Second Life on Steam?

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, animats said:

21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just bought this VR game that's a bit more active and I'm standing while slicing up menacing squares heading toward me with my super beam wands of light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV1sw4lfwFw

Beat Saber - simple, and a very good use of virtual reality goggles. It's like Dance Dance Revolution for upper body exercise.

1,317 users on Steam right now. Most of the successful VR games are like that - not too complicated, very responsive games.

That's it!  I keep killing the game though. I'm hitting all the squares and moving away from the walls..

Guess I'll have to read the directions

[KanryDrago]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's it!  I keep killing the game though. I'm hitting all the squares and moving away from the walls..

Guess I'll have to read the directions

Beat saber is a good game and a very simple game as in not complex to code....sprites....motion detection.....hand postion detection...the bare bones of vr, when something half as good and half as complex can be made in sansar then give us a shout

[Callum Meriman]

8 hours ago, animats said:

Beat Saber - simple, and a very good use of virtual reality goggles.

Ah! that's my cardio app

It's a lot of fun, and a lovely clear and very readable UI. I adore how there is a water ripple like effect when you press buttons.

Super responsive too. The sabres move in perfect position with your hands (unlike Sansar) and have great haptic feedback as you slice and dice.

(One day I will be as good as this guy - ok, maybe not)

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Parhelion Palou]

17 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

But also, might it be fixable with a change of internal "markets"? Could a single Sansar experience be subdivided into many... oh, let's call them "parcels"... sublet to different curators? (Maybe this already exists in Sansar, somewhere I haven't seen it?) Admittedly, the range of portal-free roaming would still be limited to an experience, but just giving experiences some multiple "landowner" variety might ease the single-vision claustrophobia we also find with SL island estates (with relief but a brief teleport away).

The problem with that is currently the experience owner is the only one who can edit the experience. Having to buy, place, and adjust objects for each of the curators would get to be really annoying.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:

The problem with that is currently the experience owner is the only one who can edit the experience. Having to buy, place, and adjust objects for each of the curators would get to be really annoying.

Thanks. Yeah, I thought about that after I posted, as well as coordinating the timing of experience edits even if multiple users were granted the ability to do it.

Now that I put it into words, that seems a pretty basic limitation for a WordPress of virtual spaces.

[Chic Aeon]

The ability to have more than one creator work in an experience at the same time is on the roadmap. Currently at least one team is working on experiences using a shared avatar.   

[Callum Meriman]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

Currently at least one team is working on experiences using a shared avatar.   

How are the Lab in terms of TOS/CS with sharing an avatar Chic? Turning a blind eye or is it allowed over there?

[Luna Bliss]

14 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

Beat saber is a good game and a very simple game as in not complex to code....sprites....motion detection.....hand postion detection...the bare bones of vr, when something half as good and half as complex can be made in sansar then give us a shout

Why would I only share something finalized or nearly so? The joy for me is seeing it develop. The wonder is lost if we only appreciate something in its final state and miss all the steps along the way. Sansar is my perfect little workshop to see this happening. Of course my personal building projects allow seeing 'process' for me, but where else can you see an entire VR platform develop..it's fascinating!
Only an idiot would criticize each step in the process, expecting it to be at its final stage before it can be.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

How are the Lab in terms of TOS/CS with sharing an avatar Chic? Turning a blind eye or is it allowed over there?

Very open.  The partners did this long ago though and possibly under another TOS.   At one point the SL and Sansar TOSes were the same but there was another Creator agreement in Sansar. When I joined that was gone and it was a very simple TOS there (right after the EU rules). When STEAM happened more was added to the Sansar TOS and some of the old Creator agreement was added back in (I was not happy about that).   

I haven't read the SL TOS lately but last time I did there were rules about "protecting" your account, not that you couldn't log in to the same account (hence MANY store accounts that are used by various partners in a store here).  So things change all the time both there and here. Many rules that were -- are no longer.  

You can read the Sansar TOS from the webpage. 

[Bree Giffen]

I love Beat Saber! It's totally an exercise game. I've also started playing Astrobot Rescue which really shows how beautiful a platforming game (ala Mario Bros) can be in VR. 

