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Jo Yardley

Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

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"I did not say I was shutting anything down. Where did you get that? I said we're going to invest in our future success in a major way. If you have long term interest in our (and your) success that should be good news to you. If you think I should have told you much later that we're making that investment, when I would have more details, then ok, consider that a mistake I made. Many people want to know that we are doing that and are very happy to hear it. You did not want to know that now, but rather hear a more detailed plan say six months from now?"

Nothing against a better SL. But it´s perfectly clear that SL2 is intended to replace SL1. So yes. you frankly told people that SL as it is now will be shut down, cladded by a wishiwashi "once it´s not proftable anymore" statement and an undefined time span.

As a content creator i am not willing to invest more time and money  into a zombie platform unless i know exactly about a migration plan and which parts of my creations will be portable to SL2 and which will be lost (in a technical sense). Communities (which i consider being content creators, too) want to know about the new community rules (like how do you deal with so-called "adult" content in SL2 - nipples or no nipples?).

As a consumer i am not willing to spend any money or time on something of which i do not know exactly if it will be of any value in SL2 or not.

For now all i know is that there will be "winners" and "losers". That´s inavoidable, but you simply cannot keep SL1 going (until 2.0 is up) without any clear specification of "win" and "lose" and by leaving people in total uncertainity and confusion.

The lasting impression is that Linden Lab itself is uncertain and confused about what SL2 will be and look like, and that´s not a promising perspective.

"Better" is not a valuable description, Linden Lab had 11 years to make SL "better" (and made it better in many areas). Not valuable enough for any further investments of time and money. Please clarify. And please do it as soon as possible or the cow you milk will wander to fields where Linden Lab has no benefits at all. And then we´ll neither have SL1 nor SL2.

 

 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


Callum Meriman wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

maaan !!! and I am that one gets called crazy person sometimes. jejejjejeje (:

 

huehuehue, so funny. Consider this:

With this brave new world that on Day 1, when the switch is flipped and the world's press enters cameras at the ready,

Why on earth do you think "the world's press" is likely to find the launch of SL2 of any particular interest?      Strikes me it would have to be a pretty slow news day.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and you and the others are correct.

I hope that LL will allow kids roleplayers to inhabit their new world and freely move around. To be fully accepted. After all, I do roleplay as a kid and have a rather large inventory of Loki's wonderful mesh creations over all my alts.

I also in the same breath hope that LL will allow the very different subcultures of Gor, BDSM, Dolcett, Rape & Capture, and other such forms of adult activity. I do this as I actually believe in freedom. True freedom of expression and self in the virtual space is crucial in my eyes to it's take up as anything more than just a time-filling game.

But to hide from the fact that such a reboot is a perfect time to "sweep out the cobwebs" and sanitise the environment so that school kids on their iPhones can play it during recess, seems to me to be hiding from a path that is very possible.

So, I raise the point: ebbe Linden can say to Loki - who is one of the three leading content creators in kid roleplay - that he can't wait to look at what Loki makes in SL... and I can raise the point that once he looks and sees what will his thoughts be?

That kid roleplayers are harmless and innocuous (the truth I see) and very much welcome in SL and SLv2 or that kid roleplayers are sexual deviants (the truth of a vocal group of people in SL and these forums) who, along with Gor, Rape, Furries and Dolcett, pose a risk to the monetisation strategies of the lab?

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A more detailed plan in six months would have been the smart move i think!

People can not plan at this time because there are no details just vague comments, LL should have posted this on the Blog with a list of requirements and details

The way it is now you just chucked the cat amongst the pigeons and uncertainty and panic has set it I know more than one content creator that is now dumping their regions as i type this!

LL always think better tech is the answer to everything,

Have the new resident landing areas been updated yet to fantastic places to see SL for the first time?

Two months ago i went to a Linden region for new residents, the tutorials there were for Viewer 1, the note card giver gave out a note card to something related to 2009? the whole build looked like a noob had built it, I am wondering if LL forgot they have this region?

 

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Callum Meriman wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:


Callum Meriman wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

maaan !!! and I am that one gets called crazy person sometimes. jejejjejeje (:

 

huehuehue, so funny. Consider this:

With this brave new world that on Day 1, when the switch is flipped and the world's press enters cameras at the ready,

Why on earth do you think "the world's press" is likely to find the launch of SL2 of any particular interest?      Strikes me it would have to be a pretty slow news day.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and
you
and the others are correct.

I hope that LL will allow kids roleplayers to inhabit their new world and freely move around. To be fully accepted. After all, I do roleplay as a kid and have a rather large inventory of Loki's wonderful mesh creations over all my alts.

