures too at 1024 plus frames.  This was before I knew about optimized building.   But, still that failure makes me not too interested in trying too much in SL.  It's difficult to get the word out, etc.  Not too many people even visit the forum or they are busy with the forum and don't even want to go to an art exhibit.  

I might sound like a negative ninny but that is how I feel.  I still do unusual things in SL but most fail.  What makes one successful in SL...right now events are popular.  Events are too laggy and I have never been I need the shiny either in rl or sl.  I like what I like, doesn't have to be new.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Simo Vodopan]

1 hour ago, SodaGnome said:

Yea I just went and looked at bigger land for rent and read the covenant.... " Avatar limit of 5-7 avatars on 2000 and 3000 sqm. land rentals, while 10 avatar limit for 4000 sqm." So really need to spend a lot of money to allow more than 10 people I guess. I pay under 600 lindens a week for land  rental. Spend lot's more on toys, clothes, boats, cars and on and on.

The one idea I had was for linden labs to somehow take over amazing builds so they stay forever.... like Greenies was awesome. I was in route 66 today and thinking about how sad it would be if it eventually closed as the look is amazing. 

Pretty much, for around the similar price of 9 USD you can get 2,500L. It's more cost-effective than premium. The only advantage I can see owning your own land is that you have no restrictions on how you can theme your house and what not; otherwise renting from someone has alot more pros. The stipend and such, while it's a nice kind gesture and all is a little too low for the value. It almost seems redundant when buying L$s is like paying for premium; you're supporting LL eitherway but getting more in the process. Which reminds me of how some residents would look down on 'free' members back in the day when the jist is we're all giving our support here like that it's silly.

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

the big question pertaining to your personal opinion of SL is, @ooJenny, what are you going to do about it?

You know I hear this a lot Arduenn and I personally have put myself out there but the thing is I did not have a plan.

We can dream and build but people finding it is something else entirely.

I think the events work because of social media advertising outside of the SL forum.  

A group build or exhibit sim or whatever to call it is better than doing it on our own especially 'if' funds and time are limited because with a group effort there are people advertising all over the place plus even on Discord.  

But, still you are in right in that real life is what we put the effort out for and it's the same with SL.

Advertising is necessary to learn and to work though too. 

Plus, sometimes getting something going can take months.  My second rental mall stores with one landlord had at first only me and two other people.  It took about eight months to get that filled up and fully hopping and now it's almost always full.   It took working and advertising for eight months though and sat nearly empty for eight months until one day - boom!   

So what's the other thing you gotta have in SL, patience.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Nick0678]

6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Wow, I never knew that.  How long has that lower price been around?   Because in a coronavirus world and post-coronavirus world, things are going to change money-wise for people, the world, and business.  

It's difficult to say if $349 is a lot for a coronavirus world as it all depends on each individual, but I think a lot of prices need to come down in SL - sales galore...it's just not going to be pretty, this coronavirus and post-coronavirus world.  

[Simo Vodopan]

39 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You know I hear this a lot Arduenn and I personally have put myself out there but the thing is I did not have a plan.

We can dream and build but people finding it is something else entirely.

I think the events work because of social media advertising outside of the SL forum.  

A group build or exhibit sim or whatever to call it is better than doing it on our own especially 'if' funds and time are limited because with a group effort there are people advertising all over the place plus even on Discord.  

But, still you are in right in that real life is what we put the effort out for and it's the same with SL.

Advertising is necessary to learn and to work though too. 

Plus, sometimes getting something going can take months.  My second rental mall stores with one landlord had at first only me and two other people.  It took about eight months to get that filled up and fully hopping and now it's almost always full.   It took working and advertising for eight months though and sat nearly empty for eight months until one day - boom!   

So what's the other thing you gotta have in SL, patience.  

The biggest issue is setting high expectations anyways, over time you realize things are not as they seem and it's just how they go as you roll with it. Take it in strikes. Second Life has the potential as does everything else, just gotta take the time with it and all. There's really no real fix, nothing we can really do about it. I remind myself of expectation - reality on the daily. Such as an avatar might not turn out how I want it but I'll go "Sod it" and work on another project until I find whatever 'fits' as an example.