[Callum Meriman]

5 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I've also started playing Astrobot Rescue which really shows how beautiful a platforming game (ala Mario Bros) can be in VR. 

I'd love to play that but it's PSVR only. Boooo!

[Klytyna]

Time for the Vom-Cam Chairobics fans to take their virtual workouts off to a derail thread?
 

[Daniel Voyager]

2 weeks now since Sansar launched on Steam and here are the latest stats...

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Daniel Voyager said:

2 weeks now since Sansar launched on Steam and here are the latest stats...

 

Not arguing with the graphs but would like to know where the data came from and what it represents.  It can't be top concurrency as I know for a fact that on Dec 10th there were 100ish people in Sansar in public experiences at one time - mostly because of a special comedy event.   That doesn't seem to show up at all on the graph.  

 

Since there are SO many ways of collecting statistics, it is good to explain what the charts mean.   For example the STEAM charts only count folks logging in via STEAM.  Many charts only count folks in public and open (in the Atlas) experiences. Some inside intel counts everyone but we never see that :D.

 

[Luna Bliss]

24 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Many charts only count folks in public and open (in the Atlas) experiences. Some inside intel counts everyone but we never see that :D.

Yes, I suspect there are far more people online than what the count on published Experiences reveals.
It's the same with SL...most people are messing around on their own sim or building platform -- what if those statistics didn't show up for the count and only visiting others sims registered for concurrency. No doubt concurrency would be way lower than it is.

[ChinRey]

48 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Not arguing with the graphs but would like to know where the data came from and what it represents.

...

For example the STEAM charts only count folks logging in via STEAM.

I'm not sure where Daniel got those curves from either but the last one matches the data from Steam.

[Klytyna]

44 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

For example the STEAM charts only count folks logging in via STEAM.

 

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I suspect there are far more people online than what the count on published Experiences reveals

So...

Basically, what you two are saying is...

Project Stupid on Steam is a run-away success, because 40 million Steam gamers have all logged in without using Steam, and are currently HIDING in Uncountable-Project-Stupid-Stealth-Mode building their commercially successful Experiences, and soon(tm) Project Stupid will be making SO MUCH MONEY, that LL will be able to lower SL land prices to $10 a region?

Hmmm... I think the BS Detectors went off when you two posted... AGAIN...

Yeah, Steam figures only show people who log in via Steam, that's kind of the point...

Project Stupid on Steam...

Steam figures show that Steam users are NOT logging in via Steam in vast numbers, and the published figures for concurrency for Project Stupid, are DREADFULLY LOW and getting LOWER.

There's been a small number of "pro-Stupid" reviews, by people who have pinned their hopes on Stupid as their new source of FREE MONEY from the internet, and who are desperate to get RL rich off a game again.

And a steadily but slowly growing list of "Anti-Stupid" reviews from Steamers who bothered to try it, once...

 

[Sandy Schnook]

I love SL , I love Linden Labs for this place we can live in, but here's what I see in regards to Sansar on Steam.  The Sansar forums, after the initial rush, gets maybe one new post every two or three days.  I have a few games on Steam, and this is telling me that most Steam users are not even interested.  Most don't even care enough to bother trashing it if it's not for them.  I've seen games and programs on Steam trolled and trashed or loved and praised, but not nearly this much disinterest.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Sandy Schnook
Clarity

[Luna Bliss]

[Klytyna]

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

CONGRATULATIONS!

You have FINALLY understood the reaction of most Steam users to Project Stupid!

 

[Callum Meriman]

12 hours ago, Klytyna said:

There's been a small number of "pro-Stupid" reviews, by people who have pinned their hopes on Stupid as their new source of FREE MONEY from the internet, and who are desperate to get RL rich off a game again.

I knew you would look! <grin>

12 hours ago, Sandy Schnook said:

this is telling me that most Steam users are not even interested

Pretty much. There are way less bad reviews then I thought there would be by now. This can only happen when people utterly ignore it.

 

I wonder at what point Ebbe will say "well crap, this really is a money pit" and try to sell it to someone?

