Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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<snip>

A few years ago, I accidentally discovered that taking my neighbor for a ride on my tandem bicycle qualifies as an "other thing". She asked me to pull over and stop because she felt "weird". As she fanned herself, I realized that "weird" was a euphamism. She never rode with me again.

I continue to enjoy riding.

A lot.

;-).

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Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling. 

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[Coby Foden]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling. 

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Can you elaborate a bit?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Leia36]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling. 

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Can you elaborate a bit?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

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*grins and waits

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling. 

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Can you elaborate a bit?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

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After a long ride things tend to get a tad... numb.

[LordHappycat]

"Linden Lab is working on a next generation virtual world that will be in the spirit of Second Life, an open world where users have incredible power to create anything they can imagine and content creators are king. This is a significant focus for Linden Lab, and we are actively hiring to help with this ambitious effort. We believe that there is a massive opportunity ahead to carry on the spirit of Second Life while leveraging the significant technological advancements that have occurred since its creation, as well as our unparalleled experience as the provider of the most successful user-created virtual world ever."

So, forget about improving the current form of Second Life with credible and drastic changes. Let's build a new world like it! With the intended purposes that the original Second Life was supposed to have!

"The next generation virtual world will go far beyond what is possible with Second Life, and we don’t want to constrain our development by setting backward compatibility with Second Life as an absolute requirement from the start. That doesn’t mean you necessarily won’t be able to bring parts of your Second Life over, just that our priority in building the next generation platform is to create an incredible experience and enable stunningly high-quality creativity, rather than ensuring that everything could work seamlessly with everything created over Second Life’s 11 year history."

So, we must insure that you pour more money into buying things that are compatible in this new world. Forget what you've bought in the original Second Life. Even if that's not the case, we'll somehow break something to even that.

"Does this mean we’re giving up on Second Life? Absolutely not. It is thanks to the Second Life community that our virtual world today is without question the best there is, and after 11 years we certainly have no intention of abandoning our users nor the virtual world they continually fill with their astounding creativity. Second Life has many years ahead of it, and in addition to improvements and new developments specifically for Second Life, we think that much of the work we do for the next generation project will also be beneficial for Second Life."

That we could've done in over the years but we had other things in mind. But we're assuring you we won't forget about you. Until the new virtual world is complete.

"

It’s still very early days for this new project, and as we forge ahead in creating the next generation virtual world, we’ll share as much as we can.

If we had one message to share with Second Life users about this new project at this point, it would be: don’t panic, get excited! Again, Second Life isn’t going away, nor are we ceasing our work to improve it. But, we’re also working on something that we think will truly fulfill the promise of virtual worlds that few people understand as well as Second Life users."

I actually don't feel excited, to be honest. I mean, why hasn't there been a good amount of development periodically as Second Life progresses in it's years? All I get from this is really that "we've failed to bring to you what could have been for 11 years. so we're finally doing something about it when we could have shown this while the current world is intact."

Your community is slowly becoming a vessel of millions of dead accounts with approximately 50,000 - 100,000 being active for such a virtual world so vast. If you guys are sincere in your ambition, you would have done everything in your powers for the current world to make it better. Not try and make a new one, just yet.

[Coby Foden]

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LordHappycat wrote:

 

Not try and make a new one, just yet.

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If not now, in your opinion, when would the right time be?

After five years, or ten years, or twenty years?

When?

[Madelaine McMasters]

LL can't take SL to where they want to go because the foundation is shaky. To build a competitive new virtual world, they have to start from scratch. Your request reminds me of the quote that Henry Ford never uttered.

"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said "a faster horse"."

Your suggestion that they delay development of a new virtual world would surely please LL's competitors. The moment something better than SL arrives, many of us will flock to it. Why would you want LL to forfeit the game?

[Parhelion Palou]

First, this is a resident forum. We're not Linden Lab employees and you're not likely to reach them via a forum post.

SL has been updated drastically over the years. Ever compare in-world pictures from 2004 and now?