I also in the same breath hope that LL will allow the very different subcultures of Gor, BDSM, Dolcett, Rape & Capture, and other such forms of adult activity. I do this as I actually believe in freedom. True freedom of expression and self in the virtual space is crucial in my eyes to it's take up as anything more than just a time-filling game.

But to hide from the fact that such a reboot is a perfect time to "sweep out the cobwebs" and sanitise the environment so that school kids on their iPhones can play it during recess, seems to me to be hiding from a path that is very possible.

So, I raise the point: ebbe Linden can say to Loki - who is one of the three leading content creators in kid roleplay - that he can't wait to look at what Loki makes in SL... and I can raise the point that once he looks and sees what will his thoughts be?

That kid roleplayers are harmless and innocuous (the truth I see) and very much welcome in SL and SLv2 or that kid roleplayers are sexual deviants (the truth of a vocal group of people in SL and these forums) who,
along with Gor, Rape, Furries and Dolcett,
 pose a risk to the monetisation strategies of the lab?

Some of the comments I see make me want to yell, "Babs, there IS NO FARMER!"

We're used to the idea of one grid for all of Second Life but if the basic structure is revisited there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be organized in parallel universes with different attributes - perhaps one where kids can run around in freedom and one where adults can do absolutely every sexual act the can imagine in public, advertised to different RL communities, and any given account can access either one or the other depending on their interests, knowing/caring nothing about the other. If someone's  interested in both (or the other 18 parallel universes) and willing to behave appropriately the account can be set up so they can go from world to world whenever they like as easily more easily than you can go from one region to another in the current setup.

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Callum Meriman wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:


Callum Meriman wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

maaan !!! and I am that one gets called crazy person sometimes. jejejjejeje (:

 

huehuehue, so funny. Consider this:

With this brave new world that on Day 1, when the switch is flipped and the world's press enters cameras at the ready,

Why on earth do you think "the world's press" is likely to find the launch of SL2 of any particular interest?      Strikes me it would have to be a pretty slow news day.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and
you
and the others are correct.

I hope that LL will allow kids roleplayers to inhabit their new world and freely move around. To be fully accepted. After all, I do roleplay as a kid and have a rather large inventory of Loki's wonderful mesh creations over all my alts.

I also in the same breath hope that LL will allow the very different subcultures of Gor, BDSM, Dolcett, Rape & Capture, and other such forms of adult activity. I do this as I actually believe in freedom. True freedom of expression and self in the virtual space is crucial in my eyes to it's take up as anything more than just a time-filling game.

But to hide from the fact that such a reboot is a perfect time to "sweep out the cobwebs" and sanitise the environment so that school kids on their iPhones can play it during recess, seems to me to be hiding from a path that is very possible.

So, I raise the point: ebbe Linden can say to Loki - who is one of the three leading content creators in kid roleplay - that he can't wait to look at what Loki makes in SL... and I can raise the point that once he looks and sees what will his thoughts be?

That kid roleplayers are harmless and innocuous (the truth I see) and very much welcome in SL and SLv2 or that kid roleplayers are sexual deviants (the truth of a vocal group of people in SL and these forums) who,
along with Gor, Rape, Furries and Dolcett,
 pose a risk to the monetisation strategies of the lab?

You raise the question of  the lab's "monetisation strategies."    From what Ebbe's said (I can look up where, if you want), they're planning on reducing their reliance on income from "land tax" (i.e, tier) in SL2, and making up their income from "sales tax."   This being the case, I'd think that Adult Content will become more, not less, important as an income stream, since Adult items can, by and large, be used on both Adult and Mature land (that is, someone who hardly ever visits Adult sims will, nevertheless, probably buy Adult furniture and so forth for use at home on a M sim or homestead).    

At present, Adult sims comprise just under 23% of private regions in SL.   That is, There's sufficient interest in Adult Content to keep over 20% of private sims going -- and the people who own and use those sims don't just buy Adult stuff, of course; they buy shoes and clothes and hair and skns and stuff, too.    While I don't think LL is likely to want to stress Adult Content (or most other forms of RP) in its marketing, it would be insane for the Lab actively to discourage such a large section of the user base from moving to SL 2, at least to my mind.   

I don't know what the equivalent figures are for Kids in SL, but I suspect -- from what I make on shared commissions for scripting I've done for some popular products for SL Kids -- that SL Kid-dom must represent almost as large a market as Adult Content, and probably more in terms of what people spend on shopping rather than tier.

Time will tell, but I really don't see Ebbe trying to discourage large, and high spending, sectors of the SL market from moving to SL 2.    I don't really expect to see much happening in public for the next 18 months or so, as far as SL2 is concerned,  and I would think SL 1 has at least another 5 years of active life ahead of it (considerably more if SL Kids and Adult Content are both encouraged to stay on the old platform rather than migrate!).

