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Will The mesh project bodies and heads

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There is, as MaggiJin mentioned, some vote-skewing going on. One particular store has a BIG, bright sign right next to their male mesh body, which reads something like "Want more clothes for [body name]? VOTE HERE!"

As if the vast majority of male clothing isn't now being made for that body and one other anyway... 9_9

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1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

As if the vast majority of male clothing isn't now being made for that body and one other anyway... 9_9

Hmhmm. 

So why exactly is the male SLink Physique losing support quite so drastically?
I understand that the Aesthetic isn't a store's favourite because of its different setup with two body parts. But Slink?

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6 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Hmhmm. 

So why exactly is the male SLink Physique losing support quite so drastically?
I understand that the Aesthetic isn't a store's favourite because of its different setup with two body parts. But Slink?

Despite its being my personal preference, I can give you several possible reasons:

  • The HUD sorely needs updating with more alpha cuts, specifically across the front torso and clavicle. I've lost count of the number of open-fronted/partially-open jackets and shirts that I can't wear with it because the front torso and clavicle cuts go right across the body
  • The hands and feet have to be purchased separately and don't come as part of the package (although I believe that you can now buy an 'all-in-one' set; at least I saw one for the female bodies at Skin Fair, although the male body wasn't present there)
  • It's not as muscular as Signature or Belleza, and a lot of guys want to look muscular (but not overly-buff, like Aesthetic)

That said, I still prefer Slink for many reasons:

  • The hands don't 'starfish' out like Belleza's do, because they have an inbuilt idle AO
  • While the hands come with a pose presets HUD, they're more natural-looking than the static poses you get with the Signature body. Also, the hand AO looks more natural - softly flexing - than the Signature option of running through all of the poses (including the sillier ones) one after the other
  • I just prefer the overall look and shape of the Slink body. I'm not a fan of gym-bunny-bulgy biceps/triceps/deltoids, and - while the Signature body can be edited somewhat to reduce those muscles - they can't be reduced to non-buff proportions without some serious editing of shoulder width and pectorals. And the Belleza body has a weird 'potbelly' shape at the hips that also requires some shape finagling
  • Belleza's body has terrible neck fit issues with many mesh heads. A neck fix update has been promised for months but hasn't been forthcoming (although, obviously, Bento hand updates on the female bodies take precedence over that)

In all, I'm mildly astonished that the Belleza body - which is still in beta and still has those awful neck fit issues - has overtaken Slink as the second most created-for male body. And when I say 'neck fit issues' I'm talking about things like this:

5ab030f1a1f7e_jakeneckfit.jpg.3e75aa74814ec91fbb62e235d5d8f1be.jpg

That's against a Catwa Bento head, and it's not just down to a poor Windlight. That's a gap you can see daylight through. I never have fitting issues at the neck like that with either Slink or Signature.

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Based on comparative survey results as of June of 2017, it looks like Freya is up by roughly 4%, while Maitreya is down 20% respectively. The data also suggests, that as expected, more users are shifting away from static mesh heads in favor of Bento models. I'd like to think that is is reasonable to assume that Belleza may pick up some more growth when the next update goes live. I know a lot of users are waiting on Bento hands.

Even more interesting is if we look at data from 2016, it shows TMP as the dominant leader for men at 12.9% share. Today that number sits at roughly 3%.

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10 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

So why exactly is the male SLink Physique losing support quite so drastically?

That's the 97 million dollar question. The only reasons I can think of is Slink must have made the devkit too hard to obtain, and not schmoozed the creators as much as the other 2 main bodies for men.

Or every male in SL (apart from me) loves thick bodies, deformed necks, and huge biceps.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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13 hours ago, Vanity Fair said:

Oh wow, Tonic Fine. I wouldn't have predicted that.

Neither would I.

Tonic fine should have the same problem as Belleza Isis and Venus - they all compete DIRECTLY with Maitreya. Belleza Freya holds its ground because it gives you the ability to make looks you simply cannot make at all with Maitreya - not even close resemblances. Freya and Hourglass both do that... but Hourglass is very cartoony, so hasn't managed to compete well with Freya - yet it still holds ground.

I STRONGLY suspect Someone in the Tonic fan community is 'rounding up the fans' and others and getting them to push up the poll. This is not a bad tactic... Maitreya fans used to do that back when Belleza was number one - and they got their numbers to spike enough that designers began to support it more... and were then helped by how slow Belleza is on it's updates...