A software design, like any design, is based on the requirements and assumptions made at the time it's designed. If the requirements change enough, the design won't be able to handle them. SL is past that point. LL can make some changes (as they have been), but there's a limit. Drastic changes to the software would break everything. People would leave and SL would die.

SL will die anyway -- sooner or later someone will come up with something good enough for people to abandon what they have in SL. LL is creating a new product hoping to be the 'something better'. LL can't afford to wait much longer -- it'll take years for them to get the new product out the door. Once it's released, LL will keep SL around (as long as it's profitable).

BTW, We don't know LL's next generation virtual world will be like SL at all, other than there will be user-created content, we can keep our avatar names, and the same currency will be used.

 

[LordHappycat]

What competition is there? IMVU? lol

They're partially responsible for making that foundation shaky. So it is their responsibility to fix it, not abandon it. I will not simply try and accept SL as something that was hyped up to be everything it's barely even a quarter of. All for the expense of waiting 11 years to suddenly now decide to do something new? No, that's just blantly unacceptable.

They're already delaying development as it is within themselves to make the current product better. Don't put this blame on the community that serves as some of the blood for those developers to give ideas and suggestions to that they haven't thought of.

There have been instances over time where some of the same products still withstand the test of time and age well. I'm not saying this applies to everything. But I think it's a matter LL continually overshoots and underestimates year in and year out.

[Gavin Hird]

It is perfectly possible to both scale and improve the current platform if you take a different approach. It will take a bit of developement, but so will a new from-scratch version. 

For anyone interested I have outlined how at the very beginning of this thread. 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

Oops, sorry Celestiall I hadn't seen your link to the same study. Keeping up with a thread at terminal velocity ain't so easy.

Wasn't trying to steal any thunder.

I've enjoyed your posts to this thread a lot!

Can second your anecdotal experiences, as much as that helps.

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Yay!  *smiles* 

[Coby Foden]

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LordHappycat wrote:

So it is their responsibility to fix it, not abandon it.

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Really?

But you have accepted and agreed to this:

http://lindenlab.com/tos

"1.2 The Service exists only as long as and in the form that we may provide the Service, and all aspects of the Service, including your User Content, are subject to change or elimination."

 

"Linden Lab has the right to change, limit access to, and/or eliminate any aspect(s), feature(s) or functionality of the Service (including your User Content) as it sees fit at any time without notice, and Linden Lab makes no commitment, express or implied, to maintain or continue, or to permit open access to, any aspect of the Service. You acknowledge that your use of the Service is subject to this risk and that you knowingly assume it and make your decisions to participate in the Service, contribute Content and spend your money accordingly."

 

 

See, it has never been promised nor guaranteed that the service will continue forever.

[Phil Deakins]

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LordHappycat wrote:

What competition is there? IMVU? lol

 

They're partially responsible for making that foundation shaky. So it is their responsibility to fix it, not abandon it. I will not simply try and accept SL as something that was hyped up to be everything it's barely even a quarter of. All for the expense of waiting 11 years to suddenly now decide to do something new?

No, that's just blantly unacceptable.

 

They're already delaying development as it is within themselves to make the current product better. Don't put this blame on the community that serves as some of the blood for those developers to give ideas and suggestions to that they haven't thought of.

 

There have been instances over time where some of the same products still withstand the test of time and age well. I'm not saying this applies to everything. But I think it's a matter LL continually overshoots and underestimates year in and year out.

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LMAO. So you're going to stop it, are you?

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LordHappycat wrote:

What competition is there? IMVU? lol

 

They're partially responsible for making that foundation shaky. So it is their responsibility to fix it, not abandon it. I will not simply try and accept SL as something that was hyped up to be everything it's barely even a quarter of. All for the expense of waiting 11 years to suddenly now decide to do something new? No, that's just blantly unacceptable.

 

They're already delaying development as it is within themselves to make the current product better. Don't put this blame on the community that serves as some of the blood for those developers to give ideas and suggestions to that they haven't thought of.

 

There have been instances over time where some of the same products still withstand the test of time and age well. I'm not saying this applies to everything. But I think it's a matter LL continually overshoots and underestimates year in and year out.

