Do you think Second Life will ever be close to being as popular as it was in ‘07?

[ChinRey]

9 hours ago, JPG0809 said:

So Linden Lab brought up plans to bring SL to the cloud which can potentially increase the quality in which SL runs.

Sorry but what on earth makes you believe cloud hosting will increase the quality???

A cloud based CDN is a good idea but we already have that for many assets.

Moving the sim servers to the cloud is all about saving money and it will inevitably reduce, not increase the grid's performance. LL's big challenge is to minimize the quality reduction to keep people from complaining too  much about it.

Edited February 28, 2020 by ChinRey

[Sassy Kenin]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, my friend would really like to use Photoshop.  She's going to try the Gimp program but I cannot offer her any help on Gimp because I have never used Gimp and do not plan to.  She really wants to create and I do not know if Gimp is the right program for her.  

Your friend can get Affinity on Ebay between 55% to 75% off, got mine on it over a year ago, enjoying free lifetime updates too!  was around $25+tax

I never liked gimp myself, but like most software its a preference thing.

[Sassy Kenin]

51 minutes ago, JPG0809 said:

We’re there ever commercials for television? 😅

 

[Amina Sopwith]

1 hour ago, janetosilio said:

Good times!

If anyone knows of any other platform where they do a lot of RP circa SL 2007-10, please tell me. I don't care if the graphics aren't great, I would even go full text if necessary. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[LittleMe Jewell]

10 hours ago, JPG0809 said:

So Linden Lab brought up plans to bring SL to the cloud which can potentially increase the quality in which SL runs.

I think this is exciting because one of the biggest draw backs for people to dip their toes into this grid is that their system, no matter how good, have issues running the client without a huge amount of lag.

I don't know that the cloud move is going to increase performance much and I'm not sure it will increase quality either.  The viewer will still be on everyone's pc/laptop and thus still depend on the computer setup to determine the performance.

Side note on this comment:  "their system, no matter how good, have issues running the client without a huge amount of lag"
  Not true.  I almost never experience lag.  Only if I go to an event that has a ton of textures, ton of rezzed items and a ton of people.  Then the lag only lasts until I derender the people and reduce my graphics settings a bit.

 

[FairreLilette]

55 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Moving the sim servers to the cloud is all about saving money and it will inevitably reduce, not increase the grid's performance. LL's big challenge is to minimize the quality reduction to keep people from complaining too  much about it.

This sounds dreadful!  

I choose to become a Dinkie in SL, a tiny cat with human characteristics.  Me and other "tinies" come up on average to about the knee of a human avatar.

What I found out when becoming a Dinkie, the lag was gone....and my complexity I can run up to 200,000 or more if I wanted to and still no lag.  My human avatar seemed the main reason for the lag.

A better, less laggy human avatar is needed, imo.

Does BOM help the human avatars be less laggy at all?  

Still, I don't want a reduced quality SL.  

Edited February 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[kali Wylder]

One thing they can't fix is the gambling, which was a huge draw back when it was allowed.

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

One thing they can't fix is the gambling, which was a huge draw back when it was allowed.

I think there are still kinds of gambling here.  Some say Gachas are gambling.  I never saw it that way.   I can go to an arcade in rl and put in some money and a surprize prize comes out.  Well, this is for the kids in the family, not for me.  

I think gambling should be legalized though I do not personally care for it beyond a 20 linden throw at a sploder occasionally.   I heard sploders are no longer allowed but I see them occasionally on the grid.

Edited February 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

28 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I don't know that the cloud move is going to increase performance much and I'm not sure it will increase quality either.  The viewer will still be on everyone's pc/laptop and thus still depend on the computer setup to determine the performance.

Side note on this comment:  "their system, no matter how good, have issues running the client without a huge amount of lag"
  Not true.  I almost never experience lag.  Only if I go to an event that has a ton of textures, ton of rezzed items and a ton of people.  Then the lag only lasts until I derender the people and reduce my graphics settings a bit.

 

For us tinies, we can have 80+ on a sim and no one needs to be de-rendered nor graphics reduced.

But, I love being a Dinkie so it was a win-win for me.  

ETA:  Try using a tiny avatar or make yourself invisible when going shopping with lots of things rezzed, it may take away the lag altogether.  