I demo'd the Altamura body at the fair. I came away feeling I wouldn't even keep it if I was paid to do so. Not only was the HUD even LESS developed than the old Lena Lush/Perky bodies... but the body looked... skeletal thin, and the breasts had an odd shape at a larger size.

- It actually looked a LOT like somebody modeled it by looking at Maitreya on another screen and trying to get their look... but not as refined as such.

It looks like a body that needs to be 'retired' when it's next update comes out and gives a new and improved look... Kind of like Belleza attempted to do with Venus...

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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11 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

So why exactly is the male SLink Physique losing support quite so drastically?

The built in genitals...

They're 'stuck' there... they just turn trans when you hide them...

And they are baby sized...

Somebody needs to run around with a prim and start measuring guy's parts... Blokes are running around SL with goods either under 3" or over 30"... It's either tiny, or absurd...

That 2" dangly thingy looks mighty funny too... on an 'old school' tall avatar... dudes with tiny heads, tiny hands... and if you get slink... tiny genitals...

/fail.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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The Tonic Fine number is really interesting. I guess it could be quite possible that their community was able to rally and have more respondents. Maybe I have been oblivious to it, but I don't remember even seeing an increase in support from the typical vendors at major events, or through many of the vendors I shop at. Perhaps people that own that body shop in a different circle which is bigger then I anticipated, but its always been my understanding that their community has always been starving for content.

 

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I’m glad someone mentioned how whacked those polls are.

I haven’t seen one in a couple years. I didn’t even know there was a new one.

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1 hour ago, Chase01 said:

The Tonic Fine number is really interesting. I guess it could be quite possible that their community was able to rally and have more respondents. Maybe I have been oblivious to it, but I don't remember even seeing an increase in support from the typical vendors at major events, or through many of the vendors I shop at. Perhaps people that own that body shop in a different circle which is bigger then I anticipated, but its always been my understanding that their community has always been starving for content.

 

Unfortunately that survey has become useless. I remember the in the last survey there was a very suspicious-looking high number for Ebody users (this was before they started releasing the "basic" version for L$1, mind you) that has completely disappeared - if anything the Ebody number should now be higher because of people getting the L$1 versions.

To get a reliable number there needs to be a fairly scientific survey, similar to the Tyche Shepherd land survey. Someone could set up survey bots to visit regions, collect avatar keys (so one avatar couldn't try to game things by showing up in multiple places) and then query about those avatars' attachments. There is one good thing about most popular human mesh bodies being no-modify - they'll all have exactly the same name. If you set up lists of names for the bodies and compared the lists of attachments to this list of names you could get comparatively reliable numbers.

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TMP is quite dead, I did buy the male set for a friend so he can get a feeling of what are mesh bodies/heads and because he doesn't log a lot so I wouldn't spend over 10K on full mesh for him if he never shows up.

As for the body poll, since I changed to Belleza I have no regrets, even when I had to buy vista hands (they look way better than SLink hands) to have bento fingers, it still beats Maitreya in looks, I do use Freya which is good if you want a more plump look, but Isis will do great for those who like a thinner shape. Maitreya is nice but I feel like it's quite basic compared to Belleza, as slow as it's development is. I've seen a LOT of girls using Belleza over Maitreya, in world I honestly rarely see Tonic, Altamura, etc. I see more of TMP free bodies than other brands. I've tried demo of all of them, they all looked as basic as Maitreya to me in both features and shapes.

Edited by Sylvannas Zulaman
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Even if there is vote skewing,  some people might have voted because they want the body but dind't buy it yet because of lack of cloth support, which would be as good as already owners if I were a mesh clothing designer.

Maybe that is why a pretty famous cloth designer did "what body would you like us to produce for in the future" in her poll, and no "what body do you use right now" question ;-)

besides that:

Top Reason to get the leader body: there are tons of free cloth available

Top Reason to also design for another body: see above ^^

Edited by Fionalein

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8 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Unfortunately that survey has become useless. I remember the in the last survey there was a very suspicious-looking high number for Ebody users (this was before they started releasing the "basic" version for L$1, mind you) that has completely disappeared - if anything the Ebody number should now be higher because of people getting the L$1 versions.

To get a reliable number there needs to be a fairly scientific survey, similar to the Tyche Shepherd land survey. Someone could set up survey bots to visit regions, collect avatar keys (so one avatar couldn't try to game things by showing up in multiple places) and then query about those avatars' attachments. There is one good thing about most popular human mesh bodies being no-modify - they'll all have exactly the same name. If you set up lists of names for the bodies and compared the lists of attachments to this list of names you could get comparatively reliable numbers.