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We're talking about future competition, just as we're talking about a future VW from LL. Somebody is going to lure us away from SL, and that may be somebody we've never heard of. You are also thinking too narrowly. Facebook and good weather are also current and future competition for SL. Competing virtual worlds are likely to be built on more modern foundations, allowing more rapid improvement until they too run out of gas and must be rethought.

Linden Lab has no responsibility to fix the shaky foundation. It's naive to think they do, particularly as they told you they don't in the TOS (Thanks, Coby!) and you clicked "Accept". If that's blatantly unacceptable, then are you blatantly self contradictory? Perhaps you blatantly ignored the TOS when accepting it? I did (and I bet we're not the only ones) and so I don't complain about it.

You've shown me no evidence you understand software engineering, so I think your claim that LL can make the current system enough better to remain competitive is an uninformed opinion. Mine may be slightly better informed. There have been many discussions here about SL architectural deficiencies, from databases to graphics architectures to systems integration. Some of the technologies on which SL is based are no longer being actively improved by their originators and some have been surpassed by superior alternatives that cannot simply be swapped in.

And none of us know what will be required to remain competitive next year, as next year's competition is not yet known to us. The concurrency charts suggest that SL has not been competitive for five years, even though they've been working on it. I think that's why Ebbe and the Lindens are willing to try something new.

As for the longevity of technical products, Microsoft abandoned DOS, Win3.x, Win95, Win2000, and recently WinXP, which is about the age of SL. Apple abandoned 68K applications a decade ago and PowerPC applications a few years ago. They'll probably abandon the iPhone 4 this year. Analog TV and cell phones are gone, as is most magnetic tape and Intel Indeo (DVI) encoded video. HD-DVD lasted only a few years and Blu-Ray may not last 20. There's a long history of technology products being set out to pasture. Is all that blatantly unacceptable?

I agree that LL has overpromised and underdelivered in the past. They may do so again in the future. That's also not unusual in the tech industry. Where's the flying car my Dad was promised?

Your insinuation that I'm putting blame on the community has no basis in fact. I've blamed no one for anything.

If change angers you, be aware that anger clouds thinking, placing you at a disadvantage in a rational discussion.

Also be aware that I'm nefarious.

;-).

[LordHappycat]

"We're talking about future competition, just as we're talking about a future VW from LL. Somebody is going to lure us away from SL, and that may be somebody we've never heard of. You are also thinking too narrowly. Facebook and good weather are also current and future competition for SL. Competing virtual worlds are likely to be built on more modern foundations, allowing more rapid improvement until they too run out of gas and must be rethought."

Anything that'll knock LL on it's feet and be a reasonable, understanding and better competitor. I'm all for it. Facebook's competition was mainly MySpace for the most part. You're kinda overstretching their future there. Facebook didn't need a virtual world to compete with SL.

"Linden Lab has no responsibility to fix the shaky foundation. It's naive to think they do, particularly as they told you they don't in the TOS (Thanks, Coby!) and you clicked "Accept". If that's blatantly unacceptable, then are you blatantly self contradictory? Perhaps you blatantly ignored the TOS when accepting it? I did (and I bet we're not the only ones) and so I don't complain about it."

Then is it my fault and everyone else's that the community is dead? Is it our fault the prices are so high to make a virtual living on there? I don't read a lot of TOS simply because they're tediously long and un-necessarily small in text for the most part. It's like as if they're more for the creators to read it and not us. Plus, there was no "Accept" button before me when joining SL on multiple occasions. Soooo, I don't know where you're pulling that out from other than your ass.

"You've shown me no evidence you understand software engineering, so I think your claim that LL can make the current system enough better to remain competitive is an uninformed opinion. Mine may be slightly better informed. There have been many discussions here about SL architectural deficiencies, from databases to graphics architectures to systems integration. Some of the technologies on which SL is based are no longer being actively improved by their originators and some have been surpassed by superior alternatives that cannot simply be swapped in."

Because it is not MY responsibility to maintain development. Could I have gotten into programming classes and learned the ways of programming code to become a credible and qualified software engineer? Yes, I could've. But I didn't. I am simply a user and as a user I exercise my opinion and flex my point of view as I see fit. LL does have some software engineers in their employment do they not? If not, then how else could have SL been built?

