Your approach to SL.

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm not gonna turn this thread into a BDSM tutorial or huge debate (I hope) but... "treats any person as less than human" can be part of a consensual kink. As can Gor, which isn't for me, which is kinda what I meant above. I don't see how RL Gor is do-able in the real world, but anyway. Not all of BDSM is about objectifying, but it is a part of it. And yeah, as I mentioned to Scylla in some other post a while back, I'd be one of those kinky types. In its place, in its context, only with my consent. And nope, disapproval of my choices doesn't shame me.

I understand what you mean about both Gor and parts of bdsm objectify women and with bdsm, men also.  My experience seems to be that it's a lot about the difference between being a submissive and being a slave.  That whole "slaves have no rights or limits" just sets off all kinds of alarms to me and not something I can even wrap my head around.

[Janet Voxel]

It's a complex subject that can be difficult to navigate. For me, I look at it like my avatar is a character in some kind of meta multi-verse. It's me, but its not quite. Sort of like how Jack Kerouac is Sal Paradise in On the Road except sometimes its a fantasy or horror or sci-fi....well you get the idea. It really just depends on which world I stepped in and how I decide to present myself and even how I feel at that particular moment. My avatar shares a lot of personality traits as me, but there is a degree of detachment and I do sometimes make decisions I wouldn't normally make just to make things interesting.

There's a couple of reasons why I don't look at my avatar as myself. Mainly it's because I can change my appearance. I know some people like to point out how much their avatar looks like them in real life and some people like to point out (if you share that information) that you don't look like your avatar! So there is a distinction there. I think there is a certain degree of detachment that comes with not looking like yourself, as others have put it already a certain degree of freedom. 

I used to MUSH in Uni. For those that don't know, its a form of online roleplay that is solely text based, usually based off of a table top RPG, like D&D, WoD or Shadowrun. Its really low tech, yet really immersive especially when you're roleplaying with really descriptive people. I think that element carries over for me. Second life sort of doesn't hold a candle to that kind of experience, so it's a little like RP-lite to me. But it really depends on the situation. If I'm with my friends, I'm usually myself...talking about real life things in SL. If I come across someone that starts emoting, I might indulge in that, but it depends on where they seem to be going with it. If I do go to a sim that's designated as an RP sim, I definitely am there with the intention of not being myself.

So I guess the best answer for me is: I'm mainly me mostly, but sometimes...not! 🤣

[Amina Sopwith]

10 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

You've thought about this more than I have, and it shows.  I tried Gor years ago, for a few days, with an alt, while I was also reading the book(s). Meh. Ick. Bad writing is the least of it. Sure, you get a lot of misogynistic jerks in BDSM, especially in SL, but that's not what it is about for most people in the lifestyle. It is either about kink (like being blindfolded) or it is about power exchange (which isn't necessarily sexual) or both. It also isn't about male dominance, or you wouldn't have all of those dominatrices running about. Oddly, there's a fairly good streak of feminism in the folks I know who are "real" lifestylers. 

So your points about Gor highlight the differences well.

Got any good Arabian Nights sims in mind?

I would still hate them if they were just silly stories, but they're didactic hate texts, as evidenced by the endless reams and reams about how this should all be real and outlining why abusive relationships are the best. 

I'm hugely out of the loop, I'm afraid. I'm barely ever inworld these days and when I am, I just wander around looking at things or enjoy an experience like going on safari or hang gliding. I used to love Kingdom of Sand and had some very sophisticated, long-term, plot-based RP there. It started to decline with so much lag and drama, but once the Goreans descended upon it, it was game over. When enough people there are doing Gorean RP and trying to ruin your experience because you're not RPing as a kajagoogoo, it's a Gor sim in all but name.

[Rowan Amore]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their replies.  Although RP has never been a integral part of my SL, I've often wondered about the appeal.  I've envied people who were able to completely immerse themselves in a character.  I'm just not able to think outside myself fast enough for it to be enjoyable.  Give.me a good chat, witty comebacks, sarcasm and I'm happy.  But it's always me and I wish at times, I could "be" someone else.

