Will The mesh project bodies and heads

[Chase01]

5 minutes ago, MaggiJin said:

I would like to mention the body that i don't own and was asked to vote for was infact tonic, if that sheds some light on things.

Who asked you to do this?

[MaggiJin]

2 minutes ago, Chase01 said:

Who asked you to do this?

I don't remember their names because i didn't really bother to, but it was 3 people asking something along the lines of "Can you pls vote for tonic cause i want more clothes for tonic" and you know if they asked me i wasn't the only one.

[Rhonda Huntress]

53 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

 

Yup, and working HUDs also like this one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/AV-Inspect-HUD-Tetranodo/13775567

And a few FREEBIE HUDs that scan nearby avies and show profiles with the option to see all attachments, even if object-sitting. My personal favorite is Fashion Spy, but was available only for a limited time so I can't get it for my alts.

I use the free (and full perm) What Is She Wearing HUD.  If you get this, be sure to get the free one because there are others that are reselling it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

14 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I don't think there is any script that an detect what attachments someone is wearing.

Attachments (non-HUD) can be detected, but I'm pretty sure there isn't anything that can detect worn system layers or mesh appliers.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 3/19/2018 at 2:59 AM, Gadget Portal said:

I have to wonder if LL would get involved and do something if they actually do shut off the servers and render all those bodies useless. That'll be a lot of customers left in the cold.

We can't know what the Lab will do. We do know they have a very strong aversion to breaking content. So, their doing anything that would break TMP content is way unlikely.

Recently the Web User Group has been talking to the Lab about cleaning stuff out of the marketplace belonging to designers no longer in SL. Also, for things that no longer work, scams - empty boxes.., and other generally annoying stuff in the MP. The Lindens have been thinking about how to do that. So, we might see unsupported products disappear from the MP.

[Paul Hexem]

13 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

We can't know what the Lab will do. We do know they have a very strong aversion to breaking content. So, their doing anything that would break TMP content is way unlikely.

Recently the Web User Group has been talking to the Lab about cleaning stuff out of the marketplace belonging to designers no longer in SL. Also, for things that no longer work, scams - empty boxes.., and other generally annoying stuff in the MP. The Lindens have been thinking about how to do that. So, we might see unsupported products disappear from the MP.

The US Copyright office has actually been considering an exemption to the DMCA for "online games" that are no longer supported by their creators, basically so that people can restore functionality to them.

If that goes through, then I suspect abandoned products on the MP may also fall into the exemption. Would be nice if LL opened up the permissions on stuff when/if that happens.

[Chase01]

21 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Attachments (non-HUD) can be detected, but I'm pretty sure there isn't anything that can detect worn system layers or mesh appliers.

You are correct. There are no detection systems for appliers and system layers.

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 3/21/2018 at 8:08 AM, Chase01 said:

So why suggest an alternative idea that is terrible? lmao

I'm an engineer...

I need to fully outline and explain an idea if I am to tear it down... so we can all understand why it is bad.

If you say something is bad without first outlining it in enough detail, why be believed?

This should have been obvious from the text of my post should one actually read it, where I called the idea a bad one after detailing it.

 

(There is a popular note on the internet: "TL:DR" <- to a trained mind, this reads as a person who is willfully ignorant. Discussion of ideas requires detail, or we're all just stumbling around in uninformed opinions.)

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Pussycat Catnap

[Chase01]

So please do tell; what are we so willfully ignorant about?

9 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

If you say something is bad without first outlining it in enough detail, why be believed?

This is true, having detail is a great basis for adding texture to a statement. Although I think it is also equally plausible to say that some things go without saying (without further need of explanation). Although not a good idea for the reasons you pointed out; you still believed it would provide "solid data" which is debatable, but the reason you made the suggestion. If we did this, we could get the data we needed for a more accurate assessment, but its bad because of xyz. I am saying its bad on bad, so why bother to begin with. It goes without saying.