Basically if you knew anything about architecture, it is possible to simply swap things in. If it is by any means to support better than the old part with a new one. With computers, all you need to do is upgrade/update the old and slide in the new. It's easier than you're making it out to be and yes it takes qualified software engineers to see that. You're making it sound like it hasn't been done before.

"And none of us know what will be required to remain competitive next year, as next year's competition is not yet known to us. The concurrency charts suggest that SL has not been competitive for five years, even though they've been working on it. I think that's why Ebbe and the Lindens are willing to try something new."

Then that defeats your own first paragraph. I have nothing to say here.

"As for the longevity of technical products, Microsoft abandoned DOS, Win3.x, Win95, Win2000, and recently WinXP, which is about the age of SL. Apple abandoned 68K applications a decade ago and PowerPC applications a few years ago. They'll probably abandon the iPhone 4 this year. Analog TV and cell phones are gone, as is most magnetic tape and Intel Indeo (DVI) encoded video. HD-DVD lasted only a few years and Blu-Ray may not last 20. There's a long history of technology products being set out to pasture. Is all that blatantly unacceptable?"

But who is to say they aren't being used at all? Lol, you're having the audacity to say cell phones are gone? Then what are smartphones then? What does part of that word "phone" mean to you? They're still technically cellphones to the core along with other things it can do. Also, every Windows OS from Win 98 on up had editions and service packs that helped refine their software in some aspects. So, why hasn't something like SL taken this route? To refine and polish their current product before eventually moving on to something else?

"I agree that LL has overpromised and underdelivered in the past. They may do so again in the future. That's also not unusual in the tech industry. Where's the flying car my Dad was promised?

Your insinuation that I'm putting blame on the community has no basis in fact. I've blamed no one for anything.

If change angers you, be aware that anger clouds thinking, placing you at a disadvantage in a rational discussion.

Also be aware that I'm nefarious."

Which is how I feel LL is going to do with this new virtual world. They're going to do all of these nifty things that are easier to say than done. Humans aren't ready for flying cars, I mean if they're doing ridiculous things to ground cars. What suggests we're ready for flying ones?

Oh I'm quite capable of adapting to change, don't you worry on such matters. Just that all of this is really coming off as a way of LL saying they've given up and want to do something new. With not even a slightest hint of showcasing or demonstrating these promises which could just again be nothing but false hopes.

[Phil Deakins]

@LordSadCat. Face it, my friend. You want what LL cannot deliver, and you'd be happy if another company delivered it. So how about living up to your words that it's unacceptable and find something else? If it's unacceptable to you, don't accept it. See how smple it all is?

[Parhelion Palou]

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LordHappycat wrote:

<snip>

Basically if you knew anything about

architecture

, it is

possible to simply swap things in.

If it is by any means to support better than the old part with a new one. With computers, all you need to do is upgrade/update the old and slide in the new. It's easier than you're making it out to be and yes it takes qualified software engineers to see that. You're making it sound like it hasn't been done before.

<snip>

 

 

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I'm a qualified software engineer (somewhere around 30 years in the field), and I've already told you that when conditions change enough it's far worse to try to modify an outdated design than to start fresh. SL as it's used now is not what LL designed it to be. The fix is to do a new design for the current (and predicted) requirements.

As for architecture, I'm glad to know that I can merely swap out parts to turn the Empire State building into the Taj Mahal.

 

[Coby Foden]

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LordHappycat wrote:

 

I don't read a lot of TOS simply because they're tediously long and un-necessarily small in text for the most part. It's like as if they're more for the creators to read it and not us. Plus, there was no "Accept" button before me when joining SL on multiple occasions.

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The TOS isn't in small letters. The TOS is for everybody who is using Second Life. You definitely have agreed to the TOS. If you hadn't clicked the "I agree" button then you wouldn't be able to post here nor log in to Second Life; that's a fact. What you say above is not true.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling. 

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Can you elaborate a bit?  :matte-motes-big-grin:

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I'd rather not have my posting privileges in the Forum suspended. 