[Seicher Rae]

5 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I understand what you mean about both Gor and parts of bdsm objectify women and with bdsm, men also.  My experience seems to be that it's a lot about the difference between being a submissive and being a slave.  That whole "slaves have no rights or limits" just sets off all kinds of alarms to me and not something I can even wrap my head around.

That's a misunderstanding that is perpetuated by really bad mainstream fiction, like 50 Shades. Anyone who says they have no limits is a fool. Any dominant who says "eff your limits" is a fool (and I recently encountered one  ). Power exchange is a continuum, with scene bottoms being on the one end, where little or no power exchange happens, and 24/7 "slavery" on the other end, where it is near total power exchange. (I will debate that 100% is possible.) Everything inbetween is partial power exchange. In partial PE, limits are negotiated and everything is consensual. In TPE, 24/7, the limits are negotiated up front, some kind of contract (verbal/written) is done, and then the negotiation is done. "no limits" would be the dominant tells you to chop off your foot and you do. That's nuts. Many of us dislike the term "slave" for a lot of reasons. The other common one is "property" but I don't think that is any better. But, yeah, "slave" sets off all sorts of bells for all sorts of reasons, but lack of consent shouldn't be one.

[Amina Sopwith]

8 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their replies.  Although RP has never been a integral part of my SL, I've often wondered about the appeal.  I've envied people who were able to completely immerse themselves in a character.  I'm just not able to think outside myself fast enough for it to be enjoyable.  Give.me a good chat, witty comebacks, sarcasm and I'm happy.  But it's always me and I wish at times, I could "be" someone else.

Think of it as interactive storytelling/creative writing with yourself as one of the characters. I write stories in RL so it's natural to me, and I have to get inside the heads of characters to write them, even if they think very differently to me. I'm not an evil person just because I write an evil character, and I feel the same way in RP.

It's not everyone's bag, of course, and sadly it is ripe with drama for many reasons. But if you've ever had that experience of reading a book or seeing a film and imagining yourself as one of the characters...this is your chance. Though I've role-played plenty of characters who weren't wish-fulfilment, just necessary for the plot. Like actors.

[Luna Bliss]

42 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

But it's always me and I wish at times, I could "be" someone else.

What a fascinating topic you started....

If you're really interested in roleplaying there's lots of good info out there to help via googling 'increase your imagination'. I bet there's something in all of it that could work for you..

Edited September 1, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Janet Voxel]

12 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their replies.  Although RP has never been a integral part of my SL, I've often wondered about the appeal.  I've envied people who were able to completely immerse themselves in a character.  I'm just not able to think outside myself fast enough for it to be enjoyable.  Give.me a good chat, witty comebacks, sarcasm and I'm happy.  But it's always me and I wish at times, I could "be" someone else.

It's worth a try, like other people have said. Its more like acting and when its good, its really, really good. The problem with it is, it can be a slog because its a lot slower than chat or lite RP and sometimes (the part that gets to me) is some people are really, really bad at it. That little vein pops out of my temple when that happens. Its basically a gentleperson's agreement as to where the story goes and some people....have very little give when it comes to co-authoring a story.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm not an evil person just because I write an evil character, and I feel the same way in RP.

lol this reminds me of an incident with my brother. During the court proceedings where his wife was trying to paint him as some evil thing so she could keep custody of their child, she actually revealed the book he wrote which depicted an evil character in graphic detail as proof that he was also evil.    I can't believe her lawyer actually allowed this...

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What a fascinating topic you started....

If you're really interested in roleplaying there's lots of good info out there to help when via googling 'increase your imagination'. I bet there's something in all of it that could work for you..

 

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

It's worth a try, like other people have said. Its more like acting and when its good, its really, really good. The problem with it is, it can be a slog because its a lot slower than chat or lite RP and sometimes (the part that gets to me) is some people are really, really bad at it. That little vein pops out of my temple when that happens. Its basically a gentleperson's agreement as to where the story goes and some people....have very little give when it comes to co-authoring a story.

It would still have to be something where my character would mostly be me.  It's the thinking like someone else that has always been the sticking point.  

