Seicher Rae Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BelindaN said: a fantastic post with effing BULLET POINTS! Wow. Thank you so much for this! Any chance of posting a picture? Edited August 23, 2020 by Seicher Rae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelindaN Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 No excuse required for posting a picture................... @Seicher Rae 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobilly Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Coincidentally I just did a blog post on Geralt. The warning given by Marianne Little can be repeat here + there's butt cleavage 😉 https://billybeaverhausen.com/2020/08/21/dabbling-with-geralt-episode-xvi/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said: I have known people who have the Slink body, and as Skell says in his blog, support for this body by clothing designers is waning. This actually makes me pretty sad. For one, Slink always gave me my preferred body shape, as I love that lean swimmer's torso and broad shoulders. In addition, Siddean has been at the forefront of many new things in SL, and was the first 'big name creator' to take the huge risk of releasing a single-layer BoM-only mesh body. I admire her immensely for forging her own path and sticking to it, but also for being willing to listen to and consider input from her customers (case in point: her addition of the extra materials layer for the Redux bodies, which people asked her for). Clothing is still being rigged for Slink, but - as I mentioned in my blog - you need to know where to look first of all, and then you need to visit mainstores. Many guys only shop the big menswear events these days, and Slink support there is a rare beast indeed. So advance knowledge of the stores still consistently rigging for Slink in their new releases (since there's still plenty of older Slink-rigged stuff out there) is rather crucial. I've been considering a research project on that for the blog, as a matter of fact. However, one thing that's surprising me a bit is that I'm starting to see a new development: some male clothing designers are beginning to drop Gianni in favour of Legacy, and are rigging only for Jake and Legacy. It's only a very small subset of slightly niche menswear designers that I'm seeing this from at the moment, but it's interesting, not least for the fact that the Legacy mesh dev kit hasn't been easy to get hold of, what with the current requirement to link an Adobe account in order to obtain the kit. Edited August 23, 2020 by Skell Dagger 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Luminos Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: Again: you seem to know plenty of stores which still support SLink in their new releases. Why don't you name a few? The "big guys" like Cold Ash, Dead Wool, Gabriel, Lapointe & Bastchild etc. certainly don't. I can name at least one - Caligula is still including Slink in most of their new releases. They've had quality issues with some of their stuff in the past but it seems that those have been resolved with their newer releases. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/158333 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillith Hapmouche Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Let's say that Caligula is... special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I can't tell if there are more people or less people making Slink clothes. I often find new designers that are supporting Slink. I also find some that have added Slink and others that have dropped Slink. I also find out a good number of the forum peeps wear Slink. So, I think the surveys that show Slink as 2nd to 4th or 5th most popular tend to be about only those of us that read blogs. Here on the forum only about a thousand... maybe 2 thousand... people post and read the stuff here. The result is we all base our opinions on extremely small samples. While we can't actually know, I doubt it matters. If your favorite designer doesn't support Slink then that is a problem. There are clothes by Scandalous that I would love to have. But, many of those items are Maitreya only. But, I can't stand the weird Maitreya shoulders. I suspect there are more people like me with similar taste in avatar-bodies and clothes. But, how many? I suspect only the Lab could answer that question and they are busy doing other things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 it's not really surprising i think that there's less support for Slink. As frequent beach visitor i rank Slink, in numbers, just one level above the standard avi, and at the same level as Adam/exmachina ..nearly nobody using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillith Hapmouche Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said: I also find some that have added Slink and others that have dropped Slink. I also find out a good number of the forum peeps wear Slink. The male body? Who has re-added their support after dropping it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PermaRuthed Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: 12 hours ago, Marianne Little said: They may not have the sizes in the last round of The Mens Department, but their mainstore has them. That's some pretty idiotic marketing. I find that the newer releases at events no longer have Slink support. If the mainstores have Slink stuff they would be the older products. 5 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: Let's say that Caligula is... special? Special in what way? I honestly don't understand what you mean. I took a peek over there and the clothes look like normal everyday wear. I mean they don't look like specialized niche styles to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Luminos Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 44 minutes ago, PermaRuthed said: Special in what way? I honestly don't understand what you mean. I took a peek over there and the clothes look like normal everyday wear. I mean they don't look like specialized niche styles to me. They used to be. Caligula used to speciallise in military & police uniforms, sports team uniforms and other very hyper-masculine clothing, and the quality was, at best, hit-or-miss. They've lately gone more mainstream and have a whole new range with much improved quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PermaRuthed Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said: They used to be. Caligula used to speciallise in military & police uniforms, sports team uniforms and other very hyper-masculine clothing, and the quality was, at best, hit-or-miss. They've lately gone more mainstream and have a whole new range with much improved quality. Ah, okay. Got it now. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeotetra Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: Again: you seem to know plenty of stores which still support SLink in their new releases. Why don't you name a few? The "big guys" like Cold Ash, Dead Wool, Gabriel, Lapointe & Bastchild etc. certainly don't. Information is there check it out yourself 11 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: Skell says in his blog, support for this body by clothing designers is waning. So can we please stop the PR for Slink? This is not a thread about just Slink, pro OR con. Yeesh. Skell? who is that sorry not sure, I am free to voice what i believe thank you as much as you to your view call it what you will pr or not Until other creators can produce more optimized body and heads, slink is better in that respect. Edited August 24, 2020 by Zeotetra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zeotetra said: Information is there check it out yourself Skell? who is that sorry not sure, I am free to voice what i believe thank you as much as you to your view call it what you will pr or not Don't know what your deal is dude, nor do I care. Perhaps you should read the thread you are posting in. Skell Dagger, and his blog, were referenced in the very beginning and he has been commenting consistently throughout. Unlike you, he has no axe to grind, knows what he's talking about, and has been staying on topic, and oh yeah, he's been HELPFUL. Concept. Yep, you can believe as much as you want. Post it even. That doesn't make it right, nor does it stop other people from calling your BS what it is, BS. Thank youuuuuuuuuu. ♥ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeotetra Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: Don't know what your deal is dude, nor do I care. Perhaps you should read the thread you are posting in. Skell Dagger, and his blog, were referenced in the very beginning and he has been commenting consistently throughout. Unlike you, he has no axe to grind, knows what he's talking about, and has been staying on topic, and oh yeah, he's been HELPFUL. Concept. Yep, you can believe as much as you want. Post it even. That doesn't make it right, nor does it stop other people from calling your BS what it is, BS. Thank youuuuuuuuuu. ♥ I don't know what your deal is, do you enjoy targeting a person? That's better now i know the full name, could of been a number of skell out there so thanks for that. I am more into swords than an axe kind you do not know me so well it seems hmm. You can also believe what you want too and i agree bachelor of science is bachelor of science no no thank you 😉 Edited August 24, 2020 by Zeotetra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeljane42 Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: However, one thing that's surprising me a bit is that I'm starting to see a new development: some male clothing designers are beginning to drop Gianni in favour of Legacy, and are rigging only for Jake and Legacy. It's only a very small subset of slightly niche menswear designers that I'm seeing this from at the moment, but it's interesting, not least for the fact that the Legacy mesh dev kit hasn't been easy to get hold of, what with the current requirement to link an Adobe account in order to obtain the kit. It was/is the same with female clothing creators dropping Freya support. Lots and lots did in favor of Legacy, and it has started last year when Freya had pretty solid 2nd place in terms of popularity. I even saw some creators trying to drop Maitreya too for a couple of releases, but all went back and updated those releases later and new ones all had Maitreya sizes since then, I guess losing ~70% of sales wasn't so nice. Pretty interesting that Gianni is getting dropped instead of Jake, though. Belleza are unbelievable slow with their updates as usual and still don't have a "native" BoM update. --- As for the making male avi I don't have much input, however I almost never see anyone using slink bodies anymore, male or female ones. An occasional Hourglass on girls here and there, but even that became a rarity and got replaced by Legacy, which can achieve similar shape rather easily and doesn't look so blocky. And let's be realistic here, when an average long/mid hairstyle with 4 built-in styles from most big and popular hair creators often has over 500k triangles in it, the body's complexity is the last thing anyone should care about, it's drop in the ocean compared to the rest. P. S. And occasionally you will bump into people wearing that kind of stuff (see attached picture) that has pretty low complexity (until LL changes complexity formula at least), so you won't even notice that someone wears a single attachment (it's an old non bento mesh head from one very big creator, the version which does support upgrades via animation packs) that is heavier than 6-10 avatars combined (20+ if they wear lighter bodies and single style hair). Bento was a big step forward in making SL better in that regard, because back in 2015-2016 people with such heads were very common. Edited August 24, 2020 by steeljane42 late night typos and quote failing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdminGirl Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 When did Legacy become so popular? I was under the impression it had a bad reputation because it was maybe linked to TMP? I wasn't around long enough to know the whole history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise Voxel Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, AdminGirl said: When did Legacy become so popular? I was under the impression it had a bad reputation because it was maybe linked to TMP? I wasn't around long enough to know the whole history. Their reputation isn't great but I guess there are people who didn't know about that and still like their bodies, or people who are willing to put it in the past. They also gave out a very good dollarbie mesh body, which might have helped people become aware of who they were and improve their reputation a bit. I think I heard people praising the shape of them and how realistic they look or something. You'll have to ask someone who owns the body. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdminGirl Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Thanks @SassySam87 I'm less confused now 🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Little Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: Again: you seem to know plenty of stores which still support SLink in their new releases. Why don't you name a few? The "big guys" like Cold Ash, Dead Wool, Gabriel, Lapointe & Bastchild etc. certainly don't. I understand you want to "take" me, but have you seen L&P marketplace? Sorting newest first. Cold Ash has many stages, first standard sized and fitmesh. So were TMP added. Then a period with TMP and Slink. So TMP, Slink and Signature Gianni. Then TMP, Slink, Signature Geralt and Belleza. And now only Gianni, Legacy and Belleza. The period where they had Slink, is still much better quality with original mesh than those who use a mesh kit today and just texture it. Gianni has become the male Maitreya, with male Belleza as second and male Legacy on the rising. It is a bit sad, because we are forced to buy only a few mesh bodies to get new clothes. So designers drop making clothes for the rest. I am comparing big shoppers to small ones. If the goal for an avatar is to have 1-3 pants, 3-4 shirts and sweaters, 2-3 pair of shoes, one suit and a swimming trunk, then it is easy to outfit him. If it is one who go to every new event and buy new clothes every month, then it is a different case. I am not saying Slink is the best alternative. I am saying it is an alternative if a thin, slim body is very important, and the need for clothes is low. If he's buying a small wardrobe and is using it without much more shopping. For a male who want to shop events frequently, it would be wrong to buy Slink. On the other side, who knows what the designers rig for in 1-2 years. No one can guarantee that Gianni will have 100% support for ever. And based upon that Legacy has rising support now, should that be the safe buy? Nothing is a safe buy if a mesh avatar must have good support for it in years. Slink male came in 2015 I believe, and it's support has been sinking the last years, but up to 2017/2018 it had a good selection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Little Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 And I personally has supported Slink for years, but experience with the support in 2019 has disappointed me so much that I will not shop from Slink anymore for me or an alt. But it is many more that is satisfied with the support than me. I want to stay neutral with Slink as an alternative. It is hard to recommend anything else than Gianni when people come here and give zero information about what they need. Just say Gianni and be done with it. It is the "safe" one. With the information that the body should be thin, it is an alternative, and they need to know it's not much new support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillith Hapmouche Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Marianne Little said: I understand you want to "take" me Ermmm... actually, the weirdo squaller with the futile "get SLink! SLink rules them all!" attitude was supposed to put some value to their blabla. But apparently, that's not an option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeotetra Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 9 hours ago, steeljane42 said: As for the making male avi I don't have much input, however I almost never see anyone using slink bodies anymore, male or female ones. An occasional Hourglass on girls here and there, but even that became a rarity and got replaced by Legacy, which can achieve similar shape rather easily and doesn't look so blocky. And let's be realistic here, when an average long/mid hairstyle with 4 built-in styles from most big and popular hair creators often has over 500k triangles in it, the body's complexity is the last thing anyone should care about, it's drop in the ocean compared to the rest. I have seen a few but not as many as the others. How much better could it be if they just optimized all their work, but its easier just creating and spewing it out to the public....remembers that money song again. 3 hours ago, Marianne Little said: I personally has supported Slink for years, but experience with the support in 2019 has disappointed me so much that I will not shop from Slink anymore for me or an alt. But it is many more that is satisfied with the support than me. I want to stay neutral with Slink as an alternative. Ah sorry to hear that and how is your experience in 2020? 4 hours ago, Marianne Little said: I am not saying Slink is the best alternative. I am saying it is an alternative Notice folks seem to go with more muscular or over muscular, yes the slink is an alternative to that more of a swimmer's frame. If i see any other body or head beating it in the polygon count would state this, but as far as i can see slink seems to be good in that respect. 1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said: Ermmm... actually, the weirdo squaller with the futile "get SLink! SLink rules them all!" attitude was supposed to put some value to their blabla. But apparently, that's not an option. Whats with the name calling do you enjoy that, i bet you feel big now ooh big person woah, Slink information seen those around, haven't seen any rules though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 12 hours ago, Zeotetra said: I don't know what your deal is, do you enjoy targeting a person? LoL, dude... not to be all third grade, but you started it. Responding to a quote is a funny definition of targeting. Since you are here to promote Slink, and it is all Slink, all of the time with you, with ZERO help for the topic (which I started, btw)... Here's a thought: Start your own frikkin thread about Slink! Pontificate (look it up) away THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeotetra Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: LoL, dude... not to be all third grade, but you started it You just went 3rd grade congrats 9 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: Since you are here to promote Slink, and it is all Slink, all of the time with you, with ZERO help for the topic (which I started, btw)... Here's a thought: Start your own frikkin thread about Slink! Pontificate (look it up) away THERE. Promoting more like encouraging, could say your promoting other creators too. I have actually replied by posting the link and answered so zero help would be incorrect. Here's a thought no, i am replying to what i like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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