Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jo Yardley

Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

Recommended Posts

lol.. true. Just a thought. I wouldn't feel at home if there was not some level of greifing in SL2. I think that's part of the SL special sauce ..  the relative freedom to be annoying. Who wants a boring sterile world anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


WickedWanda1956 wrote:

Vinten, speaking from RL experience, never argue with sheep. Your blood pressure will thank you for it. If you are talking about Chung Estates, I am one of those 42. I was going to look at Inworldz especially since that is where the Virtual Attire creator is going to set up her new shop since she left Second Life yesterday.

Arguing with goats is equally futile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Coby Foden wrote:

It goes like this:

Creating a new virtual world...

 

1. Linden Lab creates new world, announces early about the plan.

-- some people get angry, "you are destroying the present SL with this early announcement!" :smileymad:

 

2. Linden Lab creates new world, announces only when it's completely ready.

-- some people get angry, "why didn't you announce this earlier? We're totally unprepared for this!" :smileymad:

 

3. Some other company creates new world, announces it early, or announces when it's ready.

-- nobody gets angry, lots of people are interested and will go and see how it looks. :smileyhappy:

:matte-motes-big-grin:

Personally I'm very glad about this early announcement and I'm very interested about the new world the Lab is making. It was the right time to take the leap into the more advanced future. Thank you for that.

:smileyhappy:

The reason why people are happy in your option 3 is that those other companies dont kill another world when they crete a new one. And by all mens they dont kill THE BEST THERE IS in order to create a "wannabe"... Or should I say "yet another wannabe" coz this whole version 2 thing is just a desperate try to catch up on what others do already .. and this in spite of having that what nobody else has ..

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if youre familiar with the Everquest mmorpg's? Well SOE decided to make EQ2,Everquest was trying to keep up with World of Warcraft that had been out maybe 6 months at the time.So they made this big new shiny upgraded version of Everquest,which by the way,you had to have an upper tier computer to be able to run it at that time.

 But my point to this is that when they announced this new shiny,it immediately splintered the community,when eq2 was released you had 2 EQ's the original and the super new one.So they ended up with 2 games with not a whole lotta people in either one.A lot of the people ran right into the arms of World of Warcraft,leaving the rest divided between two games.

 Everquest was an amazing mmorpg,is where blizzard got most of their ideas.But when SOE decided they had to try and compete with the big boys they sealed their own fate.The lindens have their niche,they should use caution thinking they can compete with the likes of apple or fb.

Maybe they should be happy with what they have,fix it the best they can,do the things they can do for the people to make the ones who left return.I'm just afraid of history repeating itself.They may end up with nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"What we users want has been expressed since 11 years, no need to tell this over and over again."

That´s too easy. SL lost more than half off it´s population since the homestead fiasco happened (which was kidding in comparison to announcing a "better" shiny world where existing content will probably become totally obsolete).

Linden Lab did not manage to recover from this self-made blow. But their aim definately is not (and never was, read your Mitch Kapor) running a niche product for a niche audience (face it, that´s what SL is right now). They want mainstream, more revenue, more profits, more users. They only can achieve this not only by introducing a simplified, much more effective technology which will work on smartphones and tablets primarily, but by leaving the niche stigma per se.

And here we are: What´s "better" there? Is "better" meant as a term for describing  a niche audience performimg their niche activities in a technologically better way? I doubt this.

Lately since SL lost momentum and half of it´s audience years ago almost everything the remaining users "wanted" were wishes proclaimed by a self centered niche audience and everything but maintream.

Its only my suggestion, but for continuing in the SL niche no one would need a complete replacement of what we have right now at all. AndI I doubt that anything truly competitive will ever be developed by someone else for this niche, which not only demands high tech but high attention and sensitive handling. It´s just too stressful and work intensive for a profitmaking company to deal with all the self-proclamed godesses and gods of the virtual universe and their moods and self centered opinions, only to keep things going in a somewhat profitable way.