You're right, creators only need to know what does the market penetration look like for the products available on the market. They can then decide if they want to create for the masses or focus on a niche. I think it would be reasonable to assume that given a larger pool that Maitreya would still be the leader. However, I think it would be beneficial to see how some of these other bodies do in comparison given that some of them are within close margin of each other.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Chase01

[Pussycat Catnap]

Yes Maitreya would be leader as the larger market. If I were an active merchant I would really want to know what the top 3, maybe 4, bodies my buyers were using - so I could focus my efforts. I would likely then try out a 'niche of the cycle'... and add in one 'odd body that I had the dev kit for' for each such cycle... A cycle being every so many products I released...
- that would be my attempt to see if I was missing some demand somewhere... BUT that depends on just how hard it is to support multiple bodies.

I hear from some comments that it is a LOT of work to make all the multiple body stuff, and then I go to a store of another brand and see them putting out for a half dozen or more... and I wonder how they pull that off.

 

All things said though... I am actually rather surprised that the merchants don't seem to have some organize plot going on to determine what brands are best selling... if they all got together and said "I may hate you for selling to people that would otherwise buy X from me... but we BOTH benefit if we sit down together and figure out the demand... so let's see how we can team up on that."

I dunno... maybe they do... and we just don't realize it.

Some others have now corrected me on the point about being able to detect what attachments someone is wearing... So with some clever scripting you could scan everyone landing in your venue, find out what folks actually wear... and then know where to focus your efforts. Now the question becomes... do you share this data with your competitors in the hopes of getting the same data from them for a larger sample? Do you convince social hangouts to do some scanning for you as well - or do you ignore those as you can't be as sure there who is a buying customer and who is someone just happy with the inventory they have?

... One idea would be to get whoever makes your vendors, to do this scan when someone makes a purchase... so you can weed out window shoppers from actual buyers... But does this lose the potential data of 'window shoppers that WOULD buy from you if only you supported them right'?

All said... I do think that if they scanned buyers like this... the numbers for Maitreya might be similar to what the website polls show... it's the bodies jockeying for the positions after that that it would be revealing for...

My own preferred body might even drop as a result... of course I HOPE it would rise... my 'gut' tells me it would... but who knows...

[Nalates Urriah]

20 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

All things said though... I am actually rather surprised that the merchants don't seem to have some organize plot going on to determine what brands are best selling... if they all got together and said "I may hate you for selling to people that would otherwise buy X from me... but we BOTH benefit if we sit down together and figure out the demand... so let's see how we can team up on that."

They do.Mesh Addicts does surveys of those using mesh bodies. Some designers run polls too. We find them in various places. But, most telling is their sales data. When making a version of a dress for TMP, track its sales. Did it sell enough to pay for the work? If not, drop that brand and try another.

Blueberry ran a survey on what their people want, Slink, Maitreya, Belleza, or which. BB plans to make versions for the 6 top bodies.

[Pussycat Catnap]

7 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

They do.Mesh Addicts does surveys of those using mesh bodies. Some designers run polls too. We find them in various places. But, most telling is their sales data. When making a version of a dress for TMP, track its sales. Did it sell enough to pay for the work? If not, drop that brand and try another.

Blueberry ran a survey on what their people want, Slink, Maitreya, Belleza, or which. BB plans to make versions for the 6 top bodies.

The problem is they don't sell them split.

I go to 'big brand shop X' and buy 'the new hot dress', and even if I buy just 1 color, I get it in a pack that has it for 3-10 different bodies... the merchant thus has no idea which body I'm actually using... 9 of those bodies could have been wasted effort on their part...

And the polls... those are basically rigged by whichever fan group is currently the loudest.

This is why I talked about ideas on splitting the sale of items earlier... Because it would be one way to find out the actual truth of purchase desire. But as I also noted... it would created outrage. The cat is already out of the bag and they can't put it back in without getting clawed.

The idea of a script to scan what people who make a purchase are currently wearing has some 'legs'... but it would suffer as well from people who have 'shopping gear' versus what they are actually buying to use. I for example often take off everything and wear an untextured classic body when forced to visit a G sim:

(This image was actually from my home, when I was trying to configure something... but it gets the idea...)

Most people don't wear 'less laggy' or 'more conservative' when they shop... but enough of us do to mess up some scanning data...

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by Pussycat Catnap

[Fionalein]

4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Most people don't wear 'less laggy' or 'more conservative' when they shop... but enough of us do to mess up some scanning data...

