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Jo Yardley

Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

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MB Robonaught wrote:

Thanks for the heads up on that but please forgive if I'm ignorant on saying isn't that just a graph of the median number of transactions through the database and not the number of people online? I also never said that there was a sudden drop of people leaving SL but a decline over the 2 years. 

I assume that when Tyche labels something "median daily concurrency"  she intends the word "concurrency" to mean what it normally does in this context -- median number of users online at the same time during the 24 hour period.    

Why do you think she might mean anything different by it?   (It's easy enough to ask her, I guess).

If you're thinking her data about the number of Lindex transations, that's in a different part of the website, at http://gridsurvey.com/lindex.php

As to what you said, your words were Compare the numbers online from before the annoucement and recently.

I did as you suggested, and I'm not sure what conclusion you want me to draw.   Could please tell me what figures I should be looking at, where I can find them,  and what you want me to see in them?

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I suspect that English isn't MB's first language and he's confusing the word 'concurrency' with 'currency'.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I suspect that English isn't MB's first language and he's confusing the word 'concurrency' with 'currency'.

Concurrency is the ability of a database to allow multiple users to affect multiple transactions. This is one of the main properties that separates a database from other forms of data storage like spreadsheets.

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/27385/concurrency-databases

guess again, I manage databases every day to create data such as that.

It boggles my mind that nobody replied to the topic of my post on the very poor marketing techniques by Linden Labs.

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MB Robonaught wrote:

It boggles my mind that nobody replied to the topic of my post on the very poor marketing techniques by Linden Labs.


It is unfortunately not the first time tech companies prematurely announce new products, while totally underestimating the effort to develop, launch and market said product.  There is something Microsoftesque over the announcement...

I also think the timing of the announcement was due to the hype around Hifidelity and Occulus at the time, + that Ebbe had been touring OpenSim grids and found they to a large extent could house the same content and experience as SecondLife. 

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In the context of SL, though, "concurrency" is generally used to mean "number of users online at the same time (i.e. concurrently)".   That's how it's used, for example, in the Wikipedia article on SL.

Anyway, though, what figures of showing "numbers online from before the annoucement and recently"  did you want us to compare and where are they to be found?

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Gavin Hird wrote:

It is unfortunately not the first time tech companies prematurely announce new products, while totally underestimating the effort to develop, launch and market said product.  There is something Microsoftesque over the announcement...

I also think the timing of the announcement was due to the hype around Hifidelity and Occulus at the time, + that Ebbe had been touring OpenSim grids and found they to a large extent could house the same content and experience as SecondLife. 

Also, though, people were, I think, noticing that LL had suddenly started advertising for and  hiring a lot of new developers who didn't seem to have any role in SL, and had started wondering what they were doing.

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MB Robonaught wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

I suspect that English isn't MB's first language and he's confusing the word 'concurrency' with 'currency'.

Concurrency is the ability of a database to allow multiple users to affect multiple transactions. This is one of the main properties that separates a database from other forms of data storage like spreadsheets.

guess again, I manage databases every day to create data such as that.

In the context that we're discussing, concurrency means exactly what Innula said it means, and nothing else. In fact, the word has a number of definitions, the one you decribed being just one of them. In a post, you equated it to financial transaction, but I think I'm right in saying that the definition you gave doesn't mean financial transactions. You can correct if I'm wrong about that, but I understand it to mean database accesses, not financial transactions. Your mistake is probably understandable though.

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MB Robonaught wrote:

As far as I can see that survey only goes back 60 days and not the almost two years needed to view the change. The survey only registers logins and does not reflect the number of users online at any given moment. I base my info from being a succesful SL business person since 2008 that watches the online count very close to dictate when the best oportunities for sales occur. The other night there were less than 30,000 online which is a far cry from before. Also try looking at the entire point of my post.

I think I've addressed your concerns here...

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/m-p/3018395#M223627

That's the daily tabulation of the year to year change in average daily concurrency for the last five years.

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I did not equate it to a financial transaction. A database transactions are a sequence of steps performed on a data base. Second Life is a database based operation so only definitions that apply to databases are correct unless you think a stock car drives into  big hole when they pull in the pits. Please let's get back on topic I posted. Linden Lab blew the marketing of Sansar period. 

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MB Robonaught wrote:

I don’t know what Linden Lab is up to but this has to be one of the top ten examples of how NOT to do marketing. 

 

I'm going on nine years in SL, and this has been the situation, the entire time.  For everything LL does. 

 

I'm just surprised that you're surprised.  *laughing*

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MB Robonaught wrote:

I did not equate it to a financial transaction. A database transactions are a sequence of steps performed on a data base. Second Life is a database based operation so only definitions that apply to databases are correct unless you think a stock car drives into  big hole when they pull in the pits. Please let's get back on topic I posted. Linden Lab blew the marketing of Sansar period. 

My mistake. This is what you wrote:-

"Thanks for the heads up on that but please forgive if I'm ignorant on saying isn't that just a graph of the median number of transactions through the database and not the number of people online? I also never said that there was a sudden drop of people leaving SL but a decline over the 2 years."

In the context of Second Life, 'transactions' implies buying and selling - financial. What you wrote is accurate, but it's what made me think that you were referring to transactions as in Transactions History, which are always financial, even when 0L transactions are made. It was your use of a specialised meaning of the word, which most of us wouldn't realise, that led me astray.

