Mesh body destroys old clothes, right??

[Danni Silvershade]

As someone who was away for nearly 7+ years, i was in shock after discovering the whole mesh body and bento head thing. So much to read and doens't help that words like bento, omega and whatnot are used.

Please someone help me understand:

If I get a mesh body, i can say goodbye to my whole library of clothing that is based on layers, right? Seeing as most of the old clothing had at least 1 layer as a base and then added objects (mesh?), I'd assume so, but maybe there is a workaround?

What are Omega appliers?

I'm not sure how much I get back into Second Life, so I'm doubting that investing a ton of money into a body and then losing most of my clothing library for which i wasted most of my money in the past, won't be worth it, but maybe i understand something wrong.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 minutes ago, Danni Silvershade said:

I'm not sure how much I get back into Second Life,

before you do anything... answer that question.

After that... start looking around, change and buy nothing, except perhaps some minor updates like hair ... (you can use the new mesh hairs on a possible new head later ).

If you'r ready for it, go read and find as much possible about mesh, and start looking around for a body.

Look also if there's a lot of support in clothing and other things you need, like skins appliers.

Than go demo...demo...demo

if you'r stil happy... start buying a basic wardrobe, and body, join hunts, groups for freebies .. and slowly find your way.

[Danni Silvershade]

Thanks for the answer.

Basically the thing i don't understand is this:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Omega-System-Kit-Maitreya/6709966

Is this basically somethign to convert old clothing to the Maitreya body?

I have no clue what Omega and Tango means, but always see it referenced.

 

[Louise Fyrewik]

No, it will not allow you to use your old clothing.

Omega appliers are an application method for layer based clothing/tattoos/skins designed for mesh bodies.
This hud you found will work as a translator for Omega Appliers on the Maitreya Body.

Edited December 6, 2017 by lavalois

[MattNight84]

Omega appliers are clothing, etc that are "painted' on the body.  Like a lot of underwear etc can be omega appliers underneath your regular mesh clothes.   That is my understanding anyway.  Hope that clarifies a little.

[Danni Silvershade]

Ok thanks, my confusion came from most old clothing being "painted on the body" too, but I guess there's now a new version of that.

[Rhonda Huntress]

43 minutes ago, Danni Silvershade said:

If I get a mesh body, i can say goodbye to my whole library of clothing that is based on layers, right?

Correct.

 

Here is my short and simple explanation of mesh bodies:
It's a prim.
Res a plywood cube, attach it to your spine and wear a full body and head alpha layer.   That's your "Hello World" version of a mesh body.

All of those clothing layers won't do anything to your plywood cube.  They all get applied to your system body which is now 100% transparent.  All you see is a box.

You can, of course, put textures on the box.  You could but a face on the front, ears on the side and the picture of a pony tail on the back.
And there you have your first mesh body!

Now, lets get more complex.   But the box on the ground and res a sphere.  Link then together to form a box body and a sphere head.  Wear that.  Yeah, now we're looking good.  We can make a texture that will cover it all and look like a person (sort of) or maybe a robot,  Anyway, doesn't matter.  Just the concept of one texture that gets put over the whole thing to make it look like skin.

If we sell this new complex to other people, they need a way to "paint" clothes over the body.  We don't want them having to go into edit mod and applying textures to faces and scaling, offset, blahblah blah ... HARD WORK just to get the texture put on correctly.  We should script that so they can just touch a button and all the work is done for them. 

That's what appliers are.  They apply textures to mesh body parts.
Omega is a system that endeavors to be universal.  Rather than a clothes designer needing to adjust their textures to fit every kind of body, they can make one standard texture.  The body designers then make a script that will apply the standard texture to their custom body. 

Anyway, there you have it.

 

 

[Talligurl]

I do not know about you, but I find that in actual practice, I almost never wear anything that is over a month old, most clothing items never get worn after a week, the result is that very little of those old system clothes are ever missed. 

[Danni Silvershade]

@Rhonda: Thanks, thats a super easy to understand explanations. But now I also realized that even the skins i bought are most likely worhtless O_O

 

@Talligurl: Well sure, shiny new things are great and all, but having money is too and my thought process is about all the money I already paid for a big library of stuff that is basically worthless if upgrading to the new system. Decisions, decisions.

[Rhonda Huntress]

Just now, Danni Silvershade said:

even the skins i bought are most likely worhtless O_O

Nod.