Yes, Janet.  I'd probably be that person making that vein pop out. I've actually stood in the shadow with my observer tag on watching/listening to some great RP.  Again, it goes back to not being comfortable as the center of attention.  It actually gives me the shivers and heart palpitations the few times I've tried.  I envy people who can do it easily.

[Solar Legion]

Hmm, a few interesting side conversations happening and I'll get to them when I am a bit more awake but for the "being a version of yourself in RP" one?

More than a decade ago now, I got my start with Online RP in AOL's designated (and member created, later) chats for RP. One of the 'characters' I used at one point was a stylized version of myself (fewer sight issues, somewhat taller, hair coloration from when I was younger). That went well enough but within a few RL days the poor sod ran into a Vampire derivative (simply weaker in Sunlight, not truly Undead) and ... Well suffice to say he was no longer Human.

I bring this up only as a cautionary thing: If you do ever decide to jump into RP with a character modeled off of you, be prepared for potential events like that. Or worse.

[Amina Sopwith]

7 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

It would still have to be something where my character would mostly be me.  It's the thinking like someone else that has always been the sticking point.  

Yes, Janet.  I'd probably be that person making that vein pop out. I've actually stood in the shadow with my observer tag on watching/listening to some great RP.  Again, it goes back to not being comfortable as the center of attention.  It actually gives me the shivers and heart palpitations the few times I've tried.  I envy people who can do it easily.

Most people's first RP character is basically them. Most authors' first novel is at least semi autobiographical. You develop  

You don't have to be the centre of attention in RP. I've done tons of RP, probably most, where I'm not the "central" character (if there even is one; there isn't always), I'm just part of the story. It's like being a supporting or character actor, or a bit parter. I suppose there does have to be a part of you that doesn't mind being looked at, so to speak, but it doesn't mean you're the leading lady. There's great pleasure in being part of the story. Quite often I've been a supporting or bit parter for someone who's trying out being pivotal for the first time, so I'm working on making them the central character, offering them nice open lines to work with and so on. 

Writing is generally a pretty solitary pursuit...it's really gratifying when you find a group of people you work well with to produce a satisfying group effort.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

17 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm not gonna turn this thread into a BDSM tutorial or huge debate (I hope) but... "treats any person as less than human" can be part of a consensual kink. As can Gor, which isn't for me, which is kinda what I meant above. I don't see how RL Gor is do-able in the real world, but anyway. Not all of BDSM is about objectifying, but it is a part of it. And yeah, as I mentioned to Scylla in some other post a while back, I'd be one of those kinky types. In its place, in its context, only with my consent. And nope, disapproval of my choices doesn't shame me.

I understand what you mean about both Gor and parts of bdsm objectify women and with bdsm, men also.  My experience seems to be that it's a lot about the difference between being a submissive and being a slave.  That whole "slaves have no rights or limits" just sets off all kinds of alarms to me and not something I can even wrap my head around.

I'm no fan of Freud, but he did toss out some lingo that I find useful. I might consider my kink to be my "id" and Snugs to be my "super ego" or moral compass. Maddy, the "ego" who effects external behavior, is stuck in the middle. My kink sometimes fantasizes about objectifying behavior that my moral compass abhors. Depending on context, my external behavior will be some mix of those two. In the presence of someone who shares my kinky interests, and who's moral compass is healthy, active and trustworthy, I can safely exhibit kinky behavior. I don't have to worry that my "abhorrent" desires will be taken "seriously" by the other, they're making the same moral calculations. In public settings like the forums, I am what you've been seeing for years.

What's important to note here is that, while I might objectify another person's id (for their pleasure), I also embrace their moral compass and the full person who's balancing the two in front of me. I respect and care about the person in the chair.

I am not pretending to be someone else here. The Maddy you see depends on my assessment of the situation...

The past and present wilt—I have fill’d them, emptied them,
And proceed to fill my next fold of the future.

Listener up there! what have you to confide to me?
Look in my face while I snuff the sidle of evening,
(Talk honestly, no one else hears you, and I stay only a minute longer.)

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

I concentrate toward them that are nigh, I wait on the door-slab.
Who has done his day’s work? who will soonest be through with his supper?
Who wishes to walk with me?

Will you speak before I am gone? will you prove already too late?