So here comes a clear cut. It will and must be a clear cut for Linden Lab (IMHO), but i doubt that it will please the niche audience overly, including you and me, including the ones who favor this cut out of their self centered niche view. Second Life 2 most probably will not be like Second Life 1. It will be much more mainstream, which will include licensed content creation, a lot of painful restrictions and a much less bloated (and capable) client software for tablet compatibility. It will focus on what supposedly sells the best, like the virtual dress up (but never down) game, will avoid any kind of what we know as "adult" or "fetish" content and roleplay, will have a lot less salt and pepper but more family compatible looks and content. It will be connected to social media by default and lose a lot of it´s sexyness. It most probably will be compete with browser chat games like IMVU - and NOT with SL 1. It will not even carry the name "Second Life" (my ten cents).

I guess the plan was and is to let the Second Life "lifestyle" niche exist for while and hope for dramaless extinction born out of extended boredom while transporting mainstream compatible SL creators and their mainstream compatible, not ripped from somewhere/templated products (maybe 5-10 percent of the content offered on the MP) over to the new platform for familily entertainment. Family entertainment isn´t bad, i like the Simpsons!

Not a bad plan, and most probably the only one of value for Linden Lab as a company, but i am pretty sure that it will be painful for all these who neither like the Simpsons nor Disney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Coby Foden wrote:

It goes like this:

Creating a new virtual world...

 

1. Linden Lab creates new world, announces early about the plan.

-- some people get angry, "you are destroying the present SL with this early announcement!" :smileymad:

 

 

 

Well, certainly some people here have displayed anger. 

In my case, it's more a case of being "worried" than angry. I can foresee -- in fact, it seems to be happening right now, as we speak here -- a rather precipitous exit of the "angry" from Second Life over the next month or so, plateauing out but with a pretty constant rate of attrition until we approach the opening of the new VW, when the exodus becomes, again, more dramatic.

My concern is that there won't be a whole lot left of Second Life by the time the new VW is ready to go, largely because the exodus will mostly be occurring within the ranks of landowners, sim builders, and content creators. There is simply going to be much less to see, do, and buy in SL as we move forward, and that is going to impact on the general population.

There is a fourth option that you neglect to mention: "Linden Lab creates new world, but keeps it under wraps until it is in a position to authoratively answer important questions about the new VW, and its relationship with the old." This would have been the best option, because, frankly, it is fear of the unknown that is driving a great deal of the dismay and anger at the moment.

Unfortunately, that horse has bolted. Hopefully LL is expediting its modeling such that they will be in a position sooner rather than later to answer the vital questions that are being asked here and elsewhere.

In the meantime, we'll just continue to cling by our fingernails, and hope that, in the end, it was all worth it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


LaskyaClaren wrote:


There is a fourth option that you neglect to mention:
"Linden Lab creates new world, but keeps it under wraps until it is in a position to authoratively answer important questions about the new VW, and its relationship with the old."
 

 

Precisely.  The only remedy now is to nail down and announce what can be said to be true of the New World, if only provisionally. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. 

This is why I mentioned expediting their modeling and planning, which I hope (and suspect) they are doing.

It should be possible to produce reasonably full answers to many if not most of these questions this early on: surely they are not making this up as they go along?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this:-

"There is a fourth option that you neglect to mention: "Linden Lab creates new world, but keeps it under wraps until it is in a position to authoratively answer important questions about the new VW, and its relationship with the old." This would have been the best option, because, frankly, it is fear of the unknown that is driving a great deal of the dismay and anger at the moment."

Basically the same as i have said, it was an amateurish and ill conceived action in my opinion!

No official statement on the LL website or the SL blog as of yet, I would think damage control would be top priority right now

Phoebe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Vince Rallier wrote:

I don't know if youre familiar with the Everquest mmorpg's? Well SOE decided to make EQ2,Everquest was trying to keep up with World of Warcraft that had been out maybe 6 months at the time.So they made this big new shiny upgraded version of Everquest,which by the way,you had to have an upper tier computer to be able to run it at that time.