If you want to keep your system head, most skin makers form back in the day have appliers in their store that will work with the new mesh bodies.  Granted it is another thing you need to buy but they match the old skin, are usually cheaper than a new skin (since it is not the face) and you only need one for each skin designer you use.  For example, LAQ (once called Laqroki and i forget the original name) is still around and still supports even their earliest skins. If you have all the Tasha skins in nugat, you just need the one nugat applier for the mesh body you decide to use.  

 

Oh, and something else you need to know after being gone that long.  Invisiprims are no more.  They no longer work at all.  The function was replaced by adding an alpha clothing layer several years ago but the code that let them work in the first place no longer exists in SL.  So if you have ugly shoes now, that's why.

[Rhonda Huntress]

Oh, before I forget, there is something very important I need to say:

Welcome home, Danni!

Don't worry about bento, mesh and all that too much.  Everything might have changed but it is still exactly the same

 

[Danni Silvershade]

21 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Oh, before I forget, there is something very important I need to say:

Welcome home, Danni!

Don't worry about bento, mesh and all that too much.  Everything might have changed but it is still exactly the same

 

Haha thanks, well, guess I'll start with finding out where to go and where i would hang out, before i decided on the big purchases

[Skell Dagger]

A brief glossary, which is (hopefully) detailed enough to be useful

The old body that you're familiar with is now called the 'classic avatar'. Kinda nice; makes one feel like a vintage car that will be taken out at weekends, lovingly polished, then driven around the countryside to enthusiasts' fairs and whatnot, right? Clothing for the classic avatar will have this icon on the ad board:

If you left SL approximately seven-ish years ago, then you'll be familiar with sculpty clothing. Mesh clothing is sculptys' big sister: all grown up and gorgeous, but she's picky about who she dates.

Mesh clothing comes in various forms, including (but not limited to) -

• that which is fitted for specific mesh bodies, and is labelled with that body's name
• that which is fitted for classic avatars, comes in multiple sizes, and is labelled 'standard sizing'
• that which is labelled as 'fitmesh/fitted mesh' and (ostensibly) works best with classic avatars

Like I said: picky about who she dates

Examples of clothing icons for a few specific female mesh bodies:

And this is the standard sizing logo:

Any mesh that is labelled as 'rigged' will move with your avatar, since it's 'fixed' to specific bones. (Example: a thigh-high rigged mesh boot is a one-piece object that will bend with your knee and ankle when you walk; no more separate foot + calf + thigh sections). Rigged mesh cannot be edited or resized.

Unrigged mesh moves less precisely, since it's attached just like old prims and sculpts were. However, it can be resized and edited (assuming those permissions have been allowed by the creator).

Mesh bodies and mesh heads are attachments that you wear. I can't remember if alpha layers were around when you left SL, but alphas were the replacements for invisiprims (which now no longer work; they're rendered useless when advanced lighting is enabled in the viewer). In order to wear a mesh body and/or head, you put on an alpha layer that renders your entire system body invisible. You then wear the mesh body and/or head over the top of it. This means that any old clothing layer items will no longer work, since they're on your system body, which is now hidden.

Bento is a relatively new addition to SL, which has added multiple new bones to the existing avatar skeleton. It allows for more realistic and detailed finger movements and the ability to use the system sliders when wearing Bento-enabled mesh heads, as well as allowing more realistic quadruped avatars, wings, tails, etc. You will need Bento-enabled hands in order to see the new movement abilities. Here's a quick example video that I made after getting my first pair of Bento hands. And with mesh hands, in general, you also get gorgeous nail appliers. (I may or may not be addicted to those, even as a guy... *koff*)

You will see Bento listed on a lot of things. Bento AOs include extra finger movements, and Bento mesh heads have motion-capture facial animations. Bento shapes are designed to work with specific Bento mesh heads (since, for most Bento mesh heads, you can't just put them on over your old shape and have them look 'like you'). Most mesh bodies are now Bento-enabled, but a couple (such as the female ones by Belleza) are still in the process of being updated to include Bento hands.

Onto appliers now. These are, indeed, like the old clothing layers for the system/classic body. They are, effectively 'painted onto' the mesh body. Most mesh bodies have what has been dubbed 'onion skin' layers, such as tattoo, underwear, and clothing. Just like the original avatar's clothing layers, these will go under (or over) each other, as you would expect. Appliers are much crisper than the old system layers; tattoos look fresh and well-delineated instead of smearing as they sometimes did on the system body.