Shh don't give away that secret I would so love to see them do more dresses for us part time ferals  ^^ But yeah, that's kind of the problem, let's say I buy CompanyB's mesh body which really looks fine , but unfortunately l don't have enough cloth for it, and I want to shop some cloth... I will still wear CompanyA's mesh body because I already have enough outfits saved on it that are PG and low complexity enough to go shopping in, whereas I don't have for the body I would prefer.

11 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Blueberry ran a survey on what their people want, Slink, Maitreya, Belleza, or which. BB plans to make versions for the 6 top bodies.

Yay, never bought anything from her so far, but if she happens to support the body I want, I most likely will in the future. As I already said above, I liked her honest "what body would you like us to produce for in the future?" question. Because if you are in my position and would like to buy a body but so far shied back because of the lack of cloth you can still check that box. So far I didn't buy that body, I bought a feral horse instead which has more 3rd party mesh support ^^

Edited March 24, 2018 by Fionalein

[Chase01]

On 3/23/2018 at 12:29 AM, Pussycat Catnap said:

I hear from some comments that it is a LOT of work to make all the multiple body stuff, and then I go to a store of another brand and see them putting out for a half dozen or more... and I wonder how they pull that off.

There are a lot of factors that go into it. Do they outsource their rigging, do they have multiple people on their team, or is it possibly a collaboration. Event schedules, time available, and the list goes on and on.

 

[Marianne Little]

On ‎24‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 8:55 AM, Pussycat Catnap said:

The problem is they don't sell them split.

I go to 'big brand shop X' and buy 'the new hot dress', and even if I buy just 1 color, I get it in a pack that has it for 3-10 different bodies... the merchant thus has no idea which body I'm actually using... 9 of those bodies could have been wasted effort on their part...

 

You forget that most merchants is not doing this as a full time job. They have a rl job and do this in the evening or weekends. The work in packing 10 dresses and change the vendors to have 10 tabs. Plus list 10 differnt bodies in the MP. Would add a massive xtra work.

Plus the increased customer support and complaints of people being sloppy and buy the wrong body dress.

I own 4 mesh bodies in just this avatar. 3 mesh bodies on one alt. 2 mesh bodies on two alts...etc.

Let us say Belleza does a major update and I start using it instead of Maitreya. As it works now, I have almost as many Belleza clothes as Maitreya. Your idea is actually bad for me, if all designers did this, I had to buy all over again.

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Your idea is actually bad for me, if all designers did this, I had to buy all over again.

Why does everyone, in seemingly continuously failing to read my whole message, keep writing as if believing I am recommending some idea here?

 

[Marianne Little]

18 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Why does everyone, in seemingly continuously failing to read my whole message, keep writing as if believing I am recommending some idea here?

 

Now, relax. I don't think your idea is BAD, it is bad for me. I don't see my way of using SL as the  best way or that every designer should do my way. We use SL in different ways.

I reply to the parts I quote in your post. Your posts is so complex and if I can't reply to a part or a paragraph, I can't reply at all. You say "The problem is" and that is according to the topic "what body sell most". I say that your suggestion is not what I would want to do if I were a merchant. It would also not benefit me as a customer.  Note that "I" and "me" is not = "All".

Edited March 26, 2018 by Marianne Little

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Why does everyone, in seemingly continuously failing to read my whole message, keep writing as if believing I am recommending some idea here?

 

This is exactly what you said:

I don't think there is any script that an detect what attachments someone is wearing. If there was, you could set that up at all the major events and scan people... For good reason this would likely get banned as invasive... So if such a script existed and I knew about it, I'd likely be lobbying to get LLs to block it...

An alternative approach would be to get the top 3 fashion sellers to go 3 months selling products ONLY by the single body...

So you'd walk into shop A and have to choose at purchase which body to buy it for...

- This would cause outrage among the people who use multiple different mesh bodies... but it would get you SOLID data for usage among the 'active shopper' community... and lets face it, that is the only community merchants should care about anyway... people who buy a body once and then run around naked with it for the rest of their SL... don't matter for the merchant community.

However... just imagine being the merchant trying to sell your 'fatpack' for only a single body at a time... Do you keep the price the same because most people will only buy one, then watch your buyers be outraged at getting 'less' for the same price even though most of them only used that less to begin with... or do you divide the price by the number of bodies you support, and watch your profits fall in a move your buyers "think" is fair because they're not seeing the larger picture?