Anway, we shall see.   At this early stage I'm certainly not worried about either Adult Content or any other form of RP being discouraged in the new SL.

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Callum Meriman wrote:


I hope that LL will allow kids roleplayers to inhabit their new world and freely move around. To be fully accepted.

LL do now. Ebbe said he looks forward to seeing what Loki will make. Ebbe is fully aware of who Loki Eliot is

Freely move. LL do allow child avatars to freely move around. In those areas of the grid which are consistent with the behaviours and activities of a child. Why would that not be the case

Fully accepted. By who exactly? Other residents in the game? Parcel/sim owner rules trump the need/want/desire of anybody else who wants/desires access to that persons property

if everyone have to accept child avatars bc special snowflake then I be sweet. When I am on my simboard then cant get refused entry to parcel or get killed by a orb bc child avatar snowflake

just so you know. I got a child avatar. I rent on a child-friendly sim. I get really annoyed by other SL child avatars who think they somehow get lumped in with Adult roleplay. Do me a favour ok. Just stop it.

and stop going to sims which are clearly designed for SL mature grownup adult avatars and mature/adult activity. Maybe you dont. But from how you talking you seem to have plenty experience of it

 

 

 

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I personaly think this is awful, really really awful. I don't care how much better the avatars will be looking and all the new features on the new second life, the fact how much lindens people have spendt on this game is shocking at least now that we know that there's a new platform being made and that we get nothing for it after using all these in rl money on this old one, no refund and nothing at all. Creators will have to start from scratch uploading everything on new and so on, and some might keep being in the old one, there is no bright future for both the new or the old secondlife as far as i see, these years of updates havent really changed much in sl well the shadows,the mesh and so on was big changes, as i've heard the old secondlife is hard to "update" to a better one, but far as ive seen they havent done **bleep** to sl, havent helped residents that needed help, simply didnt care about anything and letting creators make sl for them, and now their making this new crap that will probly ruin everything and throw all the work that creators have done for it, im not planning to use plenty of money AGAIN to get a decent avi and get back what i had, god knows how much i spendt on this game and how much i earned via my shop that will go to an end be couse the creator making the 2.0 avatar, anime avatars will maybe not go over to the new one, i don't know but i'm pretty much sure that this is just going to hell. I know the old sl wont go away just like that but sooner or later it will, i like sl as it is, how much more realism do we need on this game? till we forget that it is a game? These ugly linden avatars makes creators work harder and experiment more to make a better secondlife, why ruining it?

It's fun to hear that linden labs are actually working on a new platform, but it would of been better if we got a refund on how much we had spendt on second life, yes we get a well good amount from it but we will still use money on it after we had spendt what we used in the old second life, the reason i want a refund onto the new one is because i want to have the avatar i have now and worked hard on on the new one, not to buy new **bleep** but just get what i had into the new one, i could of used my money on something better if i knew about this before, a big vacation! But i love secondlife it was my life the period i got bullied and i didnt have a "life" in rl, now that its working better for me im happy how much secondlife have learned me, and now seeing how much ive wasted is making me sad and mad, i got a shop i got friends and i got a decent good inventory, but if i had to get new sl  i would lose some of my friends, i would of wasten in rl money on something going down after a while, i lose my shop and i lose in rl money that i have to use on the new one to get what i had or maybe  i never will because some of the creators wont use the new sl at all, it would be great if the lindens,lands and so on was cheaper on the new one, the  prices on lands on he old one makes me cry, more ppl would use money then and the new sl would be HUGE with plenty of different lands to choose from, but for now i will use the old one till there is something big about the new one that makes me change my mind, but for now it havent amused me at all. I would rather see linden labs fix the old one than making a new platform, get some skilled scripters and so on and fire the old ones and get it fixed damnit lol, never give up the impossible.

Thank you anyways.

 

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I am a Premium member with a next bill date of 07/26/14. I have simply one non-technical question that I need the answer to before allowing the rebill to take place. I understand that the loss of my avatar and my inventory might be required due to programming constraints and I am prepared to live with that. However, I need to know the following (and this is a corporate question and not a technical question) :

Will your Second Life Version 1 Linden money balance transfer on a one-to-one exchange rate to Second Life Version 2?

If the answer to that is "YES", while I won't be spending any more money in Second Life Version 1 (except for my premium membership), I will ride out this storm. However, if the answer is "NO", I will be cancelling my Premium membership and moving on with my life. With today being 06/25/14, that means you have a month (at least for me) to answer my question if you desire.