Appliers can be body-specific (eg: you might find a skin or makeup or skintight pants created just for a Lelutka head, the Maitreya body or the Belleza body) or they might be Omega appliers. Omega is a cross-brand applier which allows you to wear anything labelled 'Omega' on any mesh body or head, as long as you have the corresponding Omega relay for it.

• Example: If you're wearing a Maitreya mesh body and a Catwa mesh head, you need the Omega relays for Maitreya and Catwa. You can then buy any Omega skin, clothing appliers, makeup, brows, eyes (yes, you'll need appliers for eyes if you have a mesh head) and - as long as you're wearing the relevant Omega relay, the items will apply to the relevant body part. Someone else who might be wearing a Belleza mesh body and a Lelutka mesh head would buy the Omega relays for Belleza and Lelutka, and they can apply the same things that you bought to their own body and head.

Some Omega relays only need to be worn once, clicked to install the Omega system into the relevant body or head, then removed. Others need to be worn each time you want to change whatever you're wearing (eg: putting new Omega makeup on). That latter type act like translators, sending (relaying!) the textures to the relevant body part. And some mesh bodies and heads have built-in Omega compatibility, so you don't even need to buy the relays.

You mention Tango in a later post here. Being a bloke I'm less familiar with ladies' body bits, but that refers to a now mostly-obsolete mesh breast add-on. Most women that I see who opt for mesh tend to go for a full mesh body.

Lastly, a couple of examples [ 1 & 2 ] of what Bento mesh heads are now capable of

Edited December 6, 2017 by Skell Dagger

[Bree Giffen]

You can only move old system clothes to a mesh body with the Omega applier if you own the textures for those system clothes. If you do, you can create an applier and apply the system clothes to a mesh body and use your prim attachments to complete the outfit. 

BUT, mesh clothes or rather fitted mesh clothes designed specifically for a mesh body fit very well on the mesh body and look really good compared to system clothes. There used to be a dearth of fitted mesh clothes but nowadays there is an abundance of clothing choices.

[Syo Emerald]

If you don't want to use mesh body parts, you don't have to. You could still use what you already got and hope to find clothes that date back to 2013 and earlier or who offer options for standart avatars bodies. Just don't become one of those people, that get all passiv-agressiv towards those who want to use a mesh body and head, just because times have changed and they don't like it.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

3 hours ago, Danni Silvershade said:

I have no clue what Omega and Tango means, but always see it referenced.

Before the mesh bodies on offer now, mesh butts and boobs were all the rage. Some people couldn't slive without them and some of us thought nipples which could poke an eye out were a bit much. Tangos were one brand of mesh accountrements.

Probably best to stay away from them. Besides being lethal, there were a raft of difficulties in making them work with clothing and, given how little they're talked about any more, there's probably little support for them.

The jargon of all of this is an utter minefield. I can't imagine how confusing this must be for someone new or returning.

Alwin's suggestions of new hair and going slow are good. Mesh bodies are the must-have fashion accessory of the moment, but there's no need to rush into it. Do what makes you happy and at your own speed.

Welcome back.

 

[Danni Silvershade]

42 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

If you don't want to use mesh body parts, you don't have to. You could still use what you already got and hope to find clothes that date back to 2013 and earlier or who offer options for standart avatars bodies. Just don't become one of those people, that get all passiv-agressiv towards those who want to use a mesh body and head, just because times have changed and they don't like it.

No worries. Live and let live or slive, I guess.

At most I'd be bitter about the new times not thinking abot the past times with lack of compatibility, but what's done is done. I mean if it was designed so you could use the new bodies with the old stuff, that would be wonderful, but since that did not happen, I'd just have to adapt.

It's christmas and I have low self constraint, so I'm most likely going to go on a shopping spree.

On that note, I got the normie head, since i feel that price is decent and having omega support I already found some not too expensive make up too.

Now to tackle the bodies and in that case I think I have to put my mind to quality over quantity and just pick and choose a few outfits instead of having 50 to not make my credit card burn up.