Edited February 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

If anyone knows of any other platform where they do a lot of RP circa SL 2007-10, please tell me. I don't care if the graphics aren't great, I would even go full text if necessary. 

I hear tell the gorean grid is like that...

[Pussycat Catnap]

9 hours ago, Mollymews said:

there is about 40 million or so accounts from those days who don't log in anymore.  Even if say 1 or 2 million of the oldbies were to come back then it will put Linden in a good place. And us here now as well

A lot of those were never real accounts.

World of Warcraft often uses a similar stat. Some 973 billion accounts made... And McDonalds used to have that 'so many gazillion served' sign...

We have posters right here, some even getting quoted - who make the point. A lot of these old accounts are around on different names now.

Half of them are my alts anyway...

 

All MMOs have moved past the heyday. Not just SL, but also WoW, Everquest, RuneScape, Lineage, Ultima Online, MineCraft, Final Fantasy, etc... the easy boom times are gone. I can't remember the names of most of the ones that are dead, and several that are still around... What's that room-based chat one folks always come here from?

That SL is still stable speaks volumes.

I think it would do better if it shed more of the 'this is not a game' Boomer "games are for children so OMG our hobby can't be that" attitude... and accepted what it is: the longest stable sandbox MMO out there, with the best tools for a full unconstrained sandbox-MMO experience.

MMOers are always ranting in frustration that they can't find a sandbox MMO that lets them actually be creative... and yet it's been just to their side all this time...

 

[Janet Voxel]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

If anyone knows of any other platform where they do a lot of RP circa SL 2007-10, please tell me. I don't care if the graphics aren't great, I would even go full text if necessary. 

MUSH/MUX are your answer. No graphics, some dice rolling involved occasionally.

I used to play these:

https://play.arxgame.org/

http://horrormu.com/index.php/Main_Page
 

 

[Jeny Howlett]

i think it won't. The increaded toxicity ruins quite alot of the experience

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

MUSH/MUX are your answer. No graphics, some dice rolling involved occasionally.

I used to play these:

https://play.arxgame.org/

http://horrormu.com/index.php/Main_Page

My first experience with the internet and coding - writing one of those in the turn between 89-90 on stolen computer access with my autistic "geek friend" about a year before I was homeless. He's also the guy that made me realize white folks weren't the enemy.

MUSH is an interesting often ignored technology that is the precursor to so much of the modern internet. It's also one of the key bridges between things like 'table top D&D' and modern gaming. Video games before it likewise were basically rips of D&D - but it brought in the multiplayer that is the actual heart of roleplaying.

 

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

My first experience with the internet and coding - writing one of those in the turn between 89-90 on stolen computer access with my autistic "geek friend" about a year before I was homeless. He's also the guy that made me realize white folks weren't the enemy.

MUSH is an interesting often ignored technology that is the precursor to so much of the modern internet. It's also one of the key bridges between things like 'table top D&D' and modern gaming. Video games before it likewise were basically rips of D&D - but it brought in the multiplayer that is the actual heart of roleplaying.

 

It’s interesting you brought up MMOs while I was copying links for that post. MUDs/Mushes were the precursor to MMOs. a lot of the earliest MMOs were done by MUD players and they are basically Graphical MUDs. They’ve been enjoying a quiet resurgence with the low-tech gaming boom.

[Pussycat Catnap]

6 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

 a lot of the earliest MMOs were done by MUD players and they are basically Graphical MUDs.

Yep. There's a line you can draw from D&D to MMOs, and it curves and waves through SL as well (a fork, then merges back, and forks again, and back and forth).

SL is to a MUSH what Final Fantasy XIV is to a MUD.

 

And if I remember 1990 well enough... the attitude SLers and MMOers have at each other... was around between MUSHers and MUDers back then as well... And likely limited the potential of both.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Janet Voxel]

Just now, Pussycat Catnap said:

Yep. There's a line you can draw from D&D to MMOs, and it curves and waves through SL as well (a fork, then merges back, and forks again, and back and forth).

SL is to a MUSH what Final Fantasy XIV is to a MUD.

I’ve said many times SL is the perfect environment for a Mush. I’m surprised it never went in that direction or never took off in that direction.

[Amina Sopwith]

48 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I hear tell the gorean grid is like that...