Nowhere in this post do you say that this is a bad idea - one that shouldn't be adopted. You say that it has problems. Almost any sort of plan will have negative consequences when considered fairly, and you're pointing them out. However, you are very clearly saying that it has advantages as well. You only started saying that it wasn't something that should be done after it started getting criticism.

[Pussycat Catnap]

15 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

This is exactly what you said:

 

However... just imagine being the merchant trying to sell your 'fatpack' for only a single body at a time... Do you keep the price the same because most people will only buy one, then watch your buyers be outraged at getting 'less' for the same price even though most of them only used that less to begin with... or do you divide the price by the number of bodies you support, and watch your profits fall in a move your buyers "think" is fair because they're not seeing the larger picture?

Nowhere in this post do you say that this is a bad idea - one that shouldn't be adopted. You say that it has problems. Almost any sort of plan will have negative consequences when considered fairly, and you're pointing them out. However, you are very clearly saying that it has advantages as well. You only started saying that it wasn't something that should be done after it started getting criticism.

Actually you even quoted the part where I say it's a bad idea:

Quote

However... just imagine being the merchant trying to sell your 'fatpack' for only a single body at a time... Do you keep the price the same because most people will only buy one, then watch your buyers be outraged at getting 'less' for the same price even though most of them only used that less to begin with... or do you divide the price by the number of bodies you support, and watch your profits fall in a move your buyers "think" is fair because they're not seeing the larger picture?

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Actually you even quoted the part where I say it's a bad idea:

 

But you also say it would give solid data, which is what the plan was intended to do. Chemotherapy can reduce cancer, but it will make you sick as a dog - sometimes it feels worse than the cancer itself. Is chemotherapy a "good idea" or a "bad idea"?

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Is chemotherapy a "good idea" or a "bad idea"?

In some cancers, chemotherapy won’t help enough to save the patient. I’ve also known cancer patients who died as a direct result of the chemotherapy, not the cancer. Given a choice between a high quality of remaining life without chemo, and adding only 6 months life but having no quality of remaining life - suffering under chemo, many near end of life do not choose chemo.

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In some cancers, chemotherapy won’t help enough to save the patient. I’ve also known cancer patients who died as a direct result of the chemotherapy, not the cancer. Given a choice between a high quality of remaining life without chemo, and adding only 6 months life but having no quality of remaining life - suffering under chemo, many near end of life do not choose chemo.

Yes - I've seen the same thing which is why it came to my mind as an example. But it also helps in some cases, so you can't say that it's a "good idea" or a "bad idea" without knowing the specifics.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Yes - I've seen the same thing which is why it came to my mind as an example. But it also helps in some cases, so you can't say that it's a "good idea" or a "bad idea" without knowing the specifics.

To extend the analogy, only the doctor and the patient can decide that together. We don’t see that enough in business, where decisions are often made by the business without the customer’s considerations taken into account.

[Severity27]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:56 AM, ZaneyApples said:

I am wondering if The mesh project will update their bodies and heads to bento i love the body is really pretty so i am asking do you think be updated to bento fingers move or ect i mean it would be nice because from what i know pretty much all mesh body or most has updated to bento just not this one so yeah what you guys think

Vista makes bento hands that will fit the TMP body and close the gap you get trying to wear other bento hands with the TMP body. If you go this route be sure it's specific because the regular Vista Bento hands will not fit TMP. The TMP body is unique compared to other mesh bodies imo and I would agree it is very pretty. I use Maitreya more lately only because I like to wear gachas and most gachas are Maitreya compatible. That said I have many many outfits also saved with my TMP body. I do things a little different and tend to keep multiple copies of a given body in my inventory with different appliers (/installers) and alpha cuts applied, this way I don't have to mess with the huds as often ...so if the TMP servers went down, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Last I spoke to the TMP csr, she claimed they are working on bento hands and they will be released soon, but she doesn't know when. I don't really believe it which is why Vista is awesome. Oh yeah also Vista is awesome because I love Vista animations.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:09 PM, angeoco said:

TMP have had plenty of time to issue a Bento update, but it hasn't happened. Many people here are of the opinion that TMP have given up any development or support and will probably close soon.

Why would they ever close? A lot of old creators have stopped all involvement in SL but are still selling and probably will until SL implode.