Overall, I sometimes say: "When in doubt, yolo" within reasonable means ofcourse but yeah.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Simo Vodopan

[Gatogateau]

I have to say, Forumites, I'm impressed. I saw the Wall O Text OP and the title and just assumed it was another one of those posts that get 99% scorn-joke replies. But lookit you guys, all talking it over. For me, TLDR & I'm not pissed off at SL (usually). I haven't seen much fundamentally change in the 11+ years I've been here, and what changes I have seen are both good and bad. The biggest thing for me is the type of people. When I first got here I quickly found a "home" with a group, a large group, of people. That place is long gone and I have yet to find a place that duplicates the kind of community feel, and I think that is just how SL evolved/devolved.

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

When I first got here I quickly found a "home" with a group, a large group, of people. That place is long gone and I have yet to find a place that duplicates the kind of community feel, and I think that is just how SL evolved/devolved.

Sadly, if that is your top priority, not much left of interest in SL.

[Gatogateau]

Just now, CaerolleClaudel said:

Sadly, if that is your top priority, not much left of interest in SL.

That's not my priority. If it were, you are right, I probably wouldn't stay here. I'm not exactly sure if I have a priority  or if I do, what it is, but it appears to be being met.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

3 hours ago, SodaGnome said:

Yea I just went and looked at bigger land for rent and read the covenant.... " Avatar limit of 5-7 avatars on 2000 and 3000 sqm. land rentals, while 10 avatar limit for 4000 sqm." So really need to spend a lot of money to allow more than 10 people I guess. I pay under 600 lindens a week for land  rental. Spend lot's more on toys, clothes, boats, cars and on and on.

The one idea I had was for linden labs to somehow take over amazing builds so they stay forever.... like Greenies was awesome. I was in route 66 today and thinking about how sad it would be if it eventually closed as the look is amazing. 

Not unsurprising, expectations of a rental company is  that all their tenants get to use their land. We have problems already with several clubs that essentially deny the use of their land to other people in the region because of the avatar cap.

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

That's not my priority. If it were, you are right, I probably wouldn't stay here. I'm not exactly sure if I have a priority  or if I do, what it is, but it appears to be being met.

Yes, I understand, you said that was not your priority. Just pointing out that for those for whom it is (me, specifically), it renders SL a highly-decorated hollow shell. Which is also frustrating to just walk thought and look at due to lag in moving and in texture loading.~

[FairreLilette]

16 hours ago, Simo Vodopan said:

The biggest issue is setting high expectations anyways, over time you realize things are not as they seem and it's just how they go as you roll with it. 

I think my expectations were a lot higher for one of my first landlord's than it was for her.  I thought her sim was being ignored but she rolled with it.  What a surprise when it went BOOM! and the place filled up.  I was totally surprised because it just all of a sudden finally happened.  She was happy with it, rolling along.   She had a SL club and a roller rink too which keeps her busy on the weekends; she works rl during the week.  

It was weird how one day it just finally happened to her shopping mall.  The sim is still very bustling with life and activity - shoppers, browsers, or those visiting the park in the middle of the town square for some quiet time.  I think it was her club and the group that went with the club that finally took off.  

It does take patience and just rolling with it and wait and see.  

Edited October 18, 2020 by FairreLilette

[animats]

 

Dead mall in Mosh, in Zindra.

Someone mentioned dead malls.  Here's a rather nice futuristic one. The Zindra monorail runs through it. This was built by the Moles, and parceled up into little 400/m^2 stores. The stores are almost all empty, and some big landlord has bought up all the empty spaces. They're for sale, for about L$125/m^2.

Something has gone wrong with the economics here.

 

[Rowan Amore]

One near me irl.  It's happening all over and not just SL.

 

[Drayke Newall]

12 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

I've noticed the same thing but then I'll hear someone say in local chat..'hit me up if you want to join our discord, skype, blah blah chat"  This is probably the biggest detriment to socializing in SL.  People are involved in offsite chatting apps.  They'll stand around in a spot for hours on end never interacting with anyone because they're busy chatting with people offsite.  I come into SL specifically to chat with people but it usually IS in IM since no one else is talking at the place I'm at.  I've often seen in profiles, too, "If you IM and I don't respond, I may be tabbed out or playing a game in another window".  Why exactly do they bother logging in?   

