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Jo Yardley

Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

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Just in case you missed it;

Earlier today Ebbe Altberg (CEO of Linden Lab) let slip that they are working on a new virtual world.

Here is the statement I received;

Linden Lab is working on a next generation virtual world that will be in the spirit of Second Life, an open world where users have incredible power to create anything they can imagine and content creators are king. This is a significant focus for Linden Lab, and we are actively hiring to help with this ambitious effort. We believe that there is a massive opportunity ahead to carry on the spirit of Second Life while leveraging the significant technological advancements that have occurred since its creation, as well as our unparalleled experience as the provider of the most successful user-created virtual world ever.

The next generation virtual world will go far beyond what is possible with Second Life, and we don’t want to constrain our development by setting backward compatibility with Second Life as an absolute requirement from the start. That doesn’t mean you necessarily won’t be able to bring parts of your Second Life over, just that our priority in building the next generation platform is to create an incredible experience and enable stunningly high-quality creativity, rather than ensuring that everything could work seamlessly with everything created over Second Life’s 11 year history.

Does this mean we’re giving up on Second Life? Absolutely not. It is thanks to the Second Life community that our virtual world today is without question the best there is, and after 11 years we certainly have no intention of abandoning our users nor the virtual world they continually fill with their astounding creativity. Second Life has many years ahead of it, and in addition to improvements and new developments specifically for Second Life, we think that much of the work we do for the next generation project will also be beneficial for Second Life.

It’s still very early days for this new project, and as we forge ahead in creating the next generation virtual world, we’ll share as much as we can.

If we had one message to share with Second Life users about this new project at this point, it would be: don’t panic, get excited! Again, Second Life isn’t going away, nor are we ceasing our work to improve it. But, we’re also working on something that we think will truly fulfill the promise of virtual worlds that few people understand as well as Second Life users.

 

Ebbe has been answering questions and you can read more here on my blog;

http://joyardley.wordpress.com/

 

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I don't know whether to be scared or excited. Sounds to me that Ebbe and the team know very little about how they are going to do things, other than "It will be better". This does not give me comfort. You say you have no idea how you are going to do the avatar? Now, I'm really scared, cause that isn't something you think up as you go. It really should be the core focus of your new virtual world. What is the point of even starting this world until you know how this will work? Does LL even know what is possible? I seriously doubt it. Without massive involvement from the creative community, this has no chance of actually being better.

One thing that keep running thru my head is that all these other people tried to make a competing virtual world and they all failed. What makes LL think they can actually do it? SL was a fluke, and only happened because of some very specific reasons. Cloud Party tried to mimic SL, and despite giving creators professional tools, it still was iffy that they would survive, which is likely why they sold out. Sorry, but I'm not positive that LL even knows the special sauce that makes this all work.

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I want to respond to Ebbe's comment about the new business model and taxing products more.

 

You don't need to tax us at all. Think about it Ebbe. A tax on producers economically is saying you want them to create less. You never want to inhibit creation. You are this worlds government and hold a monopoly on many things. Use that monopoly to generate more income. As creators, and merchants, we want to advertise. We are begging to spend money on advertising. What does LL give us? CRAP!!!!! And then way over priced CRAP! Those enhancements for the Marketplace made LL a ton of money, but they SUCK, and are not well done. LL could get alot more out of them, and they should cut the price in half, when it works better. LL also opened up banner spaces on it's website, but it's at ridiculous prices. WTF was LL thinking? Did they not run some numbers? Yeah, it seems they gauge it on other popular websites. The logic escapes me. Again, my point is that LL has a monopoly on advertising and other aspect of SL. Don't tax us more. That is just lazy thinking. Be creative. Make something for us that we'll beg to pay for.

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Ok, here I want to comment on Ebbe's comment of "Empower creators....", which was a response to a question about whether LL will create a Default Avatar, or we can import our own.

 

Ebbe, this is kind of a bad answer, as to me, it sounds like you don't understand why SL is what it is. This is not really my opinion as I can prove that the same thing set off a whole other 3d industry. The new mesh avatars are another clue that LL doesn't quite grasp things. LL giving us the SL default avatar was the core reason SL got so popular so fast. Because there are so many creators, that avatar has, literally, millions and millions of options. Thousands of creators make items for it every day. Having that standard avatar gives creators something to build onto. Both Poser and Daz3D are popular platforms because of their standard avatars that can be morphed into any character possible simply by changing it's shape. By simple morphing the characters shape, a creator can retain the other features, like facial expression, without having to remake them theirself. The default also gives clothing a starting point from where to morph from. In Daz3D, I can buy and sell morphs for the Genesis character. Imagine if we could buy morphs sliders to change the look of our whole avatar. The way to do the NEW default, is almost exactly how Daz3D created their Genesis character, with enough polygons in all the right areas to morph it into any character. You might even want to strike a deal with Daz3D to use their Genesis, or Genesis 2 figure, although it is a bit much for a game engine.