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How on earth can a "we are looking forward to make things better" result in so many rumours, assumptions, fearfulness about what will come, wild accusation, misunderstandings and biased opinions ? Of course i think that many of the questions raised here are very valid. However i fear that  all pre assumptions that are discussed here and elsewhere will lead to a lot of confusion and i fear that many wrong decisions will be made based on little more than hot air ... (And yes, i am prepared for getting taxed now for my naivity, i can live with that :matte-motes-sunglasses-3: )

Anyways i personally am already very happy to see SL2 being officially on the timeline. I appreciate that this information was put into the public way before the new product will become available. And i do not fear that all what our team has done in SL and for SL until today might need to be changed from ground up to keep valid in the future.

All i can tell for now is that i (and all the rest of the team) will for sure be ready for departure as soon as we know the destination. And i am pretty sure that we will find ways to migrate our existing ideas and develop new ideas, even if we have to begin at zero again. And all who count on us: expect that we try our best to keep you happy as well.

New challenges... i like :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

And now i turn back to my favorite pet, and wait until the testing begins ... @Ebbe I expect a sparkling experience!

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It goes like this:

Creating a new virtual world...

1. Linden Lab creates new world, announces early about the plan.
-- some people get angry, "you are destroying the present SL with this early announcement!" :smileymad:

2. Linden Lab creates new world, announces only when it's completely ready.
-- some people get angry, "why didn't you announce this earlier? We're totally unprepared for this!" :smileymad:

3. Some other company creates new world, announces it early, or announces when it's ready.
-- nobody gets angry, lots of people are interested and will go and see how it looks. :smileyhappy:

:matte-motes-big-grin:

Personally I'm very glad about this early announcement and I'm very interested about the new world the Lab is making. It was the right time to take the leap into the more advanced future. Thank you for that.

:smileyhappy:

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I think yours is a healthy attitude. :-)

People are afraid of the unknown. When there is a vacum of information, rumors and fears fill it. We need to jam some more exciting possibilities in there instead. They may become reality! Ebbe seems genuine. I look forward to seeing his best efforts.

 

 

 

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Well Ebbe

Let's look at what you have done so far in last few days in your shiny new role as CEO . . . . . .

You have released/leaked and impromptu statement about the future of sl1 and sl2

You have destroyed the confidence in the market literally overnight:

Creators won't create.

Residents won't buy.

One major land company I know in sl lost 42 residents last night.

Inworldz has taken their biggest sign up quota in the last 24 hours ever.

You have caused stress, worry, anxiety.

__________________________________________________________

Of course people are worried about their long term investment in their assets (did you expect them not to be?)

Of course we all know that our personal investments has funded the development of your shiny new games model = sl2

Do you think we like the way your rewarding many of us? ermmm 'NO'

Do you think we like the fragmented way you presented this information void of much detail causing much of the above? ermm 'NO'

You will of course have some huggers to your cause and they like us, are entitled to express their opinion, but as you can see Ebbe, the majority are not hugging you. We don't like it.

LL created a platform, we created the life and the economy, not you.

If we are going to be democratic about this and install the respect that is needed from LL, you could have at least proposed the changes and put it to a public vote, I mean, how could you argue with that for a positive accurate reflection on any changes you want to propose?

Most don't want to drive your shiney new car. They want to carry on using the coding skills they have taken years to learn.

They want their valued creations to continue to exist in the format they made them, serving to help pay for their SL as SL was intended to be used in that respect for those that chose to do so.

This all seems about 'YOU' Ebbe. You want this, you want that, you want the other. I don't see you asking us what we want.

So to me here is your way forward:

Ask us, listen to us, respond to us. Let the people that have funded SL decide it's direction. After all, they are not fools, they know what they want and enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Vinten wrote:

You will of course have some huggers to your cause and they like us, are entitled to express their opinion, but as you can see Ebbe, the majority are not hugging you. We don't like it.

Honestly, all that i can say is: the haters shout louder than the lovers. I talk from direct experience :)

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I hear what your saying Gaia, but honestly, this is not about 'volume' this is about statistics represented by the posts that have been made so far. Count them! I did . . .

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Vinten, speaking from RL experience, never argue with sheep. Your blood pressure will thank you for it. If you are talking about Chung Estates, I am one of those 42. I was going to look at Inworldz especially since that is where the Virtual Attire creator is going to set up her new shop since she left Second Life yesterday.

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Maybe most of those who think more positive about this might have decided its not the time yet to chime in. I mean, there is not much to talk about, before anything substantial is put on the table. And i can see the positive messages here all talk about what already happened in this context (the announcement) and express their curiosity about what will come next.