Walt Whitman (verse 51 of "Song of Myself")

 

 

I am large, I contain multitudes.

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

There's great pleasure in being part of the story. Quite often I've been a supporting or bit parter for someone who's trying out being pivotal for the first time, so I'm working on making them the central character, offering them nice open lines to work with and so on. 

Writing is generally a pretty solitary pursuit...it's really gratifying when you find a group of people you work well with to produce a satisfying group effort.

https://kimberlyhirsh.com/2015/09/04/improv-and-generosity.html

[Janet Voxel]

19 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

 

It would still have to be something where my character would mostly be me.  It's the thinking like someone else that has always been the sticking point.  

Yes, Janet.  I'd probably be that person making that vein pop out. I've actually stood in the shadow with my observer tag on watching/listening to some great RP.  Again, it goes back to not being comfortable as the center of attention.  It actually gives me the shivers and heart palpitations the few times I've tried.  I envy people who can do it easily.

No, no I don't mean like someone that doesn't know how to write a good emote. I've always found, people can tell that someone is new, so most people can work with that. It's writing, so it does take practice and once you've found your style...you got it. I don't look at it like being the center of attention, its very intimate to me and only involves a few people max before it gets out of control. The most people I would do a scene with would be like 5 and that's a lot!

There are realistic RP sims, they're usually community based RP sims where you can kind of be yourself, like I described before. That's a really good place to start actually. Because themed RP often has its own lore and rules and people can be kind of sticklers on those type of details.

I meant people behaving badly in other ways. I'll give you a couple of examples:

On some RP sims they use "systems" it might be a fighting sim or a capture sim. its basically a hud that gives you information and stats. Well some systems a female is weaker than a man and can't win any contest, that's where I figure...whats the point? Coming from a MUSH where the rules are the same for everybody and literally anything can happen depending on a roll of the dice, systems can feel a little cheap in SL. I used to do capture RP and fighting RP, except...I'd use a modded HUD so I could do the same things guys can do. OMG! People go ape%^$# if you win. I'm talking full meltdown. The last time, I did capture rp a guy just walked up to me and tried to capture me...no rp..no nothing and then had nerve to say "How come I can't capture you?" that was his first interaction. That made the vein in my temple come out. That's bad RP to me.

Or even Para-rp, some people do power-emotes where they suddenly do something you didn't consent to or you probably wouldn't let happen to your character. For example, a person suddenly slapping you or taking something from you, instead of going to slap you or attempting to take something from you. There's a lot of nuance there.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Janet Voxel
added a word

[Seicher Rae]

I was thinking about this topic while I was washing the dishes just now, because: I have no life. And I realized I misspoke in my original answer.

That led me to a search for the definition of persona (me not being a psychologist and all), and this bit (paraphrased): Persona is your public mask. It is who you present yourself to be, and you may have several, such as your work persona and your family persona. Persona can also be a written character aspect. Your personality, characteristics and other things make up your "true" self.

I said my SL (inc. forum) persona = RL and that is mostly, but not entirely, true.

My forum persona is much more the "real" me, without a mask, than either my inworld SL me or my RL me. You know how we all have inside conversations in our heads that for reasons of social harmony (and staying out of jail) that we don't express on the outside? My forum persona is much more likely to lose that filter. My forum persona sees BS and has no problem saying, "Wow, that's BS." Inworld and RL I'm much less likely to do that. The reasons for that are varied, but in general it has to do with me being less invested here, and so less to lose. When I first started posting in the forums, oh so long ago, my motives and so my words were quite different. I wanted to make friends in the forum. I wanted to belong. It *mattered* to me what people thought. Because of that I did a dumb thing, got locked into the sights of a crazy person and her enablers, and spent years being abused because of it. Since then I've developed a harder shell, have a more eff-it attitude. When I have let that slip, and thought I had "friends" here, I learned very painfully that I was mistaken. I do have friends who originated on the forums over the years, but... yeah. Some people here (past and present) suck.

That said, I still modulate on the forums. I still recognize there are people with various issues behind the monitors. I do not say "I'm just an asshat, so you have to take me as I am" BS. This is still a community. But yeah, forum me is a different persona than either inworld or RL me, for better or worse. The mask is slipped. But I'm also freer with the jokes, the quips, the banter, the helpful comments, the empathy, the tangential derails, the...  in forum posts.