Yes, of course, some of us will want to upload our own skeletons and all. That is a given. Plus, to do really crazy monsters, we need a custom skeleton system. My point is not to say we shouldn't do custom skeletons, but that we need a standard avatar so that we have something to start from.

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kia ora Ebbe (:

am pleased to hear about the new world

but if this turns out to be a spin ala Apple Microsoft style to keep us hanging in with you and prevent drift to other worlds like HiFi, Garys Mod, Unity, etc then is lots of people not going to be happy

if new world has been in dev since 2012 then we need something to play in/with. even if pre-pre-alpha. thats we not you and just your guys. We need to play as well

I think you got until end of year at most. If we cant get into this new world before xmas this year, even if only some by invite-only who are not NDAed so we can get some reports on the blogs, then you blowing smoke at us

all the best tho and I hope we can build everything inworld like mesh-wise

ka kite ano

e.

 

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on more postive note

i think for content creators and merchants and general buyers then closed source everything (other than user-created inworld scripting) is the way to go

i have no interest in my online bank opensourcing their codes when they have my money in their vaults. I have no interest in my online poker game client being opensourced. I have no interest in RL merchants where I have accounts in opensourcing their codes

i like it when clients/viewers I use where I do have a money/commercial interest are closed source. I like it that they constantly update their clients to make it hard for hackers. I like it when their closed source clients snapshot all the hardware details and IDs on my computer. That way I know that they know is me. I want them to know is actually me and not somebody else try spoof me and pinch my dets and stuff

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

I want to respond to Ebbe's comment about the new business model and
taxing products
more.

 

You don't need to tax us at all. Think about it Ebbe. A tax on producers economically is saying you want them to create less. You never want to inhibit creation. You are this worlds government and hold a monopoly on many things. Use that monopoly to generate more income. As creators, and merchants, we want to advertise. We are begging to spend money on advertising. What does LL give us? CRAP!!!!! And then way over priced CRAP! Those enhancements for the Marketplace made LL a ton of money, but they SUCK, and are not well done. LL could get alot more out of them, and they should cut the price in half, when it works better. LL also opened up banner spaces on it's website, but it's at ridiculous prices. WTF was LL thinking? Did they not run some numbers? Yeah, it seems they gauge it on other popular websites. The logic escapes me. Again, my point is that LL has a monopoly on advertising and other aspect of SL. Don't tax us more. That is just lazy thinking. Be creative. Make something for us that we'll beg to pay for.

He was saying lower land tax and higher sales tax, as a trade off,  I think that would be a good trade off.  To me the cheaper the cost of land the more people will buy land, and with more land and more people with land, people will buy more.  All so if LL makes more from the marketplace then they have more of a vested interest to make sure it works right, and starting over may be the best way to make that happen.  If the sales tax is just on the marketplace then that might help bring more stores inworld specially with cheaper land, again I think that would be a good thing.

A tax on the merchants is not really a tax on them. The customers pay the tax, not the merchant. What I'm asking LL to do, is not force artificially higher content prices just to line their pockets. They have a HUGE monopoly that they are not utilizing at all. The Marketplace can make much more with better advertising opportunities for us. I'll willingly pay a crapload for good, provable, advertising. So will many other people. Heck, I would pay to have the search engine fixed. What I don't want to do is raise prices because LL is taxing my customers. No matter in real life or in virtual life, taxing is a lazy response to an economic problem. It's the result of an unwillingness to think of or try something new. The legitimate way to acquire wealth, is to produce it, not take it by coercion.

You know tho, if they wanted to up the upload cost. I would not be against that, just because it would make creators upload less junk stuff or test stuff. We'd also need better previewing of items before upload, like rigged clothing on the avatar moving around.

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So thre doing an Arena net and abandoning thre product to a skeleton crue while they go if and make a replacment. they do Relise no one will migrate given the Shere amount of money people have invested in Secondlife? 

 

Why not Take the Effort and actully FIX the current product? For example in the 7 years I have been in SL I have never seen Groupchat work properly and Simulator handoffs are still a huge gamble

 

Fix Secondlife 1 and prove you have the skills before you expect people to stat over in Secondlife2

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Jo Yardley wrote:

Just in case you missed it;

Earlier today Ebbe Altberg (CEO of Linden Lab) let slip that they are working on a new virtual world.