 But my point to this is that when they announced this new shiny,it immediately splintered the community,when eq2 was released you had 2 EQ's the original and the super new one.
So they ended up with 2 games with not a whole lotta people in either one.

Exactly!  How does anyone see any alternative to this?  Seriously? I would like to be in denial about it but cant figure out how.

 

This is why the assurance from Ebbe that SL will be around for "years and years" is alarming. 

And that's not even counting my anxiety about how I am going to run two businesses for "years and years" when I barely have time to run the one I have. (I am old school and actually MAKE the stuff I sell, and actually do prompt customer service.)

I am not a "hater", I just would like to know this is being addressed, and so far I have not heard a word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have been given at least 2 years notice so...

1. Creators have nothing to complain about.

We spend a little time making something once and then sell copies of it it for a long time afterwards. We make a bundle for our efforts on our creations, and we have at least 2 more years of earning from them too. So we may need to do much of the work again. So what? We've already had plenty of financial rewards from our efforts.

Ebbe said that creators will be the main ones, or something like that. Right now, at least 2 years in advance, we don't know what will still be useable in SL2, but I truly believe that we will know well in advance of the launch, so we will be able to prepare for it.

 

2. Buyers have nothing to complain about.

Whatever is bought now will work for at least 2 more years. I see nothing wrong with that. Most of it will have stopped being used long before 2 years is up, anyway. Buyers need not concern themselves until the time is approaching, and only then reduce or stop their buying..

 

3. Land owners

Those who bought sims from LL may be on the wrong end of SL2. Tier is fine, because it will all be used, but the initial cost may be a problem. However, LL may allocate land in SL2 so that the owners can just continue with tier, or with whatever system they use.

 

Overall

I don't see any cause for complaint from any section of the community at this stage. I do see cause for some concern for those who bought land from LL though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Pamela Galli wrote:


Vince Rallier wrote:

I don't know if youre familiar with the Everquest mmorpg's? Well SOE decided to make EQ2,Everquest was trying to keep up with World of Warcraft that had been out maybe 6 months at the time.So they made this big new shiny upgraded version of Everquest,which by the way,you had to have an upper tier computer to be able to run it at that time.

 But my point to this is that when they announced this new shiny,it immediately splintered the community,when eq2 was released you had 2 EQ's the original and the super new one.
So they ended up with 2 games with not a whole lotta people in either one.

Exactly!  How does anyone see any alternative to this?  Seriously? I would like to be in denial about it but cant figure out how.

Yes. I see it going a bit different to this but it would depend on one thing - how shiny SL2 is. If it's very shiny as compared to SL1, then I see most of the population going over to it. Maybe not instantly, but over a relatively short period of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't comment on your first and third points as I am neither a creator or land owner; however, I will comment on your second point. I STRONLY disagree with your second point. Anything you buy now is wasted money. I simply don't understand why the concept to get something new each year is so important. Maybe I am an old goat but I honestly and sincerly don't understand this concept. New does not mean better and I simply have to point to Microsoft operating systems to give an example that most of us can actually agree on. Did anyone like Vista over XP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Pamela Galli wrote:


Vince Rallier wrote:

I don't know if youre familiar with the Everquest mmorpg's? Well SOE decided to make EQ2,Everquest was trying to keep up with World of Warcraft that had been out maybe 6 months at the time.So they made this big new shiny upgraded version of Everquest,which by the way,you had to have an upper tier computer to be able to run it at that time.

 But my point to this is that when they announced this new shiny,it immediately splintered the community,when eq2 was released you had 2 EQ's the original and the super new one.
So they ended up with 2 games with not a whole lotta people in either one.

Exactly!  How does anyone see any alternative to this?  Seriously? I would like to be in denial about it but cant figure out how.

 

This is why the assurance from Ebbe that SL will be around for "years and years" is alarming. 

And that's not even counting my anxiety about how I am going to run two businesses for "years and years" when I barely have time to run the one I have. (I am old school and actually MAKE the stuff I sell, and actually do prompt customer service.)