What we users want has been expressed since 11 years, no need to tell this over and over again. And as i said before, questions are for sure relevant and need answers. But voting and judging can only take place after there is something available for inspection.

So what could be better than waiting for LL to show us what they are going to do ?

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WickedWanda1956 wrote:

Vinten, speaking from RL experience, never argue with sheep. Your blood pressure will thank you for it. If you are talking about Chung Estates, I am one of those 42. I was going to look at Inworldz especially since that is where the Virtual Attire creator is going to set up her new shop since she left Second Life yesterday.

heh, while we are at it, there is a substantial difference between sheep and lemmings ... I personally prefer to be seen as sheep.

Please forgive me for this post. But i could not resist :matte-motes-evil:

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Gaia Clary wrote:

So what could be better than waiting for LL to show us what they are going to do ?

Let's hope they do Gaia. You are another of the most important people in SL, your work has substantially impacted SL. Not sure Prokovy would consider you FIC for AvStar and your youtube tutorials and lump in with the hated opensource people (laughs)

But LL do now need to start to put a positive spin on this, lest the negativity of people like myself infect more.

Me, I've been burnt too many times by the lab since 2006. 

Well, that's enough input from me.

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I have been in sl almost 5 years.You asked us to wait and see what they are going to do.I have been waiting almost 5 years to see what they are going to do.And frankly im not very impressed.And yes I will stick around to see if the Lindens can get it right for once,BUT my money will stay in my pockets.

For me is more than a place to build or to create in,its a place I have made a lot of friends,I created an avie that has experienced a lot in this virtual world.He has become an extension of me in many ways,SL was here for me when I lost my son.So yes I have an emotional tie to this world.And it makes me kinda angry to see how the Lindens do their business

 But this to me is the biggest thing next to the money issue,is the emotional one.And is the one I think the lindens always overlook.We are real people behind the avatars,real feelings,fears etc.To them we are just dollar signs.

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Moving to a whole new platform, all at once, may seem to have technical advantages over grafting new technology into the existing world. That may even be the motivation:

  • Implementing every little thing in SL right now seems to take the developers forever. Some of that is attributable to maintaining interoperability with all that legacy code, and some of it is to retain backwards compatibility with existing content. Or...
  • Software people always think replacing from scratch is a win because any code more than five years old is ugly and convoluted and implemented in Proper Nouns that aren't au courant on resumés.

There are, however, other possible interpretations of why right now it's good to have SL New.0 on the way:

  • To progress further, it's necessary to drop compatibility with a lot of old junk that's in current SL, and just maybe it's seen as less disruptive to let the old world fade out, together with all that content, rather than kill it off with new technology that (say) disappears all prims and sculpties, and next month replaces every existing avatar with a cloud of particles. Or...
  • The land-based revenue model is failing, and maybe they know exactly how much lower tier must be, and how much higher the transaction fees on content purchases, but it would be fatally disruptive to make those changes in the existing world (for some reason; maybe current content creators would rebel, but the Lab may know that they can count on plenty enough new content creators willing to pay a 30% app store commission; or something.) Or....
  • Facebook's purchase of Oculus Rift and intention to develop yet another doomed virtual world tells the Lab that they have plenty of time to get ready for any real explosion in demand for virtual worlds -- there will be years of VR being the Next Big Thing (Again) before anything happens of real business significance -- so just the right amount of time to have their own Next Big Thing on the horizon.
  • Or something altogether else.

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I did not know, but am not surprised, you are pretty smart. :-) (Do you think if we are right we will get a prize?)

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Vince Rallier wrote:

 But this to me is the biggest thing next to the money issue,is the emotional one.And is the one I think the lindens always overlook.We are real people behind the avatars,real feelings,fears etc.To them we are just dollar signs.

I agree fully with you about the emotional part of this. I also can understand how fear and uncertainty can make things turn bad. I too fear the day when i register to that new platform only to see that someone else has already grabbed my avie name. And of course i would so much appreciate to keep my social network intact when stepping over to SL2.

But i can not get angry and frustrated about something that i fear that might possibly or possibly not happen in the future. So maybe there will be a common account for both worlds (which would make a lot of sense after all) and this fear (besides other uncertainties) can eventually be taken away from us.

well, i prefer to wait until i get informed about what the policies will be. Then its time for me to decide my next step. And sure i would be interested to get informed as soon as possible... I just propose to not step away in anger before there is anything to become angry about.

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I think with porting to other grids, the stuff would have to be full perm. T hat would never fly with me. It would not be for me as a creator a moral issue for ppl to take any of my stuff on the same account with the same perms.

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