FWIW.

Also, I identify so closely with Seicher/Seeker that early on I could NOT role play with that avatar. I had to create alts for that. If I wanted to be a mermaid, or a cat, I had to create a separate account. They still operated with MY personality, so their personas are filtered through me. Just different aspects of me. I really like my cat persona.

I got over being able to slip on various avatars with Seicher, but honestly, it still isn't comfortable role playing with her. I recently dug out a couple of alts, spent the $$$$$$ to kit them out all meshy, and hope to do some RP with them. In that way Seicher is more like RL me. I still have masks. The alts will do things Seicher won't because... 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'm no fan of Freud, but he did toss out some lingo that I find useful. I might consider my kink to be my "id" and Snugs to be my "super ego" or moral compass. Maddy, the "ego" who effects external behavior, is stuck in the middle. My kink sometimes fantasizes about objectifying behavior that my moral compass abhors. Depending on context, my external behavior will be some mix of those two. In the presence of someone who shares my kinky interests, and who's moral compass is healthy, active and trustworthy, I can safely exhibit kinky behavior. I don't have to worry that my "abhorrent" desires will be taken "seriously" by the other, they're making the same moral calculations. In public settings like the forums, I am what you've been seeing for years.

What's important to note here is that, while I might objectify another person's id (for their pleasure), I also embrace their moral compass and the full person who's balancing the two in front of me. I respect and care about the person in the chair.

I am not pretending to be someone else here. The Maddy you see depends on my assessment of the situation...

The past and present wilt—I have fill’d them, emptied them,
And proceed to fill my next fold of the future.

Listener up there! what have you to confide to me?
Look in my face while I snuff the sidle of evening,
(Talk honestly, no one else hears you, and I stay only a minute longer.)

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

I concentrate toward them that are nigh, I wait on the door-slab.
Who has done his day’s work? who will soonest be through with his supper?
Who wishes to walk with me?

Will you speak before I am gone? will you prove already too late?

Walt Whitman (verse 51 of "Song of Myself")

Wow Maddy, this is going to take some serious study.  I hope I have time today..

[Akane Nacht]

6 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

No, nothing like that tension.

You were referring to what I said, and I was elaborating. Since I said it, I think I know what I meant.  

1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said:

Got any good Arabian Nights sims in mind?

Shadezar just opened last weekend. By the builder who made Kingdom of Sand long ago. Worth a visit just to see the lovely build!

[Amina Sopwith]

6 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

You were referring to what I said, and I was elaborating. Since I said it, I think I know what I meant.  

I'm sure you know what you meant, but for various reasons I think it was a false equivalence.

Thank you for the heads up, I didn't know Kora was still around. I'll check it out.

 

[Cinos Field]

SL me is the same as RL me, just wearing a different mask. It's at least as much me as the me that goes to work and pretends to be a professional adult is.

Idealized physically, sure... But still!

[Akane Nacht]

4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm sure you know what you meant, but for various reasons I think it was a false equivalence.

Thank you for the heads up, I didn't know Kora was still around. I'll check it out.

 

Whatever brings you joy.

Baal is the builder, Kora was the scripter. Not involved in this afaik. This sim has no meter, just freeform RP.

Enough derail 😄 cheerio

[Silent Mistwalker]

37 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

https://kimberlyhirsh.com/2015/09/04/improv-and-generosity.html

Sometimes it pays to follow links at the bottom of a page. Thank you for this.

https://usdac.us/nativeland

[SarahThe Wanderer]

17 hours ago, karynmaria said:

I don't have a huge circle of friends either, I have like two on my friends list.    I am pretty well the same in world and here, I don't do RP.    I am mostly here just to play grown up barbie and decorate and landscape my properties on my own and by myself.  That is what I like to do in SL.

I feel like I'm reading myself.

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

https://kimberlyhirsh.com/2015/09/04/improv-and-generosity.html

Thank you for the link.  I hope if I do decide to venture into RP, that I'll be able to find people both generous and patient.

[Lindal Kidd]

My approach to SL...