Unfortunately this just shows the lack of foresight Linden Lab have and it will just never improve. It has also been clear for years that chat has moved away from basic text to a hybrid system. Why are Linden Lab not utilising Discords development portal and approaching discord creators to integrate their chat platform into Second Life? Everything is there for it to happen. With such tools they could make second life a social hub for almost anything and anyone.

If I go to a club I could see all of the club discord chat as well as SL chat and vice versa. If I go to someone's SL profile I could see what game they are currently playing due to it being linked to discord and click it so either join them or watch them play whilst being in SL. Same goes with if they are streaming etc. If I IM someone who is clearly tabbed out and playing something else in another window they see my IM in discord and vice versa. If I IM someone inworld and they are offline it sends it to their discord as well as email. There are so many possibilities.

On another point, why haven't Linden Lab looked at their own chat system and modernised it? Look at the state of chat as it is now. User interface lacking modern appearance and ease of use, no in built emoji or meme system. No edit chat or delete chat line system. No reaction to post system. No emoji hype system. These are the things new users and many other existing users want as part of the chat system.

I mean just think, if Linden Lab actually offered emoji support and not go to 'x' website find the correct unicode to copy paste etc it would improve Second Life chat by leaps and bounds by adding personality and colour to chat. Emoji support in chat has been around since msn chat era in the 1990's yet SL, an advertised social platform doesn't even have it 25 years after msn introduced them into their chat program of which every other chat program since, other than second life, has had them.

Why don't they have a button next to chat that allows you quick access to all of your gestures rather than remembering either where they are in your inventory or what the specific character sequence is to activate them. By one simple button and menu system they could completely remove an entire outdated 'activate gesture' system improving on the user friendliness of the platform.

In your post you seem to wonder why people advertise their discord chat server, the above is why. It is a far more useful, functional and user friendly chat system than what SL offers. This is where it should be heading. This is where it should have been at 15 years ago. When they bought Desura it is where people hoped it was heading but it never eventuated to anything.

To put it simply Linden Lab have for too long stuck their heads in the sand and rather than doing their own research of current trends,they rely on their select users that attend development meetings to decide what is implemented into SL. Second Life is turning into an irrelevant platform simply because Linden Lab time and time again FAIL at implementing extremely basic features that other social platforms and their competitors offer.

EDIT:

Another prime example of basic take for granted features that we still haven't been given is basic italic, underline and bold formatting in notecards. Move with the times Linden Lab.

3 hours ago, animats said:

Dead mall in Mosh, in Zindra.

Someone mentioned dead malls.  Here's a rather nice futuristic one. The Zindra monorail runs through it. This was built by the Moles, and parceled up into little 400/m^2 stores. The stores are almost all empty, and some big landlord has bought up all the empty spaces. They're for sale, for about L$125/m^2.

Something has gone wrong with the economics here.

One word... Marketplace. Linden Lab's lack of incentive for marketplace stores to have an inworld presence has meant what used to be a necessity for a creator to sell their product has become a liability. Consequently malls and stores get closed leaving a vast emptiness of land that looks bad to any new user coming into SL so they see a mess of empty land and leave.

Where Linden Lab should have made it so that, for example, if you own a inworld store you don't get market place fees or have a different premium level offering a merchant level whereby you get no marketplace fees with free land that needs to be linked to your MP store, they instead did nothing and has impacted on their prime method of making money and impacted on user retention.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Simo Vodopan]

6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I think my expectations were a lot higher for one of my first landlord's than it was for her.  I thought her sim was being ignored but she rolled with it.  What a surprise when it want BOOM! and the place filled up.  I was totally surprised because it just all of a sudden finally happened.  She was happy with it, rolling along.   She had a SL club and a roller rink too which keeps her busy on the weekends; she works rl during the week.  