With few delivered features of the SL15 2018 promises, (and with Grumpities recent admission that they didn't have the resources to finish the estate manager improvements) it would seem that not enough money is being put into the primary game.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[animats]

8 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

With few delivered features of the SL15 2018 promises, (and with Grumpities recent admission that they didn't have the resources to finish the estate manager improvements) it would seem that not enough money is being put into the primary game.

That's what worries me - Sansar, the Money Drain. They put millions of dollars and years of work into something that has about 30 users. Did Sansar bleed LL dry to the point that SL is at risk?

Let's face it, LL's 2018 plan for SL was rather unambitious, and even that's behind schedule. They got animesh working. (So far, nobody is doing much with it, but it's early yet.) They're still working on EEP, so we can have more interesting skies and weather. (Unclear if there's much demand for that; you can do a lot with the existing system, but few do.) They're struggling with "last names", which seems to result in extensive bikeshedding. That's about it on the tech side.

No big improvements to improve new user retention. No fixes to hard bugs, like region crossings and slow frame rate. No major modernizations of the technology. No visible marketing effort. (None for Sansar, either. Look up "Sansar" in Google.)

At the last Server User Group meeting, I told Oz Linden that it's all up to the SL team now. Sansar has failed. SL is the future of Linden Labs, and they need to act like it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, animats said:

That's what worries me - Sansar, the Money Drain. They put millions of dollars and years of work into something that has about 30 users. Did Sansar bleed LL dry to the point that SL is at risk?

Let's face it, LL's 2018 plan for SL was rather unambitious, and even that's behind schedule. They got animesh working. (So far, nobody is doing much with it, but it's early yet.) They're still working on EEP, so we can have more interesting skies and weather. (Unclear if there's much demand for that; you can do a lot with the existing system, but few do.) They're struggling with "last names", which seems to result in extensive bikeshedding. That's about it on the tech side.

No big improvements to improve new user retention. No fixes to hard bugs, like region crossings and slow frame rate. No major modernizations of the technology. No visible marketing effort. (None for Sansar, either. Look up "Sansar" in Google.)

At the last Server User Group meeting, I told Oz Linden that it's all up to the SL team now. Sansar has failed. SL is the future of Linden Labs, and they need to act like it.

Please tell us detailed information about Linden Lab's budgets and business plans and how the current situation compares to their projections, as you apparently know these things intimately.

And if you don't know? Maybe you're not qualified to talk about them.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, animats said:

Let's face it, LL's 2018 plan for SL was rather unambitious, and even that's behind schedule. They got animesh working. (So far, nobody is doing much with it, but it's early yet.) They're still working on EEP, so we can have more interesting skies and weather. (Unclear if there's much demand for that; you can do a lot with the existing system, but few do.) They're struggling with "last names", which seems to result in extensive bikeshedding. That's about it on the tech side.

No big improvements to improve new user retention. No fixes to hard bugs, like region crossings and slow frame rate. No major modernizations of the technology. No visible marketing effort. (None for Sansar, either. Look up "Sansar" in Google.)

Wow, I disagree with you on every point. That’s pretty rare.

[Luna Bliss]

 

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

So...

Basically, what you two are saying is...

Project Stupid on Steam is a run-away success, because 40 million Steam gamers have all logged in without using Steam, and are currently HIDING in Uncountable-Project-Stupid-Stealth-Mode building their commercially successful Experiences, and soon(tm) Project Stupid will be making SO MUCH MONEY, that LL will be able to lower SL land prices to $10 a region?

Hmmm... I think the BS Detectors went off when you two posted... AGAIN...

I've never said that Sansar is a roaring success at this point, or even that I'm certain it will be. I'm only pointing out an error in computing concurrency as the numbers don't show everyone who is working in Sansar at any particular moment, and instead only reveals who is in a published Experience. I've also pointed out that, depending on what Sansar will end up being used for, concurrency might not be as important as it is for other virtual venues (for example, if Sansar is used in the way personal WordPress websites are used...these websites are useful for business or personal purposes but we don't expect loads of visitors).

I feel excited about Sansar because I think it's a good plan and will be the way VR is utilized in the future, and I think it's way too soon to claim Sansar has failed. But whether LL will implement their plan well, or whether the time is right for such a preponderance of VR is another matter.