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

As for the longevity of technical products, Microsoft abandoned DOS, Win3.x, Win95, Win2000, and recently WinXP, which is about the age of SL. Apple abandoned 68K applications a decade ago and PowerPC applications a few years ago. They'll probably abandon the iPhone 4 this year. Analog TV and cell phones are gone, as is most magnetic tape

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I am still using computers with Windows 98 and XP because of certain hardware and software. I also have a working C64 but more for nostalgic reasons. In my town analog cable TV is still avaliable.

Non-smart cell phones have a lot of advantages - no OS by Google or Apple for instance, and people don't waste that much time with these that can be spend on more important activities. Like, how do those silly smartphone addicts think they will ever achieve something namable in MMOGs and virtual worlds? ;-)

I am still using audio cassette tape to record analog radio broadcasts, using a nifty recorder that allows time-controlled recordings.

 

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Where's the flying car my Dad was promised?

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It is older than you might think - this thing was flying in the 1950s, but despite having some advantages over helicopters, the project was abandoned due to fuel consumption - a well scripted build of it in SL would be nice: Piasecki Airgeep (model kit artwork)

Teleporting and avatar flying should be the exception and not the rule in future virtual worlds, better go for good physics. Using cool vehicles is so much more fun! Imagine rezzing areas and object entry rights in abundance - and don't forget the parking lots this time! ;-)

[LordHappycat]

I think the problem with you idiots is that you take things out of context. This is why I rarely waste my time with such senseless stupidity. Especially in Second Life forums so it seems. You make this sound so impossible when it is possible and relating it to things where the obvious solution would have to be utilized. What would any of you know what to do in this situation? Just, laughingly stupid people on here I just can't get over.

"@LordSadCat. Face it, my friend. You want what LL cannot deliver, and you'd be happy if another company delivered it. So how about living up to your words that it's unacceptable and find something else? If it's unacceptable to you, don't accept it. See how smple it all is? **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />"

Awwww, aren't you cute and "smart" editing my name like as if nobody has thought of it. Well, yeah? And I have my own reasons, so what point are you trying to get across instead of making a stupid ass of yourself? :3

[LordHappycat]

"As for architecture, I'm glad to know that I can merely swap out parts to turn the Empire State building into the Taj Mahal."

Then shut up and do it. Because that wasn't my point, idiot. Maybe while you're doing it, you'll have the crushing weight of a whole structure destroy your idiocy once and for all. :3

[Parhelion Palou]

I didn't call you LordSadCat. I don't think 'Happy' fits either ... you should consider a name change.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LordHappycat wrote:

"As for architecture, I'm glad to know that I can merely swap out parts to turn the Empire State building into the Taj Mahal."

 

Then shut up and do it. Because that wasn't my point, idiot. Maybe while you're doing it, you'll have the crushing weight of a whole structure destroy your idiocy once and for all. :3

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Recall that I said your anger would work against you, compromising your ability to reason. It has done precisely that, and in grand fashion. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone in the forums (or anywhere else, I suspect) that considers Parhelion an idiot, though there is a least one person who thinks I am an idiot, and might enjoy your company.

I don't think I've ever met an idiot. I imagine they're rare. I've met people who are angry, sometimes as a result of encountering me. I've met people who are careless, often as a result of being angry. And that gives me the power to make people careless. It's not a super power, but it's useful.

Your response to Par violates the SL Terms Of Service you claim not to have accepted. I won't AR your response, though you might hope someone else does.

Rawr!

[LordHappycat]

Assumptions only get you so far.

People are so conclusive as to assume what people's emotions are. I'd have to say, you're far off from thinking I'm even remotely angry. If anything, I'm mostly astounded that the community in these forums just take things out of context and still run with them.

I have nothing to prove and show. I'm not responsible for your persception. If you wish to believe that I'm angry and if it helps make you sleep better at night. So be it. Because that's what everyone just generalizes when someone comes up with rational thought and is in the minority against the blunt majority.

So I recall nothing and with that I'm pretty much done here. I've only acted that reflected one's obliviousness. So, enjoy that to think about. :3