It was weird how one day it just finally happened to her shopping mall.  The sim is still very bustling with life and activity - shoppers, browsers, or those visiting the park in the middle of the town square for some quiet time.  I think it was her club and the group that went with the club that finally took off.  

It does take patience and just rolling with it and wait and see.  

Yeah, from my experiences when you're actively searching for something it's less likely to happen and when you're not it's more likely to come at you when you least expect it and it leaves a great feeling 'randomly' stumbling upon something. Somehow it seems like life is it's own living entity and knows our desires and fears and manifests them accordingly at it's own leisure. It might sound crazy but I've noticed alot of weird 'happenings' like that go on with me.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Simo Vodopan

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Unfortunately this just shows the lack of foresight Linden Lab have and it will just never improve. It has also been clear for years that chat has moved away from basic text to a hybrid system. Why are Linden Lab not utilising Discords development portal and approaching discord creators to integrate their chat platform into Second Life? Everything is there for it to happen. With such tools they could make second life a social hub for almost anything and anyone.

If I go to a club I could see all of the club discord chat as well as SL chat and vice versa. If I go to someone's SL profile I could see what game they are currently playing due to it being linked to discord and click it so either join them or watch them play whilst being in SL. Same goes with if they are streaming etc. If I IM someone who is clearly tabbed out and playing something else in another window they see my IM in discord and vice versa. If I IM someone inworld and they are offline it sends it to their discord as well as email. There are so many possibilities.

On another point, why haven't Linden Lab looked at their own chat system and modernised it? Look at the state of chat as it is now. User interface lacking modern appearance and ease of use, no in built emoji or meme system. No edit chat or delete chat line system. No reaction to post system. No emoji hype system. These are the things new users and many other existing users want as part of the chat system.

I mean just think, if Linden Lab actually offered emoji support and not go to 'x' website find the correct unicode to copy paste etc it would improve Second Life chat by leaps and bounds by adding personality and colour to chat. Emoji support in chat has been around since msn chat era in the 1990's yet SL, an advertised social platform doesn't even have it 25 years after msn introduced them into their chat program of which every other chat program since, other than second life, has had them.

Why don't they have a button next to chat that allows you quick access to all of your gestures rather than remembering either where they are in your inventory or what the specific character sequence is to activate them. By one simple button and menu system they could completely remove an entire outdated 'activate gesture' system improving on the user friendliness of the platform.

In your post you seem to wonder why people advertise their discord chat server, the above is why. It is a far more useful, functional and user friendly chat system than what SL offers. This is where it should be heading. This is where it should have been at 15 years ago. When they bought Desura it is where people hoped it was heading but it never eventuated to anything.

To put it simply Linden Lab have for too long stuck their heads in the sand and rather than doing their own research of current trends rely on their select users that attend development meetings to decide what is implemented into SL. Second Life is turning into an irrelevant platform simply because Linden Lab time and time again FAIL at implementing extremely basic features that other social platforms and their competitors offer.

One word... Marketplace. Linden Lab's lack of incentive for marketplace stores to have an inworld presence has meant what used to be a necessity for a creator to sell their product has become a liability. Consequently malls and stores get closed leaving a vast emptiness of land that looks bad to any new user coming into SL so they see a mess of empty land and leave.

Where Linden Lab should have made it so that, for example, if you own a inworld store you don't get market place fees or have a different premium level offering a merchant level whereby you get no marketplace fees with free land that needs to be linked to your MP store, they instead did nothing and has impacted on their prime method of making money and impacted on user retention.

All that would do is further distance people in SL who use no chat at all.  It's already bad enough as it is but there are tons of people who never voice chat.  Never have and never will.  Making it easier would only alienate all of those people from those who do voice chat.  Inclusion makes more sense than exclusion.  Personally, I can see the downward spiral of SL local chat starting around the time voice became popular.  I think it was implemented in 07?  Not a ton of people were using it when I started in 09 so when I went places, people were actually talking to each other.  Slowly, over the years, more and more people have private voice chats either through SL or offsite.  Now everyone seems to be in their own private bubble.  Integrating it even more into SL?  Why?  I come to socialize not chit chat with people on discord.  Why bother logging in at all then?