Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[kiramanell]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

I don't see how such a localised law would affect the rest of the EU or give anyone the power to shut US services out of member country markets, above and beyond any other trade agreement.

Happy to be educated on this point, I've been trying to get a source on this thing the whole way through, no-one's heard of it.

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You obviously don't understand how an EU directive work, but it is mandated to be worked into the legilsation of all member states. So there is nothing localized about it. :-)  There is plenty of source on it - go to the gaming thread or search EU documents. 

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Actually, "mandated to be worked into the legilsation of all member states" is *precisely* that: making EU Directives localized. Or domesticated, with a fancy word, as EU Directive are not themselves Law. Rather, a EU Directive is a legal act which requires member states to achieve a particular result, without dictating the means of achieving that result. Member states are then required to start legislative procedures to implement the required result. The EU Directive does *not* mandate what the localized legislation looks like -- so long as the desired result is achieved.

[Gavin Hird]

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kiramanell wrote:

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-- so long as the desired result is achieved.

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The desired outcome is pretty clear in this case; make sure internet service providers operate under the same requirements when it comes to consumer rights, privacy protection, warranties, refunds – what have you, wether they are operating from inside or outside the EU countries. 

Since the requirements for anyone inside the union is pretty crystal clear at the moment, implementing this should be straightforward. There are some controls that needs to be put in place, however, but they are more technical than legislative.  

 

The message for LL with regards to SLv2 is to get their house in order and make sure they have the requirements for marketing into EU ready from day one. And while they are at it, they can start cleaning up the current TOS as everyone would benefit from the European requirements. Then also regulate anything that has to do with content providers in a developer agreement – which is a business to business type contract and not consumer TOS. 

[Leia36]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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kiramanell wrote:

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-- so long as the desired result is achieved.

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The desired outcome is pretty clear in this case; make sure internet service providers operate under the same requirements when it comes to consumer rights, privacy protection, warranties, refunds – what have you, wether they are operating from inside or outside the EU countries. 

Since the requirements for anyone inside the union is pretty crystal clear at the moment, implementing this should be straightforward. There are some controls that needs to be put in place, however, but they are more technical than legislative.  

 

The message for LL with regards to SLv2 is to get their house in order and make sure they have the requirements for marketing into EU ready from day one. And while they are at it, they can start cleaning up the current TOS as everyone would benefit from the European requirements. Then also regulate anything that has to do with content providers in a developer agreement – which is a business to business type contract and not consumer TOS. 

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Iran has banned SL completely, yet Iranians still come to SL... those laws mean sweet nothing, if Germany want's to join Iran, indeed if any government wants to stop access to SL,, good luck to them, Australia almost banned SL at some point ,,

[Gavin Hird]

Yeh, but the requirement is for all service providers regardless of what service they offer who target a customer inside a 500 million people market. It is much easiest to rewrite the TOS than to risk being shut out.

[Leia36]

Sure, but if LL excludes adult content, the diamond becomes a pebble on the riverbed of social media.. lets face it, sex sells, its as ancient as adam and eve, love is even more powerful and both will keep driving people to platforms where both may be found and enjoyed/lived.

[Gavin Hird]

There is no EU requirement not to have adult content in a service, but if you do, you will be slap on a 17+ age requirement in certain distribution channels.

 

There are many ways of organizing the service so you can have a squeaky clean family oriented service and one that takes care of the adult market. However, I would not market them together in any way or form. But if you go back to very early in this thread you can read my first or second post on how things can be organized to accommodate more diversity, broader cultural base and also take care of narrow legislative requirements in some geos.

[Leia36]

Your ideas have merit, I just wish that this could be discussed without all the vitriol that has occurred, its an important point that you raise about 18+ there is no place for children in any adult environment

[Gavin Hird]

I agree with you on that. I think the vitrioil stems from the fact that many people don't seem to realize that people across the globe lives in and belongs to very diverse legislative and cultural realities where what you may think is mainstream and a given, in other realities are forbidden, taboo or unwanted. 

For SecondLife (both current and whartever comes in the future) to accomodate this, the service needs to be organized differently so it can embrace as many cultures and legislations as possible, and not try and shoe-horn everything into a glossy, somewhat superficial and political correct California Dreaming experience that many find both uninteresting and uninspiring, or for some even forbidden. 

[Phil Deakins]

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Leia36 wrote:

Your ideas have merit, I just wish that this could be discussed without all the vitriol that has occurred, its an important point that you raise about 18+ there is no place for children in any adult environment

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What's this 18+ bit? Here in my part of the EU it's 16+

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Leia36 wrote:

Your ideas have merit, I just wish that this could be discussed without all the vitriol that has occurred, its an important point that you raise about 18+ there is no place for children in any adult environment

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What's this 18+ bit? Here in my part of the EU it's 16+

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I would love to see a EU 16 year old argue with LL that they are adult.

[Phil Deakins]

hehe. S/he could argue but it wouldn't get them anywhere because LL uses local law, which is either California or the U.S.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I agree with you on that. I think the vitrioil stems from the fact that many people don't seem to realize that people across the globe lives in and belongs to very diverse legislative and cultural realities where what you may think is mainstream and a given, in other realities are forbidden, taboo or unwanted. 

For SecondLife (both current and whartever comes in the future) to accomodate this, the service needs to be organized differently so it can embrace as many cultures and legislations as possible, and not try and shoe-horn everything into a glossy, somewhat superficial and political correct California Dreaming experience that many find both uninteresting and uninspiring, or for some even forbidden. 

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No, the vitriol stems from people putting down and insulting others on their choice of lifestyle. Just because you don't like something doesn't give you or anyone else the right to insult others that do.