Here is the statement I received;

Linden Lab is working on a next generation virtual world that will be in the spirit of Second Life, an open world where users have incredible power to create anything they can imagine and content creators are king. This is a significant focus for Linden Lab, and we are actively hiring to help with this ambitious effort. We believe that there is a massive opportunity ahead to carry on the spirit of Second Life while leveraging the significant technological advancements that have occurred since its creation, as well as our unparalleled experience as the provider of the most successful user-created virtual world ever.

The next generation virtual world will go far beyond what is possible with Second Life, and we don’t want to constrain our development by setting backward compatibility with Second Life as an absolute requirement from the start. That doesn’t mean you necessarily won’t be able to bring parts of your Second Life over, just that our priority in building the next generation platform is to create an incredible experience and enable stunningly high-quality creativity, rather than ensuring that everything could work seamlessly with everything created over Second Life’s 11 year history.

Does this mean we’re giving up on Second Life? Absolutely not. It is thanks to the Second Life community that our virtual world today is without question the best there is, and after 11 years we certainly have no intention of abandoning our users nor the virtual world they continually fill with their astounding creativity. Second Life has many years ahead of it, and in addition to improvements and new developments specifically for Second Life, we think that much of the work we do for the next generation project will also be beneficial for Second Life.

It’s still very early days for this new project, and as we forge ahead in creating the next generation virtual world, we’ll share as much as we can.

If we had one message to share with Second Life users about this new project at this point, it would be: don’t panic, get excited! Again, Second Life isn’t going away, nor are we ceasing our work to improve it. But, we’re also working on something that we think will truly fulfill the promise of virtual worlds that few people understand as well as Second Life users.

 

Ebbe has been answering questions and you can read more here on my blog;

 

I'm a tiny bit excited.

But I'm more excited about a brand new Tesco superstore being built in my home town.

Both are likely to cause much controversy/intrigue/annoyance/delight/despair. A little bit of everything in one's life is no bad thing.

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Nice of Ebbe to show up over at SLU to engage them in some discussion. 

Looks around the SL website for mention of this anywhere.

Looks to see if Ebbe dropped by to reassure anyone here.

Looks to see if anyone here has come to the realization yet that LL, still again, has demonstrated that they are not interested in the user base.

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

Nice of Ebbe to show up over at SLU to engage them in some discussion. 

Looks around the SL website for mention of this anywhere.

Looks to see if Ebbe dropped by to reassure anyone here.

Looks to see if anyone here has come to the realization yet that LL, still again, has demonstrated that they are not interested in the user base.

May be true, but does not follow from this logic.

Rather, it just shows that these forums don't matter to LL. Well, duh. 

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

I want to respond to Ebbe's comment about the new business model and
taxing products
more.

 

You don't need to tax us at all. Think about it Ebbe. A tax on producers economically is saying you want them to create less. You never want to inhibit creation. You are this worlds government and hold a monopoly on many things. Use that monopoly to generate more income. As creators, and merchants, we want to advertise. We are begging to spend money on advertising. What does LL give us? CRAP!!!!! And then way over priced CRAP! Those enhancements for the Marketplace made LL a ton of money, but they SUCK, and are not well done. LL could get alot more out of them, and they should cut the price in half, when it works better. LL also opened up banner spaces on it's website, but it's at ridiculous prices. WTF was LL thinking? Did they not run some numbers? Yeah, it seems they gauge it on other popular websites. The logic escapes me. Again, my point is that LL has a monopoly on advertising and other aspect of SL. Don't tax us more. That is just lazy thinking. Be creative. Make something for us that we'll beg to pay for.

He was saying lower land tax and higher sales tax, as a trade off,  I think that would be a good trade off.  To me the cheaper the cost of land the more people will buy land, and with more land and more people with land, people will buy more.  All so if LL makes more from the marketplace then they have more of a vested interest to make sure it works right, and starting over may be the best way to make that happen.  If the sales tax is just on the marketplace then that might help bring more stores inworld specially with cheaper land, again I think that would be a good thing.

They have yet to lower land cost in SL1.. Why would we believe it would happen in SL2?

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Sounds awesome!

First thoughts were High fidelity related when i read this.:smileyhappy:

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Derek Torvalar wrote:

Nice of Ebbe to show up over at SLU to engage them in some discussion. 

Looks around the SL website for mention of this anywhere.

Looks to see if Ebbe dropped by to reassure anyone here.

Looks to see if anyone here has come to the realization yet that LL, still again, has demonstrated that they are not interested in the user base.

May be true, but does not follow from this logic.