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Selene Gregoire]

42 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I think it would do better if it shed more of the 'this is not a game' Boomer "games are for children so OMG our hobby can't be that" attitude... and accepted what it is: the longest stable sandbox MMO out there, with the best tools for a full unconstrained sandbox-MMO experience.

 

Is SL an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online)? Yes. Is SL a sandbox? Yes. Is SL a platform? Yes. Is SL a game? No.

Quote

MMOers are always ranting in frustration that they can't find a sandbox MMO that lets them actually be creative... and yet it's been just to their side all this time...

Which is why I always describe SL as a creative platform that is not a game. It's important people understand the difference otherwise they won't stay. It's one of the main reasons why retention is so low. People log in expecting to play a sandbox game only to find out it's nothing like a game and leave never to log in again.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Pussycat Catnap]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Is SL an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online)? Yes. Is SL a sandbox? Yes. Is SL a platform? Yes. Is SL a game? No.

OK Boomer. 😉

Basically it's everything a game is... but it's not a game... because games are bad. got it.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

6 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

OK Boomer. 😉

Basically it's everything a game is... but it's not a game... because games are bad. got it.

 

Yeah no. Don't be blaming me for things that happen before I was old enough to vote or even born.

That isn't what I said and you know it. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Adam Spark]

2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Is SL an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online)? Yes. Is SL a sandbox? Yes. Is SL a platform? Yes. Is SL a game? No.

Which is why I always describe SL as a creative platform that is not a game. It's important people understand the difference otherwise they won't stay. It's one of the main reasons why retention is so low. People log in expecting to play a sandbox game only to find out it's nothing like a game and leave never to log in again.

THIS.

The biggest difference in 2007 and now is there was a clear vision of what Second Life is/was in 2007. The vision for the future changed and the waters got muddied horribly. Linden Lab has done a great job in a lot of respects recently, backing away from gamifying (yes that is a word dangit) and focusing on community again to a degree (Bellissera is a step in the right direction like we haven't seen in years, in my opinion). But one major failure? New users have no idea what they are signing up for. They see 3D graphics and some of the other tech behind games and they assume SL is another one, and in turn try to "play" it as such, getting confused on what to do next, when the beauty of SL is the lack of a "next". How do you play SL? You don't. You reside in it. There is a reason why we are referred to as residents. We aren't players.

[Adam Spark]

3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

OK Boomer. 😉

Basically it's everything a game is... but it's not a game... because games are bad. got it.

 

Nobody is saying games are bad. One of the beautiful things about SL is you can play games within it. Linden Realms, hunts, Greedy, the list goes on. Gaming in Second Life is huge and that is fantastic.

Second Life, in and of itself, however, is not a game.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

7 hours ago, Mahala Roviana said:

I hope it doesn't. Sure I want SL to grow and become popular again, but I remember when it reached it's peak of popularity. SLag was horrible.

I have never had the severe lag I have had this past years since mesh was introduced.    Not even close.

[Marigold Devin]

15 hours ago, JPG0809 said:

 

Do you think Second Life will ever be close to being as popular as it was in ‘07?

 

So Linden Lab brought up plans to bring SL to the cloud which can potentially increase the quality in which SL runs.

I think this is exciting because one of the biggest draw backs for people to dip their toes into this grid is that their system, no matter how good, have issues running the client without a huge amount of lag.

So, say it did improve performance substantially (Though I’m not holding my breath) and people got into the idea of SL again, do you think it has the potential to spark a second wave of popularity like it did in the past? Reason I say this is because though there are other virtual worlds, none of them compare to SL other than maybe Sansar even though it’s in it’s baby stages.

 

 

 

Not with me. 2007 was great. 2008 was greater for me. And then it kind of went downhill. For me. 

I don't think it lost it's popularity for a lot of people though. It still had new users registering, some stayed, some did not, just like in 2007. I still see some avatars from pre-2007 still logging in and enjoying SLife, but a lot of them haven't got caught up in the mesh frenzy of a few years ago, let along having to change heads/feet/ears (ears?!?!?!).

The fact that some spin-off projects by the creators of Second Life did not exactly become successful, is probably down to the fact Second Life still was evolving (still is evolving all the time).

Is it not still as popular as it was in 2007 though?