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

The law clearly only has power over German citizens

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Which is all I have been talking about in this thread.

 

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

There is no apparent threat to German Second Life users

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Only that causing pornographic depictions without safe age verification being in place is a crime and that German police officers are present in SL.

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Leia36 wrote:

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Germany or any other country does not have the power to dictate to other countries their laws.

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Germany undoubtedly has the power to prosecute it's own citizens who distribute porn without age verification, no matter where the internet service they are using resides.

 

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Leia36 wrote:

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SL is not standard porn as I understand it, so your assumption is incorrect.

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I was responding to a post that dealt with porn in general. And of course there is also standard porn in SL, it would be strange if there was only non-standard porn in SL.

 

[Thomas Galbreus]

Ok. Since you insist I am of the mass-murderer-type:

People who declare to be past argumentation, because it is sufficient for them to defame their opponents and to bask themselves in being part of the majority, are of the type that causes genocides.

"That's probably not something you want to hear either, though, but something you objectively probably know to be true blah blah."

 

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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How do you know its bad acting?

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You think the average performer in porn has acting skills? Detecting bad acting there is not rocket science.

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Condoms are a part of mainstream porn nowadays. Usually if you do not see one it is due to the fact that the actors are monogamous with each other.

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LOL.

 

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You really think Porn stars dont use birth control?

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Porn actors do a lot of things that are not shown or communicated in porn, like, they usually have to provide a recent medical certificate that shows they have no STD. But what is shown to the consumers is random sexual activity with random poeple. If porn is influential, it applies to what is shown and not to circumstances behind the scenes.

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Just because they tie up a woman and treat her like a sex toy does not mean they hate her, nor does it mean she is being abused.

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I've established that, according to your fine morals, tying a woman up and using her is a sign of love and respect.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Thomas Galbreus wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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How do you know its bad acting?

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You think the average performer in porn has acting skills? Detecting bad acting there is not rocket science.

 

How do you know they are acting. How do you know they don't actually make those noises when they orgasm? 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Condoms are a part of mainstream porn nowadays. Usually if you do not see one it is due to the fact that the actors are monogamous with each other.

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LOL.

 

Apparently you don't have access to mainstream porn. 

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You really think Porn stars dont use birth control?

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Porn actors do a lot of things that are not shown or communicated in porn, like, they usually have to provide a recent medical certificate that shows they have no STD. But what is shown to the consumers is random sexual activity with random poeple. If porn is influential, it applies to what is shown and not to circumstances behind the scenes.

 

So, you seem to think that people think porn in real and what every relationship should be like. So by that ligic we can expect sharknados and giant Kaiju shortly then? If movies are real, as your logic seems to show. I think people understand that pron is not realistic. 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Just because they tie up a woman and treat her like a sex toy does not mean they hate her, nor does it mean she is being abused.

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I've established that, according to your fine morals, tying a woman up and using her is a sign of love and respect.

Yup.

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[Coby Foden]

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Thomas Galbreus wrote:

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

The law clearly only has power over German citizens

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Which is all I have been talking about in this thread.

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But why in this thread?   

Why not start a new thread: "Porn and German law"?

 

This thread is about: "Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world"  Nothing to do with German law.

  Thanks.  :smileyhappy:

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines

Off Topic Content: Please keep your commentary relevant to the discussion and within the format that the forum, board or question and answer area require. Content that is blatantly off topic is not permitted.

:smileywink:

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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 How do you know they are acting. How do you know they don't actually make those noises when they orgasm? 

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You know, some people have experienced real female orgasms, so they have something to compare.

If you are interested in experiencing real female orgasms, try other things with female bodies than using them like a sex toy.

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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But why in this thread? shrug-1.gif Why not start a new thread: "Porn and German law"?

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As I said before, I just said it as a side note, to Ebbe Altberg who talked about things that would be legal in SL. Apparently he did not mean legal everywhere.

Then people began talking BS about it and I only corrected their mistakes.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Thomas Galbreus wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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 How do you know they are acting. How do you know they don't actually make those noises when they orgasm? 

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You know, some people have experienced real femal orgasms, so they have something to compare.

If you are interested in experiencing real female orgasms, try other things with female bodies than using them like a sex toy.

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I have, you would too if you ever left your parents basement. There you go, assuming things again.

[Thomas Galbreus]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

I have

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You don't give the impression if you can't distinguish it from terribly bad acting in standard porn.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Thomas Galbreus wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

I have

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You don' give the impression if you can't distinguish it from terribly bad acting in standard porn.

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Seeing as you think all standard porn is misogynistic, i can see where you would think it is bad acting. Perhaps you need to find better quality porn.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Thomas Galbreus wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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 How do you know they are acting. How do you know they don't actually make those noises when they orgasm? 

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You know, some people have experienced real female orgasms, so they have something to compare.

If you are interested in experiencing real female orgasms, try other things with female bodies than using them like a sex toy.

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I don't think Drake is likely to ever experience a real female orgasm. He's got the wrong plumbing.

I think I could make just about any noise imaginable, though this one remains on my bucket list...

A few years ago, I accidentally discovered that taking my neighbor for a ride on my tandem bicycle qualifies as an "other thing". She asked me to pull over and stop because she felt "weird". As she fanned herself, I realized that "weird" was a euphamism. She never rode with me again.

I continue to enjoy riding.

A lot.

;-).

[Perrie Juran]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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<snip>

A few years ago, I accidentally discovered that taking my neighbor for a ride on my tandem bicycle qualifies as an "other thing". She asked me to pull over and stop because she felt "weird". As she fanned herself, I realized that "weird" was a euphamism. She never rode with me again.

I continue to enjoy riding.

A lot.

;-).

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Women are not the only ones who can get a weird feeling.