 

Oh and don't touch my hair! (I have a lot of hairstyles and am happy that they still fit the new head)

 

And thanks a lot to Skell Dagger for that huge explanation. That sure clears up a lot more things. The only reason why i stumbled upon "Tango" is because it often got mentioned as compatibility when Omega was also mentioned. In my brain I thought it was different versions of SL updates (like bento...god why can't Linden just call it Better Head Update ^^)

Edited December 6, 2017 by Danni Silvershade

[Josephine Carissa]

*Waving* Hi Danni : )

As Syo said not everyone has changed over to mesh, ( i only have the mesh feet so far). Anyway, i thought you might want more information::

http://meshbodyaddicts.com/

(lots of folks have mentioned that this is a good resource for information)

https://strawberrysingh.com/

(this lady does awesome product reviews)

https://fabfree.wordpress.com/

(great information on free and reasonable items)

Good Luck & Welcome Back

Kind Regards,

Josephine

[Rhonda Huntress]

14 minutes ago, Danni Silvershade said:

Oh and don't touch my hair! (I have a lot of hairstyles and am happy that they still fit the new head)

Welllll .....

/me laughs.

Actually that is a fight for another day and has been a long running can of worms.  I'll give a run down of the sides.

Older flexi hair moves in the breeze and sways as you walk.  It has many prims and a high rendering cost because of flex and alpha channels in each texture.  Long hair clips badly when you turn you head.

New mesh hair has a much lower rendering costs and few if any alpha channel textures.  It can be rigged to move with you, so long hair stays draped over your shoulder as your head moves.  It is also static.  It doesn't blow in the wind or bounce as you walk. 

There are some flexi/mesh hybrids out there but it never really caught on.  More often it is a blend of the worst qualities of both rather than the best qualities.

Recently, there has been a few people making bento mesh hair.   Bento added new bones to the avatar that can then be manipulated with animations.  Just like waving an arm has always been done, but now with tails, wings and hind legs.  Bento hair can rig locks of hair to move with you left rear leg.  Not having a left rear leg means your avatar doesn't look any different.  But that non-rendered bone can play an animation that slowly drifts back and forth a small amount; and the hair portions rigged to it move as well.

Anyway, that last bit is new as in just a few months old at best.  I'm not trying to talk you in to replacing any hair you have at all, though.  I am just trying to tempt you with some new options

 

[Danni Silvershade]

44 minutes ago, Josephine Carissa said:

*Waving* Hi Danni : )

As Syo said not everyone has changed over to mesh, ( i only have the mesh feet so far). Anyway, i thought you might want more information::

http://meshbodyaddicts.com/

(lots of folks have mentioned that this is a good resource for information)

https://strawberrysingh.com/

(this lady does awesome product reviews)

https://fabfree.wordpress.com/

(great information on free and reasonable items)

Good Luck & Welcome Back

Kind Regards,

Josephine

I dabbled in meshbodyaddicts before I wrote my cry for help here. Some lesser known bodies there that would be interesting, but I think just for compatibilities sake I stick to Matriyea (spelling?), since on the list on that page it has the most checkmarks with compatible things.

 

While waiting for the Linden Money server to be back up so I can get the body, I attached a photo of how the normiehead with extra bought make up turned out. I'm okay with that and also it shows the current hair I use, which still looks fine imo.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Danni Silvershade

[Rhonda Huntress]

Oh, nice.

I do not have it but I watched my partner play with that head on her alt.  It responds well to a wide range of slider adjustments.  I like what you have here so far.

[Danni Silvershade]

Now I'm basically staring at the maintenance status in hopes the billing server goes back up ^^

[Anna Nova]

I have the Normie head for my alt.  Can't praise it enough for the price.  But I love my Lelutka too much......

[Coby Foden]

1 hour ago, Danni Silvershade said:

While waiting for the Linden Money server to be back up so I can get the body, I attached a photo of how the normiehead with extra bought make up turned out. I'm okay with that and also it shows the current hair I use, which still looks fine imo.

The default avatar system head still works pretty well and can look really nice with good skin. There's no hurry to rush into bento mesh head at once.
The body is a different matter though. Mesh body is almost a must (especially for ladies) as it has smooth curves, nice hands and feet.

[Rhonda Huntress]

58 minutes ago, Danni Silvershade said:

Now I'm basically staring at the maintenance status in hopes the billing server goes back up ^^

If it ever comes up, I'll send you a couple of pieces you might like.

 

11 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

Mesh body is almost a must (especially for ladies) as it has smooth curves, nice hands and feet.

Very true. Hands and feet if nothing else.  I don't know if anyone makes shoes for classic avatars any more.