Rather, it just shows that
these forums
don't matter to LL. Well, duh. 

Logic??!??

wut?

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Derek Torvalar wrote:

Nice of Ebbe to show up over at SLU to engage them in some discussion. 

Looks around the SL website for mention of this anywhere.

Looks to see if Ebbe dropped by to reassure anyone here.

Looks to see if anyone here has come to the realization yet that LL, still again, has demonstrated that they are not interested in the user base.

May be true, but does not follow from this logic.

Rather, it just shows that
these forums
don't matter to LL. Well, duh. 

Indeed, it can be argued that posting at SLU is proof that they are interested in their user base: that's where a goodly percentage of the *gag* "power users" hang out.

As for the SL forums . . . well, have you seen this place recently? :-(

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

Sounds awesome!

First thoughts were High fidelity related when i read this.:smileyhappy:

 

People keep evoking High Fidelity as though it was going to be a new shiny version of Second Life.

Everything that we know about High Fidelity suggests that, while the tech could cross over, the market, functionality, and purpose of that platform will be completely different. In fact, it is, in some ways, Second Life turned inside out.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:


Derek Torvalar wrote:

Nice of Ebbe to show up over at SLU to engage them in some discussion. 

Looks around the SL website for mention of this anywhere.

Looks to see if Ebbe dropped by to reassure anyone here.

Looks to see if anyone here has come to the realization yet that LL, still again, has demonstrated that they are not interested in the user base.

May be true, but does not follow from this logic.

Rather, it just shows that
these forums
don't matter to LL. Well, duh. 

Indeed, it can be argued that posting at SLU is proof that they are interested in their user base: that's where a goodly percentage of the *gag* "power users" hang out.

As for the SL forums . . . well, have you 
seen
this place recently? :-(

Rushes to the washroom to get the dullness off before it sets in.

(Was looking at the archive from 2010 and was reading the Gorean Master thread Lasky.An epic ride of 72 pages of hilarity. Ah the good old days)

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So i am guessing in the new world you won't be able to set things for sale! and just use a new MP

Thats a fail from the start!

LL already charge way too much in server space now!

As a creator why should I subsidise for others to use the new world?

Its hard enough to make L$ now that everyone and their dog that has no land sells things on the MP at a very cheap price!

 

Phoebe

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I think a lot of land shrinkage in sl is due to the MP many shop owners have closed up and only sell on the MP now some of these people had clubs or rp sims they also closed!

The influx of people selling very cheap items on the MP beacause they don't have any land costs forces prices down!

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

Sounds awesome!

First thoughts were High fidelity related when i read this.:smileyhappy:

 

People keep evoking High Fidelity as though it was going to be a new shiny version of Second Life.

Everything that we know about High Fidelity suggests that, while the tech could cross over, the market, functionality, and purpose of that platform will be completely different. In fact, it is, in some ways, Second Life turned inside out.

High Fidelity is phillips, which i have been looking forward to..

Whatever these guys here decide to make this new world with ,i'll be looking forward to that one as well.

Be it a High Fidelity type or whatever they choose..

If it's brand spanking new,i'm up for that if it happens.

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

I think a lot of land shrinkage in sl is due to the MP many shop owners have closed up and only sell on the MP now some of these people had clubs or rp sims they also closed!

The influx of people selling very cheap items on the MP beacause they don't have any land costs forces prices down!

Linden Lab has 11 years of experience, and presumably heaps of data, to help guide their creation of a "business plan" for this. There has also been a ton of research -- theoretical and practical -- on virtual economies.

I'm less concerned that they won't be able to come up with a workable and sustainable model, than that the one they implement will seriously impede or even destroy the relative "openness" that has characterized Second Life. SL was imagined socially as a kind of libertarian paradise, and economically as a free market economy. Both have had positive and negative impacts on the place, but they have at least ensured that Second Life was more the creature of its users than of its designers.

I suspect that the new VW will be both much more carefully engineered, and a great deal more restrictive.

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With no disrespect to you :)

I would say one thing 'viewer 2' shows how much LL know about what residents need or want,

Sory but i am very sceptical about any of what LL ever propose as good^^

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

With no disrespect to you
:)

I would say one thing 'viewer 2' shows how much LL know about what residents need or want,

Sory but i am very sceptical about any of what LL ever propose as good^^

Well, access to data and information is one thing. The competent analysis and deployment of it is, admittedlly, another.

I will grant that LL has not always inspired a great deal of confidence in that respect. Stil, it has to be said that 11 years of relatively stable existence (even if it has come to resemble stagnation of late) is not a bad accomplishment.

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