I am not a "hater", I just would like to know this is being addressed, and so far I have not heard a word.

With a roleplaying game you'll logically always be in one role and living in one "world", so nobody was going to be on BOTH versions of Everquest.

With an unstructured virtual world there's no reason why somebody couldn't be on multiple platforms doing different things in each one - there's no reason to have to "choose." If Linden Lab owns both platforms there's also no reason for two different administrative structures. Both worlds could also easily run on the same type of computer and networking hardware.

Actually the Lab already runs two different "worlds" - the main grid and the beta grid. Theresa Tennyson exists in both worlds. (Interestingly enough, she looks quite different in the two worlds because Beta Theresa is actually a character in Main-Grid Theresa's dream, specifically her grandmother reimagined as a sort of action-movie heroine. Yes, I tend to overthink things.) The Beta grid is frequently running different software from the main grid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't have to be full perm! So how you find your whole inventory in the beta grid , so you could also find it in SL2 under the same avatar name .. if LL wants it and if its technically possible.

Remember, all belongs to LL anyway so it makes no difference where they put it .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well in some VERY perverse way I am enjoying all the screaming and ranting of folks -- especially ones (not necessarily on this thread) who haven't bothered to even read or listen to any of the "official" info and those that HAVE somehow and are rewriting it.

AND why I wrote that "walking a fine line" statement when I obviously knew  it was wrong -- well I put it down to a long day of reading comments and complaints.

I am VERY happy to finally have that other shoe drop.

AND I can take my very nice new BAR with me in case there can be a MOSP over there (inside joke folks). So as a CONSUMER I am happy anyway.

Who knows? So long in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


MBeatrix wrote:

I don't know what is going to happen, but I know that with a few words Mr. Altberg may have shot to death an economy that took years to be built and thrive. 

Agree!


MBeatrix wrote:

I will try to keep doing in SL what I've always done in my two and an half years in it, but I won't be buying any more products that may or may not be portable to the new platform. 

I agree, but they won't tell us - yet - what products maybe portable to the new platform.

 

 


MBeatrix wrote:

We may lose part of our assets, but that's ok, it's only virtual goods. What the Lab will be losing isn't something virtual, though — I do believe they will start losing quite some real money. 

I do mind losing virtual goods, I payed for them, and don't tell me they were cheap, some really were not! And losing my own creations is something that they cannot ever repay me for.

 

 


MBeatrix wrote:

About moving to some other platform and start all over again... Well, just not for me — if I ever intended to do that, I'd already had moved to any other existing grid.

Same here, but that means we also don't have to worry on what products can be moved to the new platform. It simply means we will be held hostage in old sl and eventually it will close down. Does anyone still really believe it will not? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


WickedWanda1956 wrote:

I won't comment on your first and third points as I am neither a creator or land owner; however, I will comment on your second point. I STRONLY disagree with your second point. Anything you buy now is wasted money. I simply don't understand why the concept to get something new each year is so important. Maybe I am an old goat but I honestly and sincerly don't understand this concept. New does not mean better and I simply have to point to Microsoft operating systems to give an example that most of us can actually agree on. Did anyone like Vista over XP?

If you're interested in permanance ANYTHING you "buy" in ANY virtual world, EVER, is a waste of money. People talk about their "investment" in their Second Life inventories - seriously? An imaginary house on somebody else's computer is an "investment"? Awesome toy, yes, but investment? Warren Buffetts they ain't.

You can go to another grid. But I've got news for you - whether you lose your "possessions" because the provider changes things or because the founder says, "Sorry guys, but I can't pay the bills anymore - let's hold virtual hands and sing "Kumbaya" one more time before the guy comes to turn off the power," they're equally gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


WickedWanda1956 wrote:

I won't comment on your first and third points as I am neither a creator or land owner; however, I will comment on your second point. I STRONLY disagree with your second point. Anything you buy now is wasted money. I simply don't understand why the concept to get something new each year is so important. Maybe I am an old goat but I honestly and sincerly don't understand this concept. New does not mean better and I simply have to point to Microsoft operating systems to give an example that most of us can actually agree on. Did anyone like Vista over XP?