Anyway, 'concurrency', in the context of SL, means the number of users online simultaneously, so it's the perfect metric to indicate the rise or fall of SL. Judging by the graphs shown, it appears that the announcement of Sansar hasn't affected SL at all, so I'm still waiting for you to produce evidence to support your statement that it caused people to leave SL. Even anicdotal evidence would be something.

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Concurrency as reported on my gridsurvey site is the number of user accounts logged into Second Life at any particular time . The data is provided by Linden Lab via the llsd feed (its one of the few public stats feeds still running). I sample and store the data from  the feed at 10 minute intervals. Daily I calculate the Median and Mean values for the past 24 hours and report these on the site. The same feed also provides total signups to date which I also store and report

 

The concurrency figures are an accurate measure of the number of accounts logged in at any one time. I have used my survey bots to confirm that reported concurrency is more or less the same figure as if you counted every  green dot on the map .

 

Of course logged in accounts does include bots, idle accounts and people who may be logged in more than once. Nevertheless it's probably the best public measure of SL usage we have.

 

As several have pointed there is little evidence of any increase in the overall decline since Sansar was announced and as with private estate declines which I also regularly report on , the past 12 months or so have shown a general slowing down in the rate of decline than previous years . There is a general decline overall , but it doesn't seem to been exacerbated by more recent Linden Lab announcements

I've also copied in my median daily concurrency time series decompostion chart which identifies overall seasonality and and trend over the past 7 years , As you can see , if anything the more recent trend has almost flattened out

 



 

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So you're the one who is responsible for all those bots littering the place :D

I am merely responsible for adding 1 to your numbers (I always have 2 avatars logged in simultaneously).

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MB Robonaught wrote:

I did not equate it to a financial transaction. A database transactions are a sequence of steps performed on a data base. Second Life is a database based operation so only definitions that apply to databases are correct unless you think a stock car drives into  big hole when they pull in the pits. Please let's get back on topic I posted. Linden Lab blew the marketing of Sansar period. 

Phil, you were right all along - Second Life isn't a game after all, it's a database! 

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


MB Robonaught wrote:

I did not equate it to a financial transaction. A database transactions are a sequence of steps performed on a data base. Second Life is a database based operation so only definitions that apply to databases are correct unless you think a stock car drives into  big hole when they pull in the pits. Please let's get back on topic I posted. Linden Lab blew the marketing of Sansar period. 

Phil, you were right all along - Second Life isn't a game after all,
it's a database! 

Now that is an interesting thought which reminded me that while they refer to themselves as "Linden Lab," actually it is "Linden Research, Inc., d/b/a Linden Lab." 

During my early days in SL someone told me that it was psychological research in mind control that they were doing and that I should be very afraid and concerned that I was being used as a guinea pig.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


MB Robonaught wrote:

I did not equate it to a financial transaction. A database transactions are a sequence of steps performed on a data base. Second Life is a database based operation so only definitions that apply to databases are correct unless you think a stock car drives into  big hole when they pull in the pits. Please let's get back on topic I posted. Linden Lab blew the marketing of Sansar period. 

Phil, you were right all along - Second Life isn't a game after all,
it's a database! 

I knew it! I just knew in my bones! Why in the world did anybody doubt me?

 

:)

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Perrie Juran wrote:


 

During my early days in SL someone told me that it was psychological research in mind control that they were doing and that I should be very afraid and concerned that I was being used as a guinea pig.

Market research is psychological research in mind control where you see on tv that a lizard has got a car he was driving stuck in a tree so you buy thier car insurance :P

Oh btw Perrie check out http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/publications/observer/2007/june-july-07/get-a-second-life.html for a very interesting read on what you said:)

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Everyone knows that the gimmick they call the rift or VR will never be enough to make us drop years of investment into our avatars, it will have to be something big like actual working avatar physics or the like.

 

Designers will go where their customers are so unless you're doing big improvements i say good luck getting people into your new and more expensive Second Life.

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In my time in SL many new worlds have poped up and we stayed put. We have a lot of time, energy, and money invested in our creation. Build your new world if you see fit but we, (our group, our continent, our world), are not going anywhere.

With that in mind, if your creation is not part of SL, it will be one more new world we do not care about. We are actually pretty content with SL and what we have created. Enhance it or leave us alone. No offense but I could care less about a new competing world.

Now if you really want to do something, give us windowed pop-ups, like inventory and chat, that I can slide over to the other monitors. THAT would be a innovation I could use!

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Loniki Loudon wrote:

In my time in SL many new worlds have poped up and we stayed put. We have a lot of time, energy, and money invested in our creation.
Build your new world if you see fit but we, (our group, our continent, our world), are not going anywhere.

With that in mind, if your creation is not part of SL, it will be one more new world we do not care about. We are actually pretty content with SL and what we have created. Enhance it or leave us alone. No offense but I could care less about a new competing world.

Now if you really want to do something, give us windowed pop-ups, like inventory and chat, that I can slide over to the other monitors. THAT would be a innovation I could use!

They'll really appreciate that. You've made them wait 2 years for you to give them the go-ahead. Two years during which you were no doubt nowhere near SL because, if you had been, you wouldn't have written that post now.

Btw, if you'd been anywhere near SL in the last two years you would know that the title of this thread is wrong.. LL is not building a new virtual world, although we didn't know that when the thread was posted.

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