That would be ideal, but I'd also imagine that those figures could also be inaccurate to a degree as well. While the survey type you suggested would account for the body type worn at the time of conducting the poll; it doesn't take into account for people who own multiple bodies and may be using one over another at any given time. I own multiple mesh bodies (as I am sure others here on the forum do as well), including Maitreya; So if I was wearing it at the time the survey was conducted it might be a little misleading.

The most recent poll has 2,300+ voters. The more realistic approach would be for everyone to spread the word wherever possible.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Chase01 said:

The most recent poll has 2,300+ voters. The more realistic approach would be for everyone to spread the word wherever possible.

I don't think there is any script that an detect what attachments someone is wearing. If there was, you could set that up at all the major events and scan people... For good reason this would likely get banned as invasive... So if such a script existed and I knew about it, I'd likely be lobbying to get LLs to block it...

An alternative approach would be to get the top 3 fashion sellers to go 3 months selling products ONLY by the single body...

So you'd walk into shop A and have to choose at purchase which body to buy it for...

- This would cause outrage among the people who use multiple different mesh bodies... but it would get you SOLID data for usage among the 'active shopper' community... and lets face it, that is the only community merchants should care about anyway... people who buy a body once and then run around naked with it for the rest of their SL... don't matter for the merchant community.

However... just imagine being the merchant trying to sell your 'fatpack' for only a single body at a time... Do you keep the price the same because most people will only buy one, then watch your buyers be outraged at getting 'less' for the same price even though most of them only used that less to begin with... or do you divide the price by the number of bodies you support, and watch your profits fall in a move your buyers "think" is fair because they're not seeing the larger picture?

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I don't think there is any script that an detect what attachments someone is wearing.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAttachedList

and

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails

Have been with us a long time, and are no more invasive than right clicking someone and inspecting them.

This would be the best way to find stats about which bodies are worn most, though. If anyone has an active sim, I'd be happy to put together the script for them.

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18 hours ago, Chase01 said:

The Tonic Fine number is really interesting. I guess it could be quite possible that their community was able to rally and have more respondents. Maybe I have been oblivious to it, but I don't remember even seeing an increase in support from the typical vendors at major events, or through many of the vendors I shop at. Perhaps people that own that body shop in a different circle which is bigger then I anticipated, but its always been my understanding that their community has always been starving for content.

 

I have two friends that have the Tonic Fine body, and both of them have said that over the last 6 months or so, they've seen an increase in the number of places that are including Tonic versions of clothing (and that is not bedroom or street walking type clothing).  A lot of it is from templates, but not all.   So I've started to be more attentive, and even some of the clothing I've purchased recently includes Tonic versions.  If that trend continues, I might even pick up a Tonic Fine body :)

 

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4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

An alternative approach would be to get the top 3 fashion sellers to go 3 months selling products ONLY by the single body...

So you'd walk into shop A and have to choose at purchase which body to buy it for...

- This would cause outrage among the people who use multiple different mesh bodies... but it would get you SOLID data for usage among the 'active shopper' community... and lets face it, that is the only community merchants should care about anyway... people who buy a body once and then run around naked with it for the rest of their SL... don't matter for the merchant community.

That's a terrible idea ...

The Script idea as I pointed out has flaws. The data would only reflect the body in which I was wearing at the time the scan occurred; which may not be the body I use full time. This of course is the purpose behind the survey. People do have multiple bodies, and regardless of their preference; they are sometimes compelled to wear Maitreya due to product availability. Some even wear Maitreya to events since it loads quicker. There are a number of situations in which that data collected could be wrong.

Every poll has anomalies to some extent, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel; we just need more respondents. When the notice of the next survey comes out, we should be encouraging people to fill out the survey so we can continue to grow the sample size.

Edited by Chase01

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As a clothing seller, you could always box up the different body type items in such a way that unboxing it pings back to a server, that'd be another way to get decent data.

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6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

That is basically what I said.

So why suggest an alternative idea that is terrible? lmao

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12 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I don't think there is any script that an detect what attachments someone is wearing.

1

 

11 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:
 

Yup, and working HUDs also like this one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/AV-Inspect-HUD-Tetranodo/13775567

And a few FREEBIE HUDs that scan nearby avies and show profiles with the option to see all attachments, even if object-sitting. My personal favorite is Fashion Spy, but was available only for a limited time so I can't get it for my alts. :(

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I would like to mention the body that i don't own and was asked to vote for was infact tonic, if that sheds some light on things.

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