The thing is, you buy things you want to have pleasure from right now. You don't buy things as an investment for the distant future. If you can't get enough pleasure from the tiny amounts of RL money that things cost, then stop buying now. SL is a pleasurable passtime/hobby. If you think of it as such, because that's exactly what it is, you'll see that the tiny amounts of money that items cost are an extremely small price to pay for the pleasurable hobby/passtime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Pamela Galli wrote:

I think with porting to other grids, the stuff would have to be full perm. T hat would never fly with me. It would not be for me as a creator a moral issue for ppl to take any of my stuff on the same account with the same perms.

 

I am not all that techie (always did the pretty part of web work) but I think it would be possible for The Lab (since it legally can) to simply MATCH (or perhaps transfer in case of no copy items - who knows) inventories on the new grid.

What "I" would shoot for (JUST CONJECTURE FOLKS - I HAVE NO INSIDE INFO) would be to let folks keep their names, contacts, groups etc as much as possible AND their inventories (mostly mesh things and by then most of the good stuff people have will likely be mesh). So people wouldn't need to "port" their own stuff over at all. THIS WOULD BE A HUGE HELP TO THE CONTENT CREATORS THAT WANT TO MOVE THINGS OVER. HINT HINT.

Now the problem I foresee is once again a moral one.  Could I still be Chic Aeon in SL 1.0 AND Chic Aeon in SL 2.0? Could I have have the same inventories (albeit smaller in SL 2 for things that wouldn't be supported (like sculpts I hope)?    

Personally, I would like that. MORALLY I think that no copy items should either be on one grid or another, not both. That's ME though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We obviously fundamentaly disagree. But you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. The difference in this situation is that the owner has said that the end is coming in two years (I am sorry there is NO way they keep two games up at the same time, they have enough problems now with just one). I want to thank you for your comments and wish you well but I am just going to wait and see if I get an answer about transfer of Lindens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil Deakins wrote:

The thing is, you buy things you want to have pleasure from right now. You don't buy things as an investment for the distant future. If you can't get enough pleasure from the tiny amounts of RL money that things cost, then stop buying now. SL is a pleasurable passtime/hobby. If you think of it as such, because that's exactly what it is, you'll see that the tiny amounts of money that items cost are an extremely small price to pay for the pleasurable hobby/passtime.

I wholeheartedly disagree. You buy something, no matter what the costs, it's yours. You create something, the copyright is yours. You build a community or a business over many years, investing in buying or renting expensive land - I do think the price and tier of land is ridiculous in sl - that's not just a few dollars or euros, that thousands of dollars or euros over the years. And we will not be able to move it to the new 'platform'? Do they seriously expect us to rebuild our own creations all over again? I own 16 galleries in sl with thousands of artworks from many artists. Do they really think I'm going to upload all images again and frame them again in their brave new world? What about groups, can they be 'transferred' or will we lose all our customers in the process as well? Yay, we can make a new start... sorry, won't go there, and I know many will not. I think SL may seriously have to reconsider their plans. They may have shot themselves in the foot big time with this. People will stop buying already now, in world and sl marketplace both, untill they know what they can keep or transfer. Every sl business will suffer from this and LL will suffer the most, financially. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was not retired I would agree with you but I am on a very fixed budget with literally all pennies accounted for. So it is not tiny amounts of real money to me. I came into SL after retirement to interact with people and not just veg out like my parents did. And I am sorry but distant future and two years are not the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 part that continuously bothers me, and really the only thing I can fault Ebbe on, is his TOS responses, which he doesn't seem to take seriously. When the CEO doesn't take my IP serious, I have good reasons to be nervous. It is not enough to say the company has no intention. By creating this new world, LL has seriously missed the fact that we aren't forced to join. The ONLY reason they got away with the current language in the TOS, is because we, and our stuff, were already here. We were essentially forced to agree. If LL wants their transition to the new SL to be smooth, then